Does God except Muslim worship?

[rose_kelly]

Nothing would ever convince me of this. There is no commonality between the Christian and Islamic faiths. As another poster has pointed out, Jesus said “No man cometh unto the Father but by me”. How then can anyone who does not acknowledge Jesus pray to the Father?

And then there is your own reference, John 3:16.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

This passage alone makes it clear that it is necessary to believe in the Son.

What “No Salvation Outside the Church” Means. catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

 

[JewishCatholic]

Okay I’m trying to have a reasonable discussion supported by evidence, and you seem intend on yelling insults.

Don’t worship the same God is what I said. And you have not presented any evidence to the contrary. As for “one way ticket to hell”, your words not mine.

I’m the one quoting scripture and Church documents, which you have yet to refute. I have called nothing a lie.

The Trinity is not a man made phenomenon.

Matthew 28:16-20

Again, when did I say anyone had a one way ticket to hell. I did not say that. Stop putting words in my mouth and then saying its disgusting. I did not even mention the word “hell” or anything to that effect.

I believe you were the one who started the personal insults and condemnations my friend.

I will provide evidence to you:

John 14:28
Matthew 27:46
Matthew 3:13-17

Article 9 Paragraph 3
Lines 840-845

When you say jews and muslims worship a false idol and can’t have simalarities with us you imply they will go to hell for not believing in Jesus Christ.

 

[peter26]

Alright let’s have a look.

John 14:28

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

I really don’t know what significance to the discussion you take from this. That the Father is greater than the Son? Well certainly in Jesus human state Jesus did not have the full knowledge that the Father possesses.

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Mark 13:32

But again, I don’t see how that affects the matter under discussion?

Matthew 27:46

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

This was said by Jesus to fulfill the scriptures, specifically Psalm 22 which starts

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Again, what’s your point?

Matthew 3:13-17

Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

This actually demonstrates the nature of the Trinity quite well. Jesus was of course present, the Father spoke and the Spirit was also present. Beyond that, I see no relevance.

All you have established by these quotes is that the Father and the Son are not the same entity. I agree. But what does that prove?

I believe you were the one who started the personal insults and condemnations my friend.

When? I may have said something you disagree with, but I have not insulted or attacked anyone. I have said Muslims don’t worship the same god. That is a point of view, not an attack.

When you say jews and muslims worship a false idol and can’t have simalarities with us you imply they will go to hell for not believing in Jesus Christ.

Again you put words into my mouth. False idol? When did I say that. There are similarities between Christianity and Judaism certainly, but similarities does not equal same god. I did not even mention hell. Please stop condemning me for things I did not say.

 

[JewishCatholic]

The bible quotes I provided for you all demostrate the fact that Jesus is inferior to the Father. And that the father is the supreme being and created Jesus.

My questions to you are.

Is Jesus the one who talked to the all the prophets in the old testament or was that “the father” or a false idol?

If yes, then muslims and jews do believe in the same God as us.

Sir I am not putting words in your mouth. Just because I use synomons doesn’t mean I did not interpret the jist of what you were trying to say. Let me ask you directly since you seem to be unwilling to take a stance here.

Do you believe, like me, the pope, jesus, and most catholics that Jews, Muslims, and Christains all believe in the same God?

P.S. I love how you ignored my evidence from the pope and the Catholic Catcheism

 

[JewishCatholic]

What “No Salvation Outside the Church” Means. catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

I will trust pope francis for anaylisis of scripture and for church law, not jim blackburn.

 

[JewishCatholic]

“worship the one living and merciful God, and call upon him in prayer"

Pope Francis on muslims.

 

[peter26]

The bible quotes I provided for you all demostrate the fact that Jesus is inferior to the Father. And that the father is the supreme being and created Jesus.

Hmm.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:1

Jesus was there right at the beginning. The Nicene Creed also tells us that Jesus was “begotten of the Father before all time”. So i’m not so sure you are right about this.

Is Jesus the one who talked to the all the prophets in the old testament or was that “the father” or a false idol?

It was the Father, at least as far as we know. But at that point, Jesus had not been revealed to the world. No one could have acknowledged or worshiped Him.

Sir I am not putting words in your mouth. Just because I use synomons doesn’t mean I did not interpret the jist of what you were trying to say. Let me ask you directly since you seem to be unwilling to take a stance here.

I understand, but I don’t think you have necessarily interpreted everything I have said in the way it was meant.

Do you believe, like me, the pope, jesus, and most catholics that Jews, Muslims, and Christains all believe in the same God?

Well that is quite a loaded question to be honest. I do not believe that Christians and Muslims worship the same god. The reason is that they do not acknowledge Jesus as being god. I do certainly accept that all Christians (bar maybe one or two cults) believe in the same god. I do not accept that Jesus believed that everyone worships the same god, and by saying “no one comes to the Father except through me”, Jesus appeared to be saying the exact opposite!

 

[JewishCatholic]

My apologies for calling you stupid earlier in the discussion. I was wrong and out of line.

1. So was jesus just doing nothing in heaven? Did he disagree with the Fathers violent tendencies? Jesus came to fulfill the old testament, why cant the father do that? Do you believe the father is superior?
2. If The father and the son are both God surely those who believe in the Father believe in the same God as we do. (Jews, and to a less extant Muslims)

 

[peter26]

My apologies for calling you stupid earlier in the discussion. I was wrong and out of line.

Apology accepted.

1. So was jesus just doing nothing in heaven? Did he disagree with the Fathers violent tendencies? Jesus came to fulfill the old testament, why cant the father do that? Do you believe the father is superior?

Well it would seem that Jesus was a part of at least some of the Father’s actions during the Old Testament period. To continue with John 1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

So Jesus it seemed was actively involved in the work of creation. All the more reason to acknowledge and worship Him surely!

Certainly Jesus was obedient to the Father in fulfilling His work. John 3:16 again is a very useful passage “For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten son, that those who believeth in Him shall not perish but have eternal life”.

So what was the Father’s plan? Jesus explained this somewhat in this parable.

Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.

10 And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.

11 And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.

12 And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.

13 Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.

14 But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.

15 So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?

16 He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.

Luke 20:9-19

First the prophets had come and had been ignored when they continually called to the people to repent. Then Jesus came, but He knew He would not be accepted either, so He had to die for the sins of the people, that those who believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

As for whether Jesus disagreed with the Father’s violent actions, we have no information on that either way.

If The father and the son are both God surely those who believe in the Father believe in the same God as we do. (Jews, and to a less extant Muslims)

If the Father and the Son are both God (which they are, and the Holy Spirit too), then one must believe in all three!

St Athanasius put it like this

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled; without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost.

 

[rose_kelly]

I will trust pope francis for anaylisis of scripture and for church law, not jim blackburn.

If I thought that Jim Blackburn was saying anything contrary to Pope Francis I wouldn’t have posted the link.

I did so because for those searching for an explanation the article points to misunderstandings of interpretation of scripture that he attempts to clarify concluding with catechism references, but whether people agree or disagree with his analysis is a matter for them.

And just to clarify my own position (because I believe in a loving and merciful God) there has never been any doubt or questioning that salvation would ever be denied to good people of other faiths or none.

 

[Wesrock]

Yes, I think he accepts it, and there may be a joy in a people who accept the truth of monotheism. I would not say their worship is sufficient or that muslims are saved. They are outside of the Church, reject God’s revelation of the Trinity and Jesus’ role within it.

 

[KEP1983]

The bible quotes I provided for you all demostrate the fact that Jesus is inferior to the Father. And that the father is the supreme being and created Jesus.

Woah, that’s a potentially hugely heretical statement. I hope you didn’t mean how that came across. Jesus in His divinity is equal to the Father, but in His humanity is subordinate. His human nature is created, but His divine nature is not.

My questions to you are.

Is Jesus the one who talked to the all the prophets in the old testament or was that “the father” or a false idol?

If yes, then muslims and jews do believe in the same God as us.

I’m sorry, but this doesn’t logically follow. The prophets of the old testament really received revelation from God. When Moses spoke to God, he was really receiving new revelation from God. But the Church, Hebrews 1, and Jude 1 all state, dogmatically, that Jesus was the final public revelation. There is no more new public revelation. Muhammed, Joseph Smith, Bahaullah, etc did not receive any new revelation.

Do you believe, like me, the pope, jesus, and most catholics that Jews, Muslims, and Christains all believe in the same God?

You’re assuming that the pope and Jesus believe muslims worship the same god as us. Where did jesus ever say that, considering islam wasn’t even around yet? Now you’re not only putting words into other people’s mouths, but now you’re putting words into Jesus mouth!!!

P.S. I love how you ignored my evidence from the pope and the Catholic Catcheism

I don’t think he did. Simply saying that the pope and catechism teach something doesn’t prove they do…