Does God care if I'm a vegetarian?

[4elise]

I think this is an area where’s it’s high time we humbly admit a bit of a moral blind spot, just as we have yet to do with smoking. (E.g., why should we Catholics fret so much more about an adolescent boy self-pleasuring than people addicting and killing themselves through smoking? I speak as one who witnessed both my mom and dad slowly suffocate themselves to their deaths via cigarette-caused emphysema.)

I could go on and on with sad examples from our history…tolerating slavery, Jew hating, belittling women, etc., but my point is that despite our link to the one true Church, we can nevertheless indeed have blind spots. Nostra culpa, nostra maxima culpa!

Both Pope JP II was, and our current pope is, each a great lover of animals. How could any friend of God not be? Google John Paul II’s cat dream. Pope Benedict spoke very clearly about the abuse of animals in factory farms and in the creation of foie gras (a French “delicacy” popular in Europe, Quebec, and in “fine” eateries here and abroad: it’s produced by force feeding geese and ducks by tubes forced down their throats).
See goveg.com/f-popebenedictxvi.asp

I can understand starving people eating meat if it’s all they have access to, but in developed countries there is a plethora of alternatives that are actually far healthier than eating meat. Next time you’re in a good bookstore, just peruse the vegetarian cook books and take a look at Vegetarian Times magazine that features great international veg recipes by top chefs. If you think you’re limited to rabbit food, VT is a great place to get informed.

There is also an entire side issue of the enormous impact that the raising of cattle has on the availability world grain and fresh water supplies, plus its huge carbon footprint (supposedly fifth in rate among cars, factories, et al.) that Al Gore hasn’t peeped a bit about.

I can’t help thinking it may be a form of gluttony for one to insist on eating meat from factory farm slaughtered animals basically because “it tastes good”–back to the issue of self-pleasuring?
By buying such meat, we continue the demand for it, and thus continue the inhumane treatment of God’s creatures. That’s where our moral culpability kicks in.

:thumbsup:This was so well said… and exactly the reasons I moved to a vegan diet about 2 years ago - (didn’t find it too hard, I love beans and nuts so get plenty of protein!)

 

[jen_fla]

hi cpl ferro.

i’ve been a vegetarian since '92 and incorporated occasional white fish into my diet many years later. i share your same frustration at the comments people make about this issue. it’s like if you care too much about animals then you must somehow be deficient in your compassion towards humans… or be a new ager… or a judgmental interloper coming to take their whopper away… or a commie…

the Church clearly states to not focus all your time and money on animals as you could be putting that effort towards fellow human beings, but making compassionate decisions about our purchases (within reason) is something we are asked to do.

i gave up meat for health reasons and then discovered the cruelty aspect of certain practices of factory farming.

bottom line is eating meat displeasing to God? no.

is seeking out meat/dairy from a supplier that does not make the animal suffer unnecessarily an act of kindness that the Church teaches? yes.

the Lord knows there are gray areas and times when you just don’t have the information at hand to know where the meat came from, but when you do have the ability to make an informed choice in shopping… well i just hope more people do so.

 

[jen_fla]

1. Animals do not have souls.
2. Animals do not have free will.
3. Animals glorify God perpetually in their being.

This is a simple topic. Just as they recently mentioned it is sinful to detrimentally effect the environment (such as buying a hummer, or a bulldozer and driving through a rainforest on your way to work… just an example ) , animals are to be respected for their being. However, we were created with all dominance over them. There is nothing wrong with being vegetarian! God created all we see and can know. Ask yourself this question : Do you think it is necessary to eat everything God created? We have an appendix, obviously long ago the Human Race enjoyed tree bark, or other cellulose-filled treats. However, we have changed from that. Are we wrong that we don’t use that part of our body anymore? No! And i think to voluntarily give up meat for the glory of God, even if it means to not eat… lets say Dog’s because of the Michael Vick deal. However, i think that instances where chickens are possibly cooked alive there is nothing wrong with that because we are eating it, and they would die regardless. They have no souls, so when they die nothing happens. All dog’s do not go to heaven.

I am not a theologian, or philosopher though, so what i say is not sound. But I think that it’s a cool thing to ponder!

God bless you all

the Church teaches that animals indeed have souls, just not immortal ones. that being said, you really don’t see a problem with unnecessary cruelty? there are people that eat cows. fine. we as humans have the capability and moral obligation to kill that cow in the quickest manner possible. now i suppose one could drag out the cow’s death cutting out chunk by chunk while it is still alive in the most cruel tortuous manner and that would be ok with you, because hey it’s going to die anyway!!! please change your heart on this!

 

[mojave19]

Why would anyone define themselves by what they eat or what they do not eat?

I am not my stomach. I am myself. It is my soul which matters.

God bless

I doubt if anyone is “defining” oneself by saying he or she is a vegetarian-- or allergic to penicillin or a tuba player or widget collector. They’re just descriptions that people apply to themselves.

 

[ConallCernach]

the Church teaches that animals indeed have souls, just not immortal ones. that being said, you really don’t see a problem with unnecessary cruelty? there are people that eat cows. fine. we as humans have the capability and moral obligation to kill that cow in the quickest manner possible. now i suppose one could drag out the cow’s death cutting out chunk by chunk while it is still alive in the most cruel tortuous manner and that would be ok with you, because hey it’s going to die anyway!!! please change your heart on this!

Animals do have souls, they have 2/3 kinds of souls that people have. People have what is called the Intellectual Soul. But still, animals may be used for food (vegetables have 1/3 of the kinds of soul that people do). But because carrots have one type of soul does not mean that we cannot eat them. The same goes for animals. We should be nice to them, but they can still be food.

Pax

 

[jen_fla]

Animals do have souls, they have 2/3 kinds of souls that people have. People have what is called the Intellectual Soul. But still, animals may be used for food (vegetables have 1/3 of the kinds of soul that people do). But because carrots have one type of soul does not mean that we cannot eat them. The same goes for animals. We should be nice to them, but they can still be food.

Pax

i don’t know about the math, but i do agree with you. we can eat meat, but it is not ok to treat the animals in a cruel manner before they are killed for our benefit.

i think if most people witnessed how the animals are treated they would be greatly disturbed and really have to stop and think about what transpired to get that food to their plate.

 

[AHapka]

In this society one can avoid eating both meat and plants and avoid killing anything. It is entirely possible to live on nutritional supplements. Modern chemistry has allowed us to synthesize all of the chemicals necessary to maintain human life.

If you truly want to take the position of not killing anything, that is the appropriate path to take.

In Jesus’s day, fishing was accomplished by throwing a net into the water and hauling in a bunch of fish to eat. Those fish were allowed to die on the deck of the boat by suffocating. They were pulled from the water and died because they couldn’t get any oxygen. That’s not a nice way to go.

But yet, Jesus said to Peter “Put out into deep water and lower your nets for a catch.” So obviously he allowed it in order to feed men.

The life of a human being is worth many sparrows.

 

[jen_fla]

i would hardly equate a fish suffocating within a matter of hours with the agony some animals endure for months.

why the sarcasm? if you want to kill a cow, bear, deer etc, for food, fine. we have the means to kill them quickly. why all the snarky comments? man has a right to ride and use horses as well, but who would defend neglect or an abusive owner?

what is so hard to understand about showing compassion towards an animal that is not a threat to you? most would do it for their cats and dogs, so why not a pig?

"If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men."

St. Francis of Assisi

 

[ConallCernach]

i don’t know about the math, but i do agree with you. we can eat meat, but it is not ok to treat the animals in a cruel manner before they are killed for our benefit.

i think if most people witnessed how the animals are treated they would be greatly disturbed and really have to stop and think about what transpired to get that food to their plate.

Going by Thomas Aquinas’ teachings on the soul there are three types:

Vegetative
Rational
Intellectual

Humans are the only creature to have the three. Animals have two, and plants have one.

Pax

 

[AHapka]

i would hardly equate a fish suffocating within a matter of hours with the agony some animals endure for months.

why the sarcasm? if you want to kill a cow, bear, deer etc, for food, fine. we have the means to kill them quickly. why all the snarky comments? man has a right to ride and use horses as well, but who would defend neglect or an abusive owner?

what is so hard to understand about showing compassion towards an animal that is not a threat to you? most would do it for their cats and dogs, so why not a pig?

"If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men."

St. Francis of Assisi

I’m not being sarcastic. I’m saying to be a vegetarian for the reason that some animals are treated wrongly doesn’t make sense. That would be like not going to an OB/GYN because some perform abortions. A person can easily eat meat that has been humanely treated, such companies widely advertise that their animals are free range or humanely treated.

A far better course of action would be to try to correct the treatment of these animals. I do show compassion. I fully agree that animal cruely should be a felony. And I would arrest any such perpetrators within my jurisdiction. Our department does arrest people for that, and our DA’s prosecute such cases.

I do maintain that if you think it is wrong to kill animals for food because you shouldn’t kill anything, then it’s also wrong to kill plants for the same reason. Especially when you can survive on synthetic nutritional supplements.

 

[Highwayhound]

Especially when you can survive on synthetic nutritional supplements.

But can you put a synthetic nutritional supplement on a stick and roast it over a campfire while bicycling along the Pacific coast?

Would the synthetic nutritional supplements make a good shish kabob?

I am pretty sure my fruit salad would appear less than appetizing if made with synthetic nutritional supplements. I like making the kind where the watermelon rind is used as a serving bowl.

I see nothing but darkness if I were to go the road of only eating synthetic nutritional supplements.

God bless

 

[jen_fla]

I’m not being sarcastic. I’m saying to be a vegetarian for the reason that some animals are treated wrongly doesn’t make sense. That would be like not going to an OB/GYN because some perform abortions. A person can easily eat meat that has been humanely treated, such companies widely advertise that their animals are free range or humanely treated.

A far better course of action would be to try to correct the treatment of these animals. I do show compassion. I fully agree that animal cruely should be a felony. And I would arrest any such perpetrators within my jurisdiction. Our department does arrest people for that, and our DA’s prosecute such cases.

I do maintain that if you think it is wrong to kill animals for food because you shouldn’t kill anything, then it’s also wrong to kill plants for the same reason. Especially when you can survive on synthetic nutritional supplements.

well i agree with your last post. i am sorry i assumed you were being sarcastic, however, i never once said it was wrong to kill animals for food only that you should avoid meat/dairy that comes from a supplier that has a poor track record of cruelty. so we are in agreement.

as for me, i have now gotten so far away from the texture of it, that i just couldn’t go back to eating it. even on the rare occasions i have some mild white fish, sometimes i admit it grosses me out. it’s strange i have moved in that direction because ribs and cheeseburgers used to be my favorite foods. i do not want to go on a statin at my young age, but i do have to limit dietary cholesterol as my body just doesn’t make enough of hdl. and there are plenty of studies that show the medditerrainian diet to be the healthiest.

peace be to you too. http://www.pic4ever.com/images/4869.gif

 

[4elise]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=326900

I’ve started another thread that I hope goes a bit deeper for those who want to consider more than just suffering animals as a reason to consider a strict vegetarian diet - I want to have a real discussion on how this choice can be influenced by Catholic Social Teaching…
Would like to invite you to read that and give your feedback here too…