Does God change?

[JohnCS]

Yes that is what I think too. In my example of the Old versus the New testaments, it is God Himself, in the Person of Jesus, who does the teaching to change the perception and it is the hugest historical change known right?

Is it agreed that it is a huge cumulative change between the 2 testaments?
If so, would not the Jews have perhaps legitimately thought: “These are the revealed truths God gave to Moses. This is God’s teaching. He would not have allowed us to misunderstand them. This Jesus is teaching things that directly contradict what God gave Moses.”

Do I go too far in saying the teachings of Jesus contradict the teachings of Moses? Should it be phrased differently. Sure seems different to me in lots of significant ways way beyond changing a few jots and tittle as they used to say.

No you do not go to far; there was the old covenant, and then Jesus gave us the New covenant. Old and new are not the same, there are going to be some contradictions.

 

[whatischarity]

…and there are no duly commissioned parties who can override God.

My point is that God has overridden God. If we agree that the New Testament is radically different, then we agree that God has overridden God. I agree that although God and truth do not change, our perception of God and truth can change. I agree wholeheartedly that Jesus, being God, had the ability and authority to do this and we should be grateful to Him for the fuller understanding He gave us. I believe that Jesus had the authority to clarify truth to us. I believe His duly commisioned parties, the apostles and their successors under Peter have the authority of Christ and the protection of the Holy Spirit to continue to clarify the truth.

I guess the above explanation shows that I am opposed to those who believe nothing should change because “God doesn’t change” or “Truth doesn’t change”. Sure, idiots shouldn’t tinker; but the authorized parties have the authority from Christ and are guided by the Holy Spirit so who am I to question their ability when the successors of the apostles speak in unison with the Pope in teaching the universal faithful.

 

[whatischarity]

This FACT plays into the scheme of God’s [perfect] planning and ties the introduction of the Blessed Trinity [a concept that even today ones struggles to explain and comprehend] with The Birth and life of God on earth, in order for God Himself to make evident this mystery, and be available to explain God’s eternal plan for humanities personal salvation and redemption.

I especially like this explanation above coupled with your logic that the common person in ancient times was not prepared mentally for a more accurate view of God.

Do you think that the human view of God is now as accurate as possible as far as we humans can possible comphrehend?

 

[grannymh]

My point is that God has overridden God. If we agree that the New Testament is radically different …

May I point out that Jesus was obedient to the Father.

Standing back from this discussion, it seems that an overview of the Old and New Testaments show differences in minor areas. But, the two sections are not really radically different. For example, consider Melchizedek as a prefiguration of Jesus Christ. The New Testament fulfills the promise made to Adam and Eve. Jesus carries out the will of the Father. The prophesies of Isaiah are fulfilled.

The Bible divided against itself cannot stand.

Blessings,
granny

John 3: 16 & 17

 

[whatischarity]

We are going to have to disagree and I am ok with that an dI thank you for your opinion on the differences between the Old and New Testaments.

I am reading the Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis and there is a sentence that goes something like: “God knows us better than we will ever know Him.”

 

[frantony]

Let me try again. As I understand it, the Jewish religion had the Old Testament and from that they perceived God in a completely monotheistic sense and Judaism, along with Islam, continue to do that. Since we Christians accept the teaching of Jesus Christ, we now accept that God is One but we also have been enlightened to know that there are three distinct though equal Persons in the one God. Is that not a big theological change dealing with the nathure of God?

Another example would be in the Gospel where Jesus is talking about divorce. He states that the Mosaic Law allows divorce due to the hardness of the hearts of the Jewish people. Jesus went on to proclaim that what God has joined together let no man put asunder. Thus He made something that was allowable by God under the Old Testament something not allowed by God under the New Testament. Is that not a major moral change?

Other examples would be the Old Testament had certain foods that were unclean and this has been expurged in the New Testament. Circumcision was obliged under the Old Testament. Weren’t Gentiles excluded under the Old Testament?

Where I am coming with all this is that I have been around people who look poorly on the teachings of Vatican Council II and dislike many aspects such as the priest facing the people, receiving the Holy Eucharist in the hand, women not wearing veils, less reverence during the Holy Sacrifice, the Novus Ordo form as a whole. My perception is that these changes are very minor compared to the changes that Jesus made. Additionally, Jesus gave the apostles and their descendants certain perogatives to make changes. The bottom line is that, although God does not change, how humans perceive Him and our duty toward Him have changed radically as manifested by the New Testament. I am just using this fact as a precedent to demonstrate the reasonableness of Pope and the hierarchy in union with him, under the protection of the Holy Spirit, to make changes to the rites and rituals of the Roman Catholic Church.

I hope that helps. Thanks for helping me out here. I definitely am not attacking the Roman Catholic Church!

I feel, that if you look at God as a Father, and men as his children, you should be able to see that it is not God that needs changes, but we, the children.
Since we are still children, and not yet adults, we are still growing, and changing.

When we were infants, we were fed only milk. We were given simple instructions like "Do not touch this - Do not touch that electric socket, etc.
As we grew older, the same father who forbade us from touching an electric plug, told us to plug a T.V to a socket and switch it ON. The same father who told us to be home everyday before nightfall may ask us to go out and get some vegetables from the market at 8 PM.

But who is actually changing? Is it the father, or the child?

 

[whatischarity]

So mankind has been given the Old Testament and then the New Testament that clarified the nature of God through the teachings of Jesus. Should a Roman Catholic expect further clarification and enlightenment into the nature or God and the obligation of mankind toward its Creator or do we now have the the most complete knowledge possible this side of the grave?

In other words, maybe the Old Testament Jews thought the Mesiah would fundamentally retain the Mosaic Law because the Mosaic Law was the cornerstone of the Old Testament. Maybe they thought that they already had the complete knowledge of God and their expected obligation to Him all spelled out in detail through the Law. Maybe this caused tem to completely miss the Messiah when He came. Is there something there for us to learn in regards to ritual versus spirit (or work based obligation versus spiritual concept)?