Does God exist?

[RosaryFan]

Oh yeah. My ignore list was updated at the end of that last posting of mine. (…before that actually, but I couldn’t help myself “peeking” at his nonsense, which ended up in my responding.)

Yet another “Look at the Catholic dance! Look at the Catholic DANCE!” player.

Typical.

:shamrock2:

That’s a riot!

 

[Shredderbeam]

Give up, everyone. Shredderbeam knows everything and is always right. I refer you to his comments in the thread entitled “Tell me why you’re pro-life” in Social Justice.

Either he is all-knowing, or he just likes to antagonize the Catholics.

I don’t appreciate the negativity. I’d like to have a calm, polite, reasonable debate.

Oh yeah. My ignore list was updated at the end of that last posting of mine. (…before that actually, but I couldn’t help myself “peeking” at his nonsense, which ended up in my responding.)

Yet another “Look at the Catholic dance! Look at the Catholic DANCE!” player.

Typical.

:shamrock2:

I’d appreciate it if you continued on the debate. I’m not trying to antagonize anybody - I’m just debating.

(I also asked a few questions in that last post of mine.)

 

[RosaryFan]

I don’t appreciate the negativity. I’d like to have a calm, polite, reasonable debate.

I’d appreciate it if you continued on the debate. I’m not trying to antagonize anybody - I’m just debating.

(I also asked a few questions in that last post of mine.)

YOU don’t appreciate the negativity? Aren’t you trying to prove to a boat load of Catholics that God doesn’t exist, or did I miss something?

 

[Shredderbeam]

YOU don’t appreciate the negativity? Aren’t you trying to prove to a boat load of Catholics that God doesn’t exist, or did I miss something?

I’m having a debate about whether God exists, correct. It’s an intellectual exchange of ideas, critiques, etc. It would be a shame for it to degenerate into a mud-slinging contest.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

I’m having a debate about whether God exists, correct. It’s an intellectual exchange of ideas, critiques, etc. It would be a shame for it to degenerate into a mud-slinging contest.

(( OK,… consarn it,… made me peek,… … again! <grumph…> ))

You’re NOT having a debate over whether God exists, because “debate” requires two “ailleurbat”, or “aillebat-ur”, or “battlers”.

We are here not to debate you, at least I’m not, but only to inform you by giving you answers to your questions, or prompting you to ask “pertinent” questions by asking you questions which lead you to ask better questions to do so.

In other words, we are here to inform you of facts. You are here to be informed as best we can figure out from your questions and your statements.

This is not a battle (which is what the word “de-BATe” [as in “to batter!”] means). This is you being informed.

So, if you’re not interested in hearing what we have to say and accepting it as being “the truth according to us”, agreeing to either agree with us or disagree with us, and then moving on to your finding out about other things, instead of simply rehashing the same topic over and over and over, trying to “convince” us that you’re right, then you’re in the wrong place and no one (with any sense after finding this out about you) will “play your little game of musical freakin’ chairs”!

So, whatcha wanna do, eh pilgrim?

:shamrock2:

 

[herdme]

i dont know why i am so thirsthy for God too. reading this posts and replies .what makes me thirst for your existence …why do i have to also post this one…its the same thirst…i dont know percentage in my life he actually helped me a lot…and when He did not…i dont even know if its ok to know this since we are all so thirsthy for freedom…do we want God to limit us…but i do sometimes want someone more powerful to help me too…and that i have to rely on faith…and things dont work out as i imagined it…ill still hold on…thus believing in God only for the weak or it is for the enlightened or to be enlightened?..

 

[Shredderbeam]

(( OK,… consarn it,… made me peek,… … again! <grumph…> ))

You’re NOT having a debate over whether God exists, because “debate” requires two “batailleur”, or “bataille-ur”, or “battlers”.

We are here not to debate you, at least I’m not, but only to inform you by giving you answers to your questions, or prompting you to ask “pertinent” questions by asking you questions which lead you to ask better questions to do so.

In other words, we are here to inform you of facts. You are here to be informed as best we can figure out from your questions and your statements.

This is not a battle (which is what the word “de-BATe” [as in “to batter!”] means). This is you being informed.

All right then.

CatsAndDogs:

So, if you’re not interested in hearing what we have to say and accepting it as being “the truth according to us”, agreeing to either agree with us or disagree with us, and then moving on to your finding out about other things, instead of simply rehashing the same topic over and over and over, trying to “convince” us that you’re right, then you’re in the wrong place and no one (with any sense after finding this out about you) will “play your little game of musical freakin’ chairs”!

All right. To put it another way, when you respond to one of my questions, I might have a question about that response, which I then post.

CatsAndDogs:

So, whatcha wanna do, eh pilgrim?

I’d be happy to ask questions.

 

[wasmit]

Ahh, but miracles by definition are not repeatable. If they could be replicated they would just become a normal part of our understanding of the natural world.

the eucharist?

 

[Shredderbeam]

the eucharist?

Since you just mentioned that, forgive me for asking a question of you.

I found this in a brief Wikipedia search:

“According to the Catholic Church, when the bread and wine are consecrated in the Eucharist, they cease to be bread and wine, and become instead the body and blood of Christ: although the empirical appearances are not changed, the reality is changed by the power of the Holy Spirit who has been called down upon the bread and wine.”

Would you be able to explain to me just what the text in bold means?

Thanks in advance!

 

[MrIsla]

my athiest friend said he saw god in a dream and he told him he was real, he insantly converted.

there is my proof.

 

[Shredderbeam]

my athiest friend said he saw god in a dream and he told him he was real, he insantly converted.

there is my proof.

How do you know that he didn’t merely dream that he saw God, much like one might dream that they met a race of aliens?

 

[Michael_Francis]

**Several posts have been deleted from this thread.

Please keep your posts on topic and charitable.

Personal comments are often irrelevant and inflammatory.
Sincerely,**

 

[cazayoux]

Ahh, but miracles by definition are not repeatable. If they could be replicated they would just become a normal part of our understanding of the natural world.

You show these as mutually exclusive.
I would say that the birth of all four of my sons, even though a definite part of our understanding of the natural world, are all miracles because they are all happy even though all four were born with the cord wrapped around their necks and my third even had a true knot in the cord.

The fact that I have four healthy sons is a miracle.

michel

 

[crowonsnow]

You show these as mutually exclusive.
I would say that the birth of all four of my sons, even though a definite part of our understanding of the natural world, are all miracles because they are all happy even though all four were born with the cord wrapped around their necks and my third even had a true knot in the cord.

The fact that I have four healthy sons is a miracle.

The discussion of personal testimonials like these are very sensitive topics. I am glad your sons are healthy and alive.

There are many instances, however, where the developing fetus does not survive such a condition. One could even ask that if there is a god, why does it even allow such a threatening condition to exist during a pregnancy.

And of course there is plenty of tragedy in the world, all of which demonstrates against the existence of these sorts of benevolent beings.

 

[crowonsnow]

Speaking from my current perspective, I’d probably seriously consider the possibility that it was divine intervention. I don’t know for certain, though, since such a situation has not arisen.

But isn’t “divine intervention” merely a conditioned cultural response? Our ancestors saw lightning and said “divine intervention.” They saw floods and volcanoes and said “divine intervention.” I know people who see a flower and say “divine intervention.” Girls get chosen to the cheerleading squad, professional athletes win a football game, and they say “divine intervention.”

What I was asking was what your experience would tell you about an alleged “divine intervener.” Would it be any different than our ancestors’ reaction to lightning or a football player thanking his lord and savior for making him victorious? It seems like the same thing to me. “Divine intervention” is the same as saying “I don’t understand the phenomenon completely,” or “I’m very happy right now.”

 

[Grateful4mercy]

the eucharist?

The Eucharist is a Mystery, as Fr. Groeschel is fond of saying. It is not observable with anything but the heart.

Since you just mentioned that, forgive me for asking a question of you.

I found this in a brief Wikipedia search:

“According to the Catholic Church, when the bread and wine are consecrated in the Eucharist, they cease to be bread and wine, and become instead the body and blood of Christ: although the empirical appearances are not changed, the reality is changed by the power of the Holy Spirit who has been called down upon the bread and wine.”

Would you be able to explain to me just what the text in bold means?

Thanks in advance!

The substance of the bread and wine changes to the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord, the accidents of bread and wine remain the same. You are more than water, protein, and a hand full of elements (the accidents of your being). The substance of your human person is not observable with normal means. I can’t possibly describe it further than that without risking exposing my ignorance

 

[Shlomey]

Study medicine and go to Italy, to Lanciano.
Then study the evidence there yourself - if you do not trust the experts before you.

 

[wasmit]

Ahh, but miracles by definition are not repeatable.

"wasmit:

the eucharist?

The Eucharist is a Mystery, as Fr. Groeschel is fond of saying. It is not observable with anything but the heart.

How do you explain that miracles by definition are not repeatable , when the eucharist is done thousands of times per day?

Either:
-the eucharist is not a miracle
-you were wrong when you said miracles are not repeatable

 

[Grateful4mercy]

How do you explain that miracles by definition are not repeatable , when the eucharist is done thousands of times per day?

Either:
-the eucharist is not a miracle
-you were wrong when you said miracles are not repeatable

What, exactly, are you observing repeated? There are absolutely zero physical manifestations to the consecration. Can I cut you open and see your soul? I’m pretty sure what we are discussing here are miracles vs. scientific discovery. When the Eucharist bleeds or turns to flesh the Church considers that a miracle. Why is that if they consider it a miracle to begin with? Do Priests get automatic Sainthood based on the thousands of consecrations they perform in their lifetime? I think not.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharistic_miracle

A Eucharistic miracle is a miracle when, during consecration during the Catholic or Orthodox Mass, the bread and wine visibly become the body and blood of Jesus Christ. Catholics believe that when the priest pronounces the words of consecration, the bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Christ, but retain the outward appearance of bread and wine. This is called transubstantiation, and differs from most Protestant Eucharistic theologies, which believe that the sacramental elements are not physically transubstantiated. Some Catholics claim that Eucharistic miracles happen most often when people, mainly priests or monks, doubt the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

 

[wasmit]

Ah, I was unclear on what you meant by a eucharistic miracle, thanks for posting that definition.

So, when the host physically and visibly changes, it is a eucharistic miracle.

Is it a miracle when they don’t change? If yes, then that miracle is performed every day.