Does God hate sinners

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linuxfreak

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Psalm 5 seems to say that God literally hates sinners and so when I say God loves all his children; everyone, my wife says I am wrong. Pope Francis recently said God loves homosexuals. As homosexuality is a sin, how can this be in relation to the psalm?

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Nathan
 
If God literally hates sinners, then He hates all of us. Is that what your wife thinks?
 
This. As there is no one among us who doesn’t sin, then God would in fact hate everyone… including your wife. Including me. Incluing you. Including everyone posting here.

I don’t think her argument has been thought through very well.
 
The Lord loves us infinitely. He does not desire what sin does for us…separate us from Him.

He desires to fill us with extraordinary happiness for all eternity. If we turn our backs to Him, he doesn’t force us to love Him.

He accepts our repentance, and grants us the grace to grow spiritually. He gave us the sacraments and is always there for us.
 
I agree, however my wife does not. Is there any passages in the NT that show psalm 5:5 doesn’t mean God hates the sinner? I understand God is incapable of hate as he IS love, but how do I argue this in light of the psalm? My wife says God hates the sinner until repentance and so it is a simple matter of sin = God hates, repent = God loves again.
 
linuxfreak said:
Psalm 5 seems to say that God literally hates sinners and so when I say God loves all his children; everyone, my wife says I am wrong. Pope Francis recently said God loves homosexuals. As homosexuality is a sin, how can this be in relation to the psalm?

Thanks

Nathan
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God is love and in Him there is no darkness. He created humankind to have fellowship with Him, out of love. He gave humans free choice to spurn His love. This is not His intention for humankind, so when humans choose a life separated from Him, he hates that.

We also need to balance this with other verses, so that it makes sense in terms of the whole.

Sirach 33:14 “Good is the opposite of evil,
and life the opposite of death;
so the sinner is the opposite of the godly.”

Ezekiel 18:23 23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, says the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?

Humans think of “hate” as an emotional state, accompanied by sinful behavior, but from God’s point of view, it is a state of emnity/separation.

Ecclesiastes 3:8 a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.

Luke 14:26 “If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

Strong’s Concordance
miseó: to hate
Original Word: μισέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: miseó
Phonetic Spelling: (mis-eh’-o)
Short Definition: I hate, detest
Definition: I hate, detest, love less, esteem less.
HELPS Word-studies
3404 miséō – properly, to detest (on a comparative basis); hence, denounce; to love someone or something less than someone (something) else, i.e. to renounce one choice in favor of another.
 
The phrase “love the sinner, hate the sin” might be what y’all are looking for. Just because I love someone doesn’t mean that I heartily endorse and validate everything they do. The same thing is true for God-- he IS love; it is his nature. It’s the whole purpose that drove the Redemption.

As far as the Bible is concerned, how about “Go and sin no more?”
2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women.Now what do you say?” 6They were using this question as a trap,in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11“No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,”Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
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linuxfreak said:
Psalm 5 seems to say that God literally hates sinners and so when I say God loves all his children; everyone, my wife says I am wrong. Pope Francis recently said God loves homosexuals. As homosexuality is a sin, how can this be in relation to the psalm?
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Can you direct me to where in Palms 5 you get this impression from. I have just read all of it but can’t see where you are coming from.
 
My guess is Psalm 5:7. From the Douay-Rheims:
“5:7 Thou hatest all the workers of iniquity: thou wilt destroy all that speak a lie. The bloody and the deceitful man the Lord will abhor.”
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From Haydock’s Commentary:
“Ver. 7. Workers, (operantur) “who work,” (H.) and die impenitent. — Lie. All heretics, who kill their own and neighbours’ souls, (S. Jer.) and in general all seducers, (C.) who will be treated like those who have committed murder. Euseb. Cæsar.”
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Gambling is a sin. Being a gambler who no longer gambles is not. Stealing is a sin. Being a thief who no longer steals is not. Homosexual behavior is a sin (as is much heterosexual behavior these days), but simply being homosexual is not a sin.

There’s a difference.

God does not create to hate. He creates out of love, yet grants us the freedom to choose Him or to reject Him. Why? Love must be freely chosen, or it is not true love.
 
I like Thomas Aquinas’ answer to this same question:
On the contrary, It is said (Wisdom 11:25): “Thou lovest all things that are, and hatest none of the things which Thou hast made.”…[But n]othing prevents one and the same thing being loved under one aspect, while it is hated under another. God loves sinners in so far as they are existing natures; for they have existence and have it from Him. In so far as they are sinners, they have not existence at all, but fall short of it; and this in them is not from God. Hence under this aspect, they are hated by Him.
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From the New Testament, I think Matthew 5:43-48 offers a good example of this. Jesus concludes His discussion on loving your enemies by saying, “So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Basically, it appears that part of the Father’s perfection is that He loves even His enemies.
 
If God hated sinners, he would not have sent his Son to die for our sins. Romans 5:8 “But God proves his love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us.”
 
I offer you this thought. The opposite of love is not hate. It is apathy. To hate something is to be angry or disgusted by it or its action. But hate is not a negation of love, it is a reaction to the disappointment in the beloved by the one who loves. God hates sin, not sinners. His forgiveness is eternal and unending. The sinner need only ask sincerely.
 
God loves us but hates the sin. He’s pulling for us to remove sin from our lives and come back to him.
It’s like a home coming.
He forgives us when asked but we don’t forgive ourselves.
Lord, give us strength to get sin out of our lives.
In Jesus name
Amen
 
linuxfreak said:
Pope Francis recently said God loves homosexuals. As homosexuality is a sin, how can this be in relation to the psalm?
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Homosexuality – that is, the orientation itself – is not a sin. (The Catechism calls it ‘disordered’, but in itself, it’s not a sin.)

What is a sin is homosexual activity. So, does God love homosexuals? Absolutely – just like He loves those who have any kind of sinful inclination.
linuxfreak said:
I agree, however my wife does not. Is there any passages in the NT that show psalm 5:5 doesn’t mean God hates the sinner?
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Here’s the thing: the notion of an eternal reward (heaven) or eternal punishment (hell) is relatively new within the Judeo-Christian tradition – even during Jesus’ earthly ministry, there wasn’t a consensus. (Heck, even today, there are Jews who do not believe in heaven and hell!)

In its place, then, was the belief that God rewards good behavior and punishes evil behavior here and now, on earth. So, here’s what the psalm says:
the arrogant cannot stand before your eyes. You hate all who do evil; you destroy those who speak falsely
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To my eyes, this sure looks like an affirmation that God punishes those who do evil. 🤷‍♂️

In addition, I would concur with @guanophore’s take on the definition of ‘miseo’.
 
po18guy said:
Gambling is a sin.
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No it is not. Gambling per se is not a sin.

CCC 2413 Games of chance (card games, etc.) or wagers are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. The passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement. Unfair wagers and cheating at games constitute grave matter, unless the damage inflicted is so slight that the one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant.
 
It is Psalm 5:5 in RSVCE ; The boastful may not stand before thy eyes;
thou hatest all evildoers. I’m trying to explain to my wife that God can’t hate as he IS love. She also doesn’t agree that God doesn’t experience emotions, because she is taking the words in the old testament (God is jealous, angry etc) literally. I believe in the Catholic position; God is unchangeable and therefore does not experience a change of state to produce emotions, it is analogous writing to explain God’s actions.

Thanks for the great replies!
 
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