Does God have 3 minds?

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fisherman_carl said:
Does this sound right? A person has a nature. Thus a person has a mind.** So each Person of the Trinity has a mind, but it is the same one.** Since they each possess the same divine nature. Thus God can only have one mind but each Person fully possesses it as they each possess the one divine Nature.
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Yes, it sounds right to me. God has one nature, one mind, one will. Three Persons act using that nature, each Person fully possessing the one divine nature.
 
Eufrosnia said:
I am not a philosopher so this could be a very stupid question. But what exactly is defined as a “mind”? Do you mean a brain? If not the brain, are we not speaking of a person and their will?

So if we are speaking of persons, when we speak of minds, then this question would already be answered because we do believe in God as being three persons.

But if that is not what is meant by a mind, then what are we referring to as a mind?
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God is pure spirit. He has no body, no brain. He does have a mind and a will. The mind is the faculty by which one knows things. The will is the faculty by which one loves and decides things.

As an aside, human beings also have a mind and a will. For humans, the mind and will are faculties of the soul (not the brain.) And the soul is a spirit, not made of matter. Because we are human the brain is needed to integrate sensory perceptions, but the mind abstracts those sensory perceptions into abstract (non-material) ideas.
 
JimG said:
God is pure spirit. He has no body, no brain. He does have a mind and a will. The mind is the faculty by which one knows things. The will is the faculty by which one loves and decides things.

As an aside, human beings also have a mind and a will. For humans, the mind and will are faculties of the soul (not the brain.) And the soul is a spirit, not made of matter. Because we are human the brain is needed to integrate sensory perceptions, but the mind abstracts those sensory perceptions into abstract (non-material) ideas.
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Oh thanks, that is a very concise explanation. That is interesting and much to ponder for me and unpack.

So is the mind and will part of the person or part of the nature? I am more inclined at the moment to to think it is part of the person but as I said, this is not something I have thought much about :o

Actually what you wrote in a post above seems to suggest that mind and will are indeed part of nature. The mind I can understand as being part of the nature. But is the will part of ones nature as well? Because then what determines one person from another apart from what they freely will?
 
JimG said:
God is pure spirit. He has no body, no brain. He does have a mind and a will. The mind is the faculty by which one knows things. The will is the faculty by which one loves and decides things.

As an aside, human beings also have a mind and a will. For humans, the mind and will are faculties of the soul (not the brain.) And the soul is a spirit, not made of matter. Because we are human the brain is needed to integrate sensory perceptions, but the mind abstracts those sensory perceptions into abstract (non-material) ideas.
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I think the more precise term is “intellect” rather than “mind”.
 
Eufrosnia said:
Oh thanks, that is a very concise explanation. That is interesting and much to ponder for me and unpack.

So is the mind and will part of the person or part of the nature? I am more inclined at the moment to to think it is part of the person but as I said, this is not something I have thought much about :o

Actually what you wrote in a post above seems to suggest that mind and will are indeed part of nature. The mind I can understand as being part of the nature. But is the will part of ones nature as well? Because then what determines one person from another apart from what they freely will?
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What we are capable of is part of our nature. Thus, intellect and will–the ability to know and to love and to choose–comes from our nature. But our person is who does those things.

Not everything is nature is able to express its nature as a subject: that is, while everythiing has a nature, not everything is a person. A rock or a tree has the nature of a rock or a tree, but is not a person. A human being, on the other hand, has the nature of a human being, and can do human things because of that nature, but that nature also expresses itself as a particular person–a subject of action.

For humans, one human nature is expressed by one human person.

For God, one divine nature is expressed by three divine persons.
 
JimG said:
What we are capable of is part of our nature. Thus, intellect and will–the ability to know and to love and to choose–comes from our nature. But our person is who does those things.

Not everything is nature is able to express its nature as a subject: that is, while everythiing has a nature, not everything is a person. A rock or a tree has the nature of a rock or a tree, but is not a person. A human being, on the other hand, has the nature of a human being, and can do human things because of that nature, but that nature also expresses itself as a particular person–a subject of action.

For humans, one human nature is expressed by one human person.

For God, one divine nature is expressed by three divine persons.
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Thank you! That clarified the issue very much!

So then we would say that God has only one will, one intellect or one mind. That Christ had a human will and a human mind/intellect but his Human will was always consistent with his Divine will?

Also, after Christ rose from the dead, does he still have a human will and intellect or do we consider that in his humanity being made divine as saints will one day be made divine, Christ does not have a human will and intellect anymore?
 
Eufrosnia said:
Thank you! That clarified the issue very much!

So then we would say that God has only one will, one intellect or one mind. That Christ had a human will and a human mind/intellect but his Human will was always consistent with his Divine will?

Also, after Christ rose from the dead, does he still have a human will and intellect or do we consider that in his humanity being made divine as saints will one day be made divine, Christ does not have a human will and intellect anymore?
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You got it exactly right in the first paragraph.

Jesus remains a divine person–the Second Person of the Trinity–fully possessing the one divine nature. He also has taken on a human nature (but not human personhood), so, as man, he remains fully human. He has a human intellect and a human will even in heaven, but his human intellect and will are fully consistent with his divine will.

Because Jesus is both man and God, theologians sometimes use phrases like “Jesus, as man” did not humanly know a particular thing, or “Jesus, as God” knew everything. They are speaking of Jesus’ actions when operating with his divine nature, vs operating with his human nature. He took up a human nature voluntarily and permanently. He will not discard it.

On earth, sanctifying grace enables us to share in the divine life, even though we remain human. In heaven, we are so closely united to God that it is called the “Beatific Vision.” But we cannot of course, become God, though we can share in his life.
 
JimG said:
You got it exactly right in the first paragraph.

Jesus remains a divine person–the Second Person of the Trinity–fully possessing the one divine nature. He also has taken on a human nature (but not human personhood), so, as man, he remains fully human. He has a human intellect and a human will even in heaven, but his human intellect and will are fully consistent with his divine will.

Because Jesus is both man and God, theologians sometimes use phrases like “Jesus, as man” did not humanly know a particular thing, or “Jesus, as God” knew everything. They are speaking of Jesus’ actions when operating with his divine nature, vs operating with his human nature. He took up a human nature voluntarily and permanently. He will not discard it.

On earth, sanctifying grace enables us to share in the divine life, even though we remain human. In heaven, we are so closely united to God that it is called the “Beatific Vision.” But we cannot of course, become God, though we can share in his life.
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Thank you so much once again! There is much for me to think about in your post! 🙂
 
JimG said:
Exactly. When we speak of the Trinity, we are speaking of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, three Persons, possessing the one divine nature. It is the one divine nature through which each Person operates. There is but one divine mind and one divine will.

But Jesus, while being a divine person and fully possessing the divine nature, also took on a human nature. His human nature is fully human: he has a human mind and a human will, and those are limited in the way that human nature is limited. But He is not a human Person, but a divine Person.

Keep reading Frank Sheed. He helps with such understandings. Also, see his book “Theology for Beginners.”
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Scripture says Jesus was fully God - fully man. That means that Jesus was not only God, but also lived life on earth as a complete man. He did not just take on the nature of man.
 
Theophorus said:
I would go for 3 persons, with 3 minds, each fully possesing the divine essence, will and the fullness of divine knowledge. However I don’t see how these three distinct minds could do anything but agree entirely with each other, and have perfect knowledge of each other (a bit like that couple who’ve been married for 60 years or so and finish each others sentences etc. if imperfect beings can do this, imagine what the completly perfect persons of the Trinity could do)
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Theophorus, you are in my mind the one that has the simplest and yet the most plausible response to Carl’s question.
Besides that, I think that “quote” you had there is one of the most beautiful and complete definition of what it means to be in love(!) - with Jesus.
And you obviously are!
 
bsroufek said:
Jesus has a Human Nature and a Divine Nature. He has His own will, “Father, not my will by yours be done.” Although He says that “The Father and I are one,” He says that only the Father knows when the last day is. He says that the Spirit will not speak on His own but only what He hears (from the Father and the Son); but the Spirit intercedes for us with inexpressible groanings.

So, I would say that Jesus has, as a person, His own will and His own Mind. The Spirit intercedes and, so, has His own Mind. So, I would say that God has Three Minds, one for each Person.
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I totally agree with that argument; Scripturedoes not lie. And reading the references that you quoted, I don’t see how anyone can come to a different conclusion. And there are plenty of other scripture references that I have come across that brings me to the same conclusion. The problem for most is that they cannot conceive of 3 perfect persons that so perfectly act as one. The concept is non-existent among us in this world, so people would not understand/comprehend it.
 
human_genome said:
Scripture says Jesus was fully God - fully man. That means that Jesus was not only God, but also lived life on earth as a complete man. He did not just take on the nature of man.
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A person can only be one person. In the case of Jesus Christ, that person is a Divine Person - the second Person of the Most Holy Trinity. He assumed a complete human nature, and as such was possessed of a human intellect and a human will, and was therefore fully man.
 
human_genome said:
I totally agree with that argument; Scripturedoes not lie. And reading the references that you quoted, I don’t see how anyone can come to a different conclusion. And there are plenty of other scripture references that I have come across that brings me to the same conclusion. The problem for most is that they cannot conceive of 3 perfect persons that so perfectly act as one. The concept is non-existent among us in this world, so people would not understand/comprehend it.
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Christ has two natures - human and divine - and therefore has two intellects and two wills. Scripture does not support the idea that there are three Divine wills or three Divine intellects. Intellect and will are resident in the nature, not in the person; otherwise Christ could not have a human intellect and will since he is not a human person.
 
human_genome said:
I totally agree with that argument; Scripturedoes not lie. And reading the references that you quoted, I don’t see how anyone can come to a different conclusion. And there are plenty of other scripture references that I have come across that brings me to the same conclusion. The problem for most is that they cannot conceive of 3 perfect persons that so perfectly act as one. The concept is non-existent among us in this world, so people would not understand/comprehend it.
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“…in the Unity of the Holy Spirit, One God forever and ever. Amen.”
 
human_genome said:
Scripture says Jesus was fully God - fully man. That means that Jesus was not only God, but also lived life on earth as a complete man. He did not just take on the nature of man.
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That’s right. Jesus, the divine Word, became fully and completely human by taking on a human nature.
 
fisherman_carl said:
As Christians we believe in the Trinity, that is 3 Persons in one God. However, does that mean God has 3 separate minds in the 3 Persons? Or does the divine nature have one shared mind between the 3 Persons? And, if God has 3 separate minds would they be separately omniscient from each other?

There is only one God, one being. But does the Holy Spirit think exactly the same thoughts as the Father and the Son and thus having one mind all the time. Or do they think independent thoughts from one another having separate minds?
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May I suggest that the Athanasian Creed could help us with this?
And the catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. **Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. **The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three Eternals, but one Eternal. As there are not three Uncreated nor three Incomprehensibles, but one Uncreated and one Incomprehensible.
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If they are indeed, one, and they are indeed one “incomprehensible”, that 1) they are of three minds, yet one mind, and 2) that we can’t comprehend this at all.

Jon
 
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