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Zatzat
Guest
Does that mean that one cannot get close to God without having a handicap?
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Holly3278
Guest
No it does not. How on earth did you manage to twist my words into meaning something like that???
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Zatzat
Guest
I did no such thing, I merely asked a question.No it does not. How on earth did you manage to twist my words into meaning something like that???
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Holly3278
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I apologize for the accusation then. It merely appeared to me that you were twisting my words. However, I was wrong and for that, I apologize.
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Zatzat
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No worries…I asked, you answered.
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Yorkshireman
Guest
If someone is born with no feet it is because of a genetic mutation. Nothing to do with original sin. Evolution, which the church accepts as fact, is driven by random mutations.
So long as large parts of Genesis are no longer taught as fact, then genetics doesn’t conflict with the church’s teachings.
The then Cardinal Ratzinger endorsed this statement by The International Theological Commission in a July 2004:
“According to the widely accepted scientific account, the universe erupted 15 billion years ago in an explosion called the ‘Big Bang’ and has been expanding and cooling ever since. Later there gradually emerged the conditions necessary for the formation of atoms, still later the condensation of galaxies and stars, and about 10 billion years later the formation of planets. In our own solar system and on earth (formed about 4.5 billion years ago), the conditions have been favorable to the emergence of life. While there is little consensus among scientists about how the origin of this first microscopic life is to be explained, there is general agreement among them that the first organism dwelt on this planet about 3.5 - 4 billion years ago. Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism.” - wikipedia
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andyandely1997
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God permits everything to happen.* “Then the Lord said to Satan: Behold, all that he hath is in thy hand: only put not forth thy hand upon his person. And Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.” (Job 1:12) * God permitted Satan to test Job.
“And the Lord said: Simon, Simon, behold Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren.” (Luke 22:31-31) Satan was also permitted to test Peter.
*“Afterwards, Jesus findeth him in the temple, and saith to him: Behold thou art made whole: sin no more, lest some worse thing happen to thee.” (John 5:14) * And what could be worse than any suffering on earth? The loss of our salvation when it comes to sin.
Lastly, “For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.” (Isaiah 55:9) We will never be able to comprehend all the mysteries of God. Many people want to understand the mysteries of God, but there is no understanding without first coming to faith. And even when we come to faith, we will never understand all the things of God.
“Therefore do I speak to them in parables: because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And the prophecy of Isaias is fulfilled in them, who saith: By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand: and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive. For the heart of this people is grown gross, and with their ears they have been dull of hearing, and their eyes they have shut: lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.” (Matthew 13:13-15) Until we open our heart to Christ, we will be blind, in the darkness, and not have the light of Christ which is needed to start the understanding of God.
“And the Lord said: Simon, Simon, behold Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren.” (Luke 22:31-31) Satan was also permitted to test Peter.
*“Afterwards, Jesus findeth him in the temple, and saith to him: Behold thou art made whole: sin no more, lest some worse thing happen to thee.” (John 5:14) * And what could be worse than any suffering on earth? The loss of our salvation when it comes to sin.
Lastly, “For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.” (Isaiah 55:9) We will never be able to comprehend all the mysteries of God. Many people want to understand the mysteries of God, but there is no understanding without first coming to faith. And even when we come to faith, we will never understand all the things of God.
“Therefore do I speak to them in parables: because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And the prophecy of Isaias is fulfilled in them, who saith: By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand: and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive. For the heart of this people is grown gross, and with their ears they have been dull of hearing, and their eyes they have shut: lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.” (Matthew 13:13-15) Until we open our heart to Christ, we will be blind, in the darkness, and not have the light of Christ which is needed to start the understanding of God.
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JohnAlexander
Guest
This boils down to the age old question of if God is good why is there evil in the world?
I believe there are two answers to this. Both will sound reasonable unless you are unfortunate enough to actually be afflicted with something.
The first is that we are not wise enough to know if something is actually bad for us. We humans have a very short term outlook, 100 years at best. Real life is eternity. If we knew what awaited us then the very very short time we spent suffering would not seem so bad and we might be grateful for the experience in the future. By this I mean imagine if everything in life were perfect, no problems to overcome, no struggles, just blandness. In other words, life with all its suffering, pain, joy, etc. is a great. If you remove all the things we think are bad then you lessen the experience overall.
The second answer to the problem of evil has to do with original sin. God designed us to have dominion over nature. People don’t understand what this means. Jesus had dominion over nature. All the things he could do (healing, walking on water, calming the seas, etc.) are things we were intended to be able to do. Jesus said if we had faith the size of a mustard seed we could command a mountain to move and it would obey. Original sin did not totally destroy our dominion over the earth. We can still heal people, we can move mountains, but it requires a lot more work. If Adam & Eve had not sinned then all the evils in the world would not exist. Earthquakes for example would could still happen but the effect on us would be negligible. We could either transport our bodies away or if our body was totally crushed by fallen debris we could just heal. Diseases, viral infections, malformations, etc. could just be corrected by the exercise of our will.
After the resurrection we will once again be the way God intended us to be, immortal and having dominion over the earth. There will be no evil people so there can not be any conflict. By evil I mean anyone who’s will is not aligned with God’s will.
Well that is all well and good in theory but doesn’t really do that much for anyone who is suffering now. To that all I can say is pray more that you may have a greater understanding. Is there anyone who suffered more than Job? Read and meditate on the Book of Job. Also you can’t claim that God doesn’t understand how horrible things are. He knows very well how bad things can be on earth, He was here and experienced it first hand.
So in answer to the OP question.
- Most of what we think of as evil isn’t.
- That which is really bad we suffer as a result of original sin robbing us of the power to fix/prevent it.
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Yorkshireman
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Pope Benedict doesn’t believe we all originate from 2 human parents. If I could just paste here what I put in another reply on this thread:
The then Cardinal Ratzinger endorsed this statement by The International Theological Commission in a July 2004:
“According to the widely accepted scientific account, the universe erupted 15 billion years ago in an explosion called the ‘Big Bang’ and has been expanding and cooling ever since. Later there gradually emerged the conditions necessary for the formation of atoms, still later the condensation of galaxies and stars, and about 10 billion years later the formation of planets. In our own solar system and on earth (formed about 4.5 billion years ago), the conditions have been favorable to the emergence of life. While there is little consensus among scientists about how the origin of this first microscopic life is to be explained, there is general agreement among them that the first organism dwelt on this planet about 3.5 - 4 billion years ago. Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism.” - wikipedia
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kage_ar
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We would follow the official documents of the Church, in this case Humani Generis and the Catechism before wikipedia. All of the official documents of the Church are available at www.vatican.va
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PennitentMan
Guest
To the OP.
According to the bible, god knew us all in our mother’s womb and knitted us together there.
So, according to your own scripture, whatever birth defects there are, god did that…or he willed that to happen…or at the very least he knew that it was happening and did nothing to it.
That’s straight from scripture…
Believing otherwise is turning a blind eye to see what you want to see about god’s true nature.
According to the bible, god knew us all in our mother’s womb and knitted us together there.
So, according to your own scripture, whatever birth defects there are, god did that…or he willed that to happen…or at the very least he knew that it was happening and did nothing to it.
That’s straight from scripture…
Believing otherwise is turning a blind eye to see what you want to see about god’s true nature.
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1ke
Guest
You are incorrect regarding the Church’s teaching on Original Sin.
You are also incorrect that the Church accepts Darwin’s theory of evolution as “fact.” There are certainly some aspect of the theory and other theories that have substantial evidence behind them, other parts that do not.
The Church’s teaching on Genesis is clear regarding the original set of first parents, creation ex nihilo, special creation of the soul, and Original Sin.
Which in no way conflicts with the Church’s teaching on creation ex nihilo, special creation of the soul, original first parents, or Original Sin.
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1ke
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Actually, that’s straight from a complete misinterpretation and lack of understanding of God and Scripture.
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hellopeople
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Believing in Adam and Eve is NOT required by the church. I have never had a priest tell me that Adam and Eve were real people and one of my cousins is studying to be a deacon and was taught in the seminary that Adam and Eve weren’t real.
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hellopeople
Guest
What about people that are so mentally handicapped that they are not capable of thinking beyond the level of a small child? A person like this cannot be close to God because they don’t have the mental capacity for it. Some people are so mentally handicapped that the concept of God and having a relationship with God is incomprehensible.
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1ke
Guest
Your conclusion is not supported by the Wikipedia excerpt you posted. The wikipedia quote states nothing regarding our original human parents nor does it give evidence that Pope Benedict rejects original first parents. It isn’t even talking about human beings. It’s talking about the big bang theory.
Please produce the statement from Pope Benedict that says we do not have a real set of first parents and that there is no Original Sin.
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1ke
Guest
Au contraire.
I refer you to the Papal Encyclical Humani Generis and the Catechism:
What a shame.
It is terrible when those in formation are not taught the truth.
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kage_ar
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You have not spent much time around children or the mentally disabled. They are capable of very close relationships with God.
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kage_ar
Guest
Your cousin either misunderstood OR was taught a lie. The Priest, pray God you misunderstood him, if not I pray that he will have a conversion of heart.
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