Does God have "Hate Crimes"

[dl4765]

Beg pardon, but I have a question that I posted on ask an apologist that went unanswered, so I’m asking it here. I am in the process of conversion from Protestant to Catholic, so I am largely unschooled in Catholicism. I read a thread that stated that “God would punish you more for bigotry against gays than he will a gay for practicing homosexuality”. Now, coming from a Protestant background, I was taught that God hates ALL SIN, and the wages of sin are death. As humans, we assign different levels of “justice” to fit the crime. For example, a speeding ticket vs. robbery vs. murder. Each of those are crimes, but they are not considered equal. I was taught that God doesn’t discriminate, if you’re guilty (unrepented sin) regardless of what it was, you’re guilty and the penalty is the same. I have read that Catholicism has 2 types of sin, venieal (sp?) and mortal. So does that mean that God DOES have hate crimes?

 

[Jea9]

Beg pardon, but I have a question that I posted on ask an apologist that went unanswered, so I’m asking it here. I am in the process of conversion from Protestant to Catholic, so I am largely unschooled in Catholicism. I read a thread that stated that “God would punish you more for bigotry against gays than he will a gay for practicing homosexuality”. Now, coming from a Protestant background, I was taught that God hates ALL SIN, and the wages of sin are death. As humans, we assign different levels of “justice” to fit the crime. For example, a speeding ticket vs. robbery vs. murder. Each of those are crimes, but they are not considered equal. I was taught that God doesn’t discriminate, if you’re guilty (unrepented sin) regardless of what it was, you’re guilty and the penalty is the same. I have read that Catholicism has 2 types of sin, venieal (sp?) and mortal. So does that mean that God DOES have hate crimes?

God does hate all sin. But there are sins (mortal) that separate our soul from Communion with God. If we die with that sin on our soul, we go to hell. Venial sins are not to be considered as “no big deal”, all sin hurts God, but venial sins do not separate us from God in the same way. They are forgiven when we participate in the Mass and receive Communion.

I don’t know that I would call it “hate crimes” though, because while the punishment might be different, the sin still offends and hurts God.

 

[vz71]

God knows every aspect of every act and sin a person is guilty of.
He knows the thoughts, motivations, regrets…all of it.
And meters out just punishment for the act.

There are no ‘hate crimes’ there are simply sins. Some more serious then others, some mitigated to some degree or another by circumstance.

 

[dl4765]

…But there are sins (mortal) that separate our soul from Communion with God. If we die with that sin on our soul, we go to hell. Venial sins are not to be considered as “no big deal”, all sin hurts God, but venial sins do not separate us from God in the same way…

Ok, so how do you know which is which? I read that you have to go to confession for mortal sins, but not venial. That’s the only difference my source gave. If vagueness is a disease, then my source on this doesn’t have long to live.

 

[Baloo]

In order for a sin to be a mortal sin, it must follow these three criteria:

1. It must be grave matter (For example: Stealing a pencil Vs. stealing a car)
2. You must give full consent to the action/thought (Full Culpability)
3. You must know that it is indeed a sin. (Full Responsibility)

If a sin does not fit ALL three of these criteria, it is not a mortal sin and, does not break relationship with God. It is also forgiven when you receive the eucharist.

As far as one sin being more serious than another, I’ve heard that the ten commandments are ranked from greatest to least, although I’m not sure if that’s Catholic doctrine.

 

[manualman]

Protestants are fond of asserting that ALL sin is mortal. From a certain perspective, this is true! After all, we need a Savior in the first place because Adam and Eve ate a forbidden fruit. A FRUIT! How venial can you get?! But no, that action created a chasm between Adam and Eve and God so wide that even their children were subject to it.

This is the sense in which protestants are correct (IMO). At the time of original innocence, ANY sin was enough to rupture the communion between God and man. But we aren’t Adam and Eve. ALL humans are fatally flawed and doomed without the Grace of God which comes through Christ. Those of us who have been baptized and received this Grace are in a restored relationship with God that HE sustains supernaturally. For US there is a difference between mortal and venial sin. Protestants who believe in the idea of “once saved always saved” seem to believe that all sins are VENIAL at that point. (Because nothing can separate you from God in Christ, right?) Your actions don’t matter, only your faith. Catholicism isn’t like that (and we were here first! ).

Venial sins are offenses against God, but are not manifestations of an outright rejection of God’s Grace. These are things like telling your mother in law that you love her new hairdo or taking a long lunch at work or failing to stop a destructive habit. Mortal sins are sins that involve grave matter, knowledge and full consent. Yes that IS vague, because life is not something that can be boiled down to a list. It requires discernment. Do your best to figure it out and when in doubt, confess. A little extra Grace never hurts, no?

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Protestants are fond of asserting that ALL sin is mortal. From a certain perspective, this is true! After all, we need a Savior in the first place because Adam and Eve ate a forbidden fruit. A FRUIT! How venial can you get?! But no, that action created a chasm between Adam and Eve and God so wide that even their children were subject to it.

This is the sense in which protestants are correct (IMO). At the time of original innocence, ANY sin was enough to rupture the communion between God and man. But we aren’t Adam and Eve. ALL humans are fatally flawed and doomed without the Grace of God which comes through Christ. Those of us who have been baptized and received this Grace are in a restored relationship with God that HE sustains supernaturally. For US there is a difference between mortal and venial sin. Protestants who believe in the idea of “once saved always saved” seem to believe that all sins are VENIAL at that point. (Because nothing can separate you from God in Christ, right?) Your actions don’t matter, only your faith. Catholicism isn’t like that (and we were here first! ).

Venial sins are offenses against God, but are not manifestations of an outright rejection of God’s Grace. These are things like telling your mother in law that you love her new hairdo or taking a long lunch at work or failing to stop a destructive habit. Mortal sins are sins that involve grave matter, knowledge and full consent. Yes that IS vague, because life is not something that can be boiled down to a list. It requires discernment. Do your best to figure it out and when in doubt, confess. A little extra Grace never hurts, no?

I always thought that one of the major unfocused on points of the creation story and the fall is that Adam and Eve never asked for forgiveness. If they had, who knows?

 

[Jea9]

Ok, so how do you know which is which? I read that you have to go to confession for mortal sins, but not venial. That’s the only difference my source gave. If vagueness is a disease, then my source on this doesn’t have long to live.

Baloo gave a good run down on what constitutes a mortal sin. To me, grave matter consists of those things that are written on our hearts to be wrong. A person can have grown up in the most secular, atheistic home but still KNOWS that murdering someone is wrong. They may never have been told the 10 commandments but somehow people know that it is wrong to sleep with another person’s spouse. Does that make sense? There is no list of things that are considered to be grave matter, there is not an all inclusive list of mortal sin. In fact, I went to confession once and confessed something and the priest said to me “did you know that this is mortal sin?” and I had no idea! Obviously that limits my culpability, but you get the point; there is no specific list.

And although you HAVE to go to Confession for mortal sins, it is a pious practice to also confess venial sins. This is because the more that we sin, the more accustomed we come to sinning and thus the “easier” it gets to sin. Like I said in my earlier post, venial sins are forgiven outside of Confession, but it is still a good idea to confess them.

 

[St_Francis]

Baloo gave a good run down on what constitutes a mortal sin. To me, grave matter consists of those things that are written on our hearts to be wrong. A person can have grown up in the most secular, atheistic home but still KNOWS that murdering someone is wrong. They may never have been told the 10 commandments but somehow people know that it is wrong to sleep with another person’s spouse. Does that make sense?..

This is a really good point, because a lot of people (seem to?) believe that since So-and-so is not Catholic, they can’t be guilty of mortal sin.

And although you HAVE to go to Confession for mortal sins, it is a pious practice to also confess venial sins. This is because the more that we sin, the more accustomed we come to sinning and thus the “easier” it gets to sin. Like I said in my earlier post, venial sins are forgiven outside of Confession, but it is still a good idea to confess them.

Also, you get extra grace (God’s help) in avoiding sin from the sacrament of Confession

 

[diggerdomer]

Beg pardon, but I have a question that I posted on ask an apologist that went unanswered, so I’m asking it here. I am in the process of conversion from Protestant to Catholic, so I am largely unschooled in Catholicism. I read a thread that stated that “God would punish you more for bigotry against gays than he will a gay for practicing homosexuality”. Now, coming from a Protestant background, I was taught that God hates ALL SIN, and the wages of sin are death. As humans, we assign different levels of “justice” to fit the crime. For example, a speeding ticket vs. robbery vs. murder. Each of those are crimes, but they are not considered equal. I was taught that God doesn’t discriminate, if you’re guilty (unrepented sin) regardless of what it was, you’re guilty and the penalty is the same. I have read that Catholicism has 2 types of sin, venieal (sp?) and mortal. So does that mean that God DOES have hate crimes?

God does not have hate crimes.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Beg pardon, but I have a question that I posted on ask an apologist that went unanswered, so I’m asking it here. I am in the process of conversion from Protestant to Catholic, so I am largely unschooled in Catholicism. I read a thread that stated that “God would punish you more for bigotry against gays than he will a gay for practicing homosexuality”. Now, coming from a Protestant background, I was taught that God hates ALL SIN, and the wages of sin are death. As humans, we assign different levels of “justice” to fit the crime. For example, a speeding ticket vs. robbery vs. murder. Each of those are crimes, but they are not considered equal. I was taught that God doesn’t discriminate, if you’re guilty (unrepented sin) regardless of what it was, you’re guilty and the penalty is the same. I have read that Catholicism has 2 types of sin, venieal (sp?) and mortal. So does that mean that God DOES have hate crimes?

All sin is some form of hate. Most violent crimes involve some form of hate too. “Hate crimes legislation” in our worldly justice system seems an attempt to examine and punish the motive in addition to the crime. Our earthly judges cannot know a criminal’s heart the way God knows our hearts. God is the Perfect Judge. God doesn’t simply judge our actions; He judges our motives too. He knows our hearts–for better or for worse. God judges accordingly, with a combination of perfect justice and perfect mercy that only He can give because only He is perfect. He knows our hearts and all the other background information, and He takes all that into account.

That probably doesn’t answer your question about venial vs. mortal sins. Those are simply two ways to catagories sins. It distinguishes the “biggies” that cut us off from a life a grace from the smaller sins that we commit due to our imperfection even when we’re trying to walk in God’s grace. Others already explained it better earlier in this thread.

Whoever made the comment about how God will judge bigotry vs. homosexual acts likely does not understand the Catholic teachings that all sexual sins are objectively* considered grave matter. (* I qualify with “objectively” meaning we can say certain actions are clearly wrong, while leaving God to judge souls.) Bigotry is also a sin. However, people who voice concern about homosexual acts are not neccesarily bigoted, nor is it wrong to express concern about homosexuality. Some people are motivated to speak up about sexual sin because of their love and concern for their neighbor. Some people in the current political environment try to condemn anyone who speaks up against homosexual acts without knowing our hearts or motives. Ironically enough, such people may be guilty of bigotry against those of us who hold traditional Christian values.

 

[ttk5972]

There are several verses in the Bible that talk about degrees of punishment and judgement. While I can’t remember or quote them all, the one that comes to mind is Matthew 11:21

“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty deeds done in your midst had been done in Tyre and Sidon, 12 they would long ago have repented in sackcloth and ashes.
22
But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.”

I believe that God will judge us and only He knows the cause and intent of all sin. I live by Matthew 7:3, “remove the beam from your own eye, so you can help your brother remove the splinter from his.” As soon as I’m positive the whole beam is gone from my own eye, I will start searching for the splinters or even beams in others’ eyes. I also always try to remember that God may expect less sin from me because of all the blessings and grace I have received. “To whom much has been given, much will be expected.” (Luke 12:48) I’ve rarely heard of or seen anyone converted from judgement and fear of condemnation. It’s much more likely to turn them away from God and I never want to stand in front of God and have Him say, “I sent this person to you and you judged them and drove them away from me.”

 

[Gloria1]

In order for a sin to be a mortal sin, it must follow these three criteria:

1. It must be grave matter (For example: Stealing a pencil Vs. stealing a car)
2. You must give full consent to the action/thought (Full Culpability)
3. You must know that it is indeed a sin. (Full Responsibility)

If a sin does not fit ALL three of these criteria, it is not a mortal sin and, does not break relationship with God. It is also forgiven when you receive the eucharist.

As far as one sin being more serious than another, I’ve heard that the ten commandments are ranked from greatest to least, although I’m not sure if that’s Catholic doctrine.

Exactly what I learned from my theology class. However, I personally think that unless the sin you committed was committed against the Holy Spirit, then all sins are the same and God may or may not forgive you. In the sight of man, the punishment differs according to the gravity of the sin. For example, if you commit abortion, you will face some physical and psychological problems which are not punishments from God but punishments we put ourselves in for acting in certain ways. If you call your brother a “monkey”, it is sinful but in this case, there isn’t much physical and psychological “bad rewards” as in abortion.

 

[caesarjbsquitti]

"Hate Crimes’ is a label given to attract special status to some special interest groups and eventually try to eliminate any critical discussion of their high risk, irresponsible and deadly behavior…

For example…is not most crime based on some level of ‘hatred’…?

What about people who lie to their partners to infect them with ‘aids’ …? Is that not a hate crime?

Probably one of the most hideous crimes…involves the deceptive half-truth…‘stop violence against women’…which seems to suggest that violence against men and children is okay…

Fact is saying merely ‘stop violence’ would save us some ink and cover everyone…

 

[GratefulFred]

I may not use the most correct words here:

Because we are imperfect, we sin.
Sin is bahavior that moves us away from God (Love). Sin may be thought or action.
Sin may be “minor” - venial or “major” - mortal.
God loves us and wants to forgive us our sins.

If we die with unforgiven mortal sin on our soul, we have condemed ourself to Hell by our sin and our unrepentence.

We get God’s forgiveness through Confession - Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sin you shall for forgive are forgiven, whose sin you shall retain are retained.

Thus, when we confess, we must be sincerely sorry for sinning and fully intent on avoiding that sin or sins in the future. Bad habits are hard to break, but we must be willing to try even if it takes years.

OK, we are forgiven if we ask rightly. We have Christ’s word on that.
Thus, Confession is one of the very big reasons for being a Catholic.

But, even though we are forgiven, we must make amends for our sins.
I am not sure that the small penance assigned in confession makes full amends for my sins. I feel the need to do more. What or how much more is the question.

At least I know that I need to make best efforts to avoid sin. I know too that I need to redouble my efforts to LOVE as God has commanded me. Hate and selfishness are the opposite of Love.

To address the example given: While I think gay behavior is sinful, I am not required to answer for that behavior. The “splinter” in another’s eye is not my concern… The “log” in my eye is. But I am required to not hate Gays who struggle. Hating Gays is sinful. Strong hate is a mortal sin in my view. Hate the sin but love the sinner. But I also don’t think I am required to promote gay behavior to show I do not hate any more than I am required to promote any other sinful behavior.

Now back to general comment: Presuming we die without mortal sin on our soul, we will eventually join God in Heaven.

If we have not done enough to make amends for our sins before we die, we will spend time in Purgatory being cleansed. How long I do not know. I understand Purgatory is like Hell but not permanent as, without mortal sin on our soul, we ARE destined for Heaven.

Because God is perfect, it makes sense to me, that to be joined with Him in Heaven, I would want to be totally free of any sin and its consequences before I joined Him.

**Does God “punish” us? No, He does not. LOVE does not punish. We punish ourselves. God loves us. He will forgive us our sins if we are sincere. He will purify (not a punishment but an assistance) us so we can be with Him in Heaven. **

Confession and actually receiving Jesus Christ in Holy Communion are the two most important reasons for being a Catholic. Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I want to follow Him as closely as I can. He gave the Apostles the power to forgive sin. Thank God for that. And get that forgiveness.