Does God hate unrepentant sinners?

[Seraphim73]

God hates. It is stated in the Bible. It is true. The things and people in Hell aren’t loved by God anymore. They may have been at one time, but they are hated and are to be forgotten, as if they were no more. That too is Biblical. More than one Father of the Church says it is useless to pray for those who have gone to Hell and that they should be forgotten. Why? Because God did and we imitate Him.

Well that’s just simply not true. The Church prays for those in hell every Pentecost. I don’t think you can prove anywhere from Scripture that those in hell aren’t loved by God anymore. In fact one of the only positive statements we have about God ontologically in the entire New Testament is the fact that God is love.

 

[Philthy]

God hates. It is stated in the Bible. It is true.

 

[JRKH]

God hates. It is stated in the Bible. It is true. The things and people in Hell aren’t loved by God anymore. - SNIP -

Fair enough Glenda. I wonder if some of the disconnect stems from how we (in our modern times) understand various words. I believe that today we think of “hate” as a very active type of verb - very negative. But I wonder if the ancient writers held this same view of whatever the Hebrew word was that they used that we now translate as “hate”.

In your comment above you say that God hates and then you say that the things in hell “aren’t loved by God anymore”. I wonder if these two tings are equal. Does “do not love” necessarily = hate? In our modern parlance couldn’t “do not love” also equal “indifference”?

I’m not saying this as an attack…Merely suggesting that we delve a bit deeper into how we view and understand these things.

An unrepentant sinner has rejected God and His Mercy. He will reap the rewards of his efforts and will be no more in the mind of God. It is worse than if he had never existed.

But again - I don’t think that this necessarily equals “hate”. A Judge can sentence a criminal to life in prison - or even death row - but still not hate them. If a poor human can do this, surely God can.

I grow weary of hearing the dumbed down version of Who God is. He now has a Hallmark Seal of Approval that says His wrath is a thing of the past and only His mercy remains because He loves everyone.

Totally agree. I think that there has been a pendulum swing in how many people view God. A hundred years ago there was much “fire and brimstone” and beating of breasts etc…(not necessarily a bad thing). God’s judgement was emphasized and his loving mercy seemed lost in the mix.
Today it has seemed to swing the other way…All Love, and All Mercy…to the point that His real justice is now lost in the mix.

…It is a huge mystery. I think what catches people off guard with the idea of God hating is that they measure it by their own experience of hatred and think it is the same thing with God, but it isn’t.

YES - it is a huge mystery and I totally agree with this. We DO measure it by our own experience…We have to because we have no other.
This is also why we (and the ancient writers) choose the words we do - - Because they are words from our own time, place and experience…

So, I will stand my ground on this one. I am truly sorry if I offend folks when I talk like this but I wouldn’t if I didn’t think in needs saying.

I am not offended by your remarks. I think that they spur us to a deeper discussion and understanding of these matters. So thank you for your participation.

57,000,000 murdered children discarded as so much medical waste. Think God loves that? Guess again.

Of course God does not love this…But I believe those 57,000,000 children are with Him and they are a powerful - POWERFUL - force in His army. An army for good that grows stronger every day.

Peace
James

 

[glendab]

Hello Seraphim.

Well that’s just simply not true. The Church prays for those in hell every Pentecost. I don’t think you can prove anywhere from Scripture that those in hell aren’t loved by God anymore. In fact one of the only positive statements we have about God ontologically in the entire New Testament is the fact that God is love.

I don’t know what Church prays for the condemned in Hell each Pentecost, but it isn’t the Catholic Church. Here is a brief quote to get you started and I’ll find more for you later if you wish, but I need to get to Church this morning, so it will have to wait. Quote is from St. Hyppolytus.

“Of which voice the justification will be seen in the awarding to each that which is just; since to those who have done well shall be assigned righteously eternal bliss, and to the lovers of iniquity shall be given eternal punishment. And the fire which is unquenchable and without end awaits the latter, and a certain fiery worm which dies not, and which does not waste the body, but continues bursting forth from the body with unending pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment;** no voice of interceding friends will profit them. For neither are the righteous seen by them any longer, nor are they worthy of remembrance**.”-St. Hyppolytus-Against the Greeks, chpt 3

Glenda

 

[fred_conty]

Hello Seraphim.

I don’t know what Church prays for the condemned in Hell each Pentecost, but it isn’t the Catholic Church. Here is a brief quote to get you started and I’ll find more for you later if you wish, but I need to get to Church this morning, so it will have to wait. Quote is from St. Hyppolytus.

“Of which voice the justification will be seen in the awarding to each that which is just; since to those who have done well shall be assigned righteously eternal bliss, and to the lovers of iniquity shall be given eternal punishment. And the fire which is unquenchable and without end awaits the latter, and a certain fiery worm which dies not, and which does not waste the body, but continues bursting forth from the body with unending pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment;** no voice of interceding friends will profit them. For neither are the righteous seen by them any longer, nor are they worthy of remembrance**.”-St. Hyppolytus-Against the Greeks, chpt 3

Glenda

John said, “God is Love”. God is his attributes. God is Justice. God does not “have” love as we do. He is Love. I don’t understand that really, but I do accept it. So we are really very different than God when it comes to love. I don’t know if we can really fully appreciate what it means to say “God is Love”.

But we can say that if God is Love, then he can’t be hate at the same time, for that would be a contradiction. He could not be love and be hate which are opposites. And since he can not have love one moment and have hate another, then he is what he is…Love. That means in terms of speaking about God on his level, he cannot have hate and cannot be hate. Therefore he can only be loving since he is love.

So God does not hate anyone…even the devil. Because hate is not in God. What we are referring to hate in God is really justice, for he is Just. And so in god’s judgement, justice is rendered which may look like hate, or be said in human thought to emulate hate.

So God being Love, it would be impossible for God to hate the unrepentant sinner. Jesus himself was said to be the friend of sinners in this life. In the next he is their judge giving each his due.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

 

[chefmomster2]

John said, “God is Love”. God is his attributes. God is Justice. God does not “have” love as we do. He is Love. I don’t understand that really, but I do accept it. So we are really very different than God when it comes to love. I don’t know if we can really fully appreciate what it means to say “God is Love”.

But we can say that if God is Love, then he can’t be hate at the same time, for that would be a contradiction. He could not be love and be hate which are opposites. And since he can not have love one moment and have hate another, then he is what he is…Love. That means in terms of speaking about God on his level, he cannot have hate and cannot be hate. Therefore he can only be loving since he is love.

So God does not hate anyone…even the devil. Because hate is not in God. What we are referring to hate in God is really justice, for he is Just. And so in god’s judgement, justice is rendered which may look like hate, or be said in human thought to emulate hate.

So God being Love, it would be impossible for God to hate the unrepentant sinner. Jesus himself was said to be the friend of sinners in this life. In the next he is their judge giving each his due.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

Superbly said!

 

[Seraphim73]

Hello Seraphim.

I don’t know what Church prays for the condemned in Hell each Pentecost, but it isn’t the Catholic Church.

Yes you do. Look at the Kneeling Vespers of Pentecost in any Eastern Catholic Church that uses the Byzantine Rite. The Latin Church used to do it as well but the understanding has changed over the centuries. Here is the Latin text from the Liturgy for the Dead:

“Libera animas omnium fidelium defunctorum de poenis inferni et de profundo lacu”

Also the Catholic Encyclopedia says…

“In itself, it is no rejection of Catholic dogma to suppose that God might at times, by way of exception, liberate a soul from hell.”

Link

 

[glendab]

Hello Fred.

But we can say that if God is Love, then he can’t be hate at the same time, for that would be a contradiction. He could not be love and be hate which are opposites. And since he can not have love one moment and have hate another, then he is what he is…Love. That means in terms of speaking about God on his level, he cannot have hate and cannot be hate. Therefore he can only be loving since he is love. …So God does not hate anyone…even the devil. Because hate is not in God…it would be impossible for God to hate the unrepentant sinner.

First off, no one ever said God IS hate. That would be a work of the devil. Switching around the words to infer it is misleading. If you want to imply such a blasphemy that is fine for you, but don’t try to imply that is what others mean. That would be a calumny of a serious nature and is inappropriate in serious dialog.

God does hate the devil. To say that He doesn’t is wrong. You are trying to limit God to being only that which you find acceptable and that places a human limit on God based upon your limited understanding. Scripture doesn’t lie. It clearly says God hates certain things and persons. I’ll quote a Psalm for you in both the English and the Latin so you know it isn’t a mistranslation of the word.
Psalm 5:7

7 Thou hatest all the workers of iniquity: thou wilt destroy all that speak a lie.
The bloody and the deceitful man the Lord will abhor.

haydock1859.tripod.com/id730.html

7** Odisti **omnes qui operantur iniquitatem;
perdes omnes qui loquuntur mendacium.
**Virum **sanguinum et dolosum abominabitur Dominus.

sacred-texts.com/bib/vul/psa005.htm

A person who dies unrepentant will not gain Purgatory, therefore they will reside for eternity in Hell and they will see God no more and He will never ever know them. They will have gained the just reward for a lifetime of despising Him and His way of life.

Glenda

 

[glendab]

Hello Seraphim.

Yes you do. Look at the Kneeling Vespers of Pentecost in any Eastern Catholic Church that uses the Byzantine Rite. The Latin Church used to do it as well but the understanding has changed over the centuries. Here is the Latin text from the Liturgy for the Dead:

“Libera animas omnium fidelium defunctorum de poenis inferni et de profundo lacu”

Also the Catholic Encyclopedia says…

“In itself, it is no rejection of Catholic dogma to suppose that God might at times, by way of exception, liberate a soul from hell.”

Link

No one prays for the souls in Hell, ever. Everyone knows they are there for all eternity. To attribute such a grave error to the Church and her liturgy is not nice. The word “inferni” in your quotation is referring to the souls in Purgatory not Hell. As for the inference that the Church says it is possible that souls could ever be liberated from Hell, that was condemned as an error way back in the days of Origen. I really don’t feel like revisiting much dialog here about him again either. But I will if you insist.

Glenda

P.S. The link you provided has this to say about the eternity Hell is: The Holy Bible is quite explicit in teaching the eternity of the pains of hell. The torments of the damned shall last forever and ever (Revelation 14:11; 19:3; 20:10).

newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

You cannot have it both ways.

 

[Seraphim73]

Hello Seraphim.

No one prays for the souls in Hell, ever. Everyone knows they are there for all eternity. To attribute such a grave error to the Church and her liturgy is not nice.

That’s simply wrong. As I said look at the Kneeling Vespers for Pentecost in the Byzantine Rite. If you don’t believe me go ask on the Eastern Catholicism forum.