Does God know the one?

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Good (early) morning!
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 Quick question.  When talking about future spouses on here, I have come across some conflicting ideas.  Some say that God doesn't have a person selected for you to marry in His plan, and others do.

 I'm with the idea that he does - after all, if God is preparing me right now for marriage to my future husband, wouldn't He be preparing a guy out there for being my future husband?  

 The idea that God doesn't have a specific person in mind almost makes it sound like He doesn't care about it, and that He's giving you a vocation to marriage, throwing you out into the world and telling you "Good luck!"

 Not meant to be an opinion bashing thread, just a charitable forum where you can voice your opinion. :D
God Bless!

Chloe M.
 
I believe that, despite all the difficulties I went through, God sent me E_7, and I am very happy with her. I lover her VERY MUCH, and I am looking forward to marry her on December 2013. May this be God’s will, I hope.
 
Well, God doesn’t “foresee” the future. He sees it, as you and I see the present moment. He already knows who it is you will choose, or who will choose you. This doesn’t change the importance of your choice, however. Always go to God, first, and pray much, about these things. Find a man of God, first and foremost. Pray the Rosary together. Go to Mass together. If he refuses to do these things, disqualify him!
 
Good (early) morning!
Code:
 Quick question.  When talking about future spouses on here, I have come across some conflicting ideas.  Some say that God doesn't have a person selected for you to marry in His plan, and others do.

 I'm with the idea that he does - after all, if God is preparing me right now for marriage to my future husband, wouldn't He be preparing a guy out there for being my future husband?
There are several examples from the Old Testament that suggest that you’re right on this one. Isaac and Rebecca, Ruth and Boaz - but my personal favourite is Tobias and Sarah from the Book of Tobit, in which the Angel Raphael more or less explicitly states that she is “the one” for Tobias. 🙂 Similarly, when He did not intend Jeremiah to be married, He told him so in no uncertain terms. I’m curious to see what others say on this, but the Bible is very good authority. 🙂
 
I think it is more up to us who choose, look at the amount of not only Good Catholic’s but good people in general who are single and may never get married simply because they cannot find a husband/wife
 
Marriage is a vocation. God knows exactly who is called to this vocation, and since it necessarily involves two who will become one, God necessarily knows which two are called to become one. It is not a matter of randomness!

Which is why patience, self-mastery in chastity, and discernment are most important :o God will definitely help us find out if we are on the right path, if we listen.
 
Marriage is a vocation. God knows exactly who is called to this vocation, and since it necessarily involves two who will become one, God necessarily knows which two are called to become one. It is not a matter of randomness!

Which is why patience, self-mastery in chastity, and discernment are most important :o God will definitely help us find out if we are on the right path, if we listen.
Unfortunately, while God may know who is best for us and intends us to marry that person, we often choose to make our own bad decisions, ignoring all the subtle hints and signs that a person may not be right for us, or letting our romantic feelings get in the way of sound judgment.😦
 
Good (early) morning!
Code:
 Quick question.  When talking about future spouses on here, I have come across some conflicting ideas.  Some say that God doesn't have a person selected for you to marry in His plan, and others do.

 I'm with the idea that he does - after all, if God is preparing me right now for marriage to my future husband, wouldn't He be preparing a guy out there for being my future husband?  

 The idea that God doesn't have a specific person in mind almost makes it sound like He doesn't care about it, and that He's giving you a vocation to marriage, throwing you out into the world and telling you "Good luck!"

 Not meant to be an opinion bashing thread, just a charitable forum where you can voice your opinion. :D
God Bless!

Chloe M.
You don’t even know what a can of worms you’re so carelessly opening. 😛

Anyway, there are indeed conflicting views and the founder of this site took some time to address the soulmate/(nonexistent) prince charming theory.

There is no evidence that the, “she was set apart for you before the world existed,” applies to anybody else than to whom it was said. God first of all gave us our natural gifts and even some supernatural ones, we’re supposed to make a good use of them. Also, we’re free.

The owner of some other website, although it’s difficult to establish the credentials of that person, holds a different view: raphael.net/scripture/marriage.htm. That’s the popular soulmate view. Plan for santification supposedly necessarily including one specific person to marry as a consequence of being called to marriage. IMHO the necessity doesn’t follow.

On the other hand we can’t use the argument of a disinterested God. That would be a deistic view. God actually is involved in our lives despite giving us freedom. And He cares. If He cares for every sparrow that falls from the sky and if every hair on our heads is counted, then the argument that God supposedly doesn’t really care whomever we marry doesn’t work. Although I’d be inclined to think that God would first of all care if it helps our salvation, secondly whether we’re happy on this earth, less so about matchmaking.

We can probably suppose that God does help us with opportunities, though, I think. Again, we’re not alone here.

What is bad theology is thinking that we can sit in our armchairs and feel entitled and God will sent us a bespoke girl or guy.

A good principle is to pray like all depends on God and try like all depends on you. Easier said than done. I don’t have it mastered, myself, either (or anywhere close to).

Another angle that personally gets me thinking is, “seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all those things shall be added unto you.” So I guess people who go out of their way to serve God and fellow man don’t really need to be chasing specifically. 😉 Otherwise we can’t really complain. Plus, a difficulty in finding someone to share life with is perhaps a mark of our times, a factual circumstance to deal with, just like other generations had e.g. shorter life expectancy. And indeed they had poverty restricting them from marriage or forcing them to put it off until they were like 35 years of age, especially men.
Unfortunately, while God may know who is best for us and intends us to marry that person, we often choose to make our own bad decisions, ignoring all the subtle hints and signs that a person may not be right for us, or letting our romantic feelings get in the way of sound judgment.😦
Feelings aren’t unimportant. They’re guides and they reflect your personality and some qualities of your spirit. They’re not there simply to deceive you. So, going against one’s feelings in a marriage of convenience isn’t really a great idea, just like it isn’t a great to idea to jump head first because of blind feelings.
Does God know the one?
He knows everything that has happened, is happening or will happen. As well as anything that could have happened. There’s just no such thing He doesn’t know. 😉
There are several examples from the Old Testament that suggest that you’re right on this one. Isaac and Rebecca, Ruth and Boaz - but my personal favourite is Tobias and Sarah from the Book of Tobit, in which the Angel Raphael more or less explicitly states that she is “the one” for Tobias. 🙂 Similarly, when He did not intend Jeremiah to be married, He told him so in no uncertain terms. I’m curious to see what others say on this, but the Bible is very good authority. 🙂
My impression is that Tobias wanted only to prolong the family, bring about a new generation to serve God, he wasn’t after companionship, let alone attraction. So it wasn’t really what we’re after. Most of us probably care a lot about companionship and attraction tends to be a significant issue.
I think it is more up to us who choose, look at the amount of not only Good Catholic’s but good people in general who are single and may never get married simply because they cannot find a husband/wife
Some of whom can’t because they haven’t tried hard enough, not always due to sheer laziness but sometimes some psychic circumstances. If it’s a consequence of one’s personality, then it’s hard to argue with.

Besides, I guess just like some people die in accidents before they can sin more, some others would have had a more sinful life or a worse (e.g. less peaceful) life if they actually had found someone to marry. Especially if they were to have married invalidly or struggled e.g. with openness to offspring. Or wouldn’t have been able to focus attention enough to guard a child from harm or focus their efforts enough to keep a wife or husband. We never know what would have happened otherwise.
 
I like the way C.S. Lewis explained this kind of question. As Lewis pointed out, God is not bounded by time any more than God is bounded by anything else, save the direction of his own will and his own nature. Rather, God sees all of time and space as one unbounded Here and Now. This is why God can simultaneously know your future without determining it: that is, because to see someone do something is obviously not the same as causing them to do it.

No matter what explanation helps you, never fear that Providence lacks in any detail of care for you. Know, however, that God truly has given each of us the gift of free will, so that we can act in the freedom of virtue. It is part of God’s plan to restrain his own hand in order to allow this freedom to grow to maturity. God cannot make sin anything other than a slavery; that is the nature of the consequences of choosing to act according to falsehood instead of according to the truth. Still, God must give us room to grow so that we choose virtue by an act of conforming our own will to God’s will without coersion.

This is from Chapter 8 of his book, The Screwtape Letters, (in which the senior devil, Screwtape, refers to God as the Enemy, of course):

“…You must have often wondered why the Enemy does not make more use of His power to be sensibly present to human souls in any degree He chooses and at any moment. But you now see that the Irresistible and the Indisputable are the two weapons which the very nature of His scheme forbids Him to use. Merely to override a human will (as His felt presence in any but the faintest and most mitigated degree would certainly do) would be for Him useless. He cannot ravish. He can only woo. For His ignoble idea is to eat the cake and have it; the creatures are to be one with Him, but yet themselves; merely to cancel them, or assimilate them, will not serve. He is prepared to do a little overriding at the beginning. He will set them off with communications of His presence which, though faint, seem great to them, with emotional sweetness, and easy conquest over temptation. Sooner or later He withdraws, if not in fact, at least from their conscious experience, all those supports and incentives. He leaves the creature to stand up on its own legs-- to carry out from the will alone duties which have lost all relish. It is during such trough periods, much more than during the peak periods, that it is growing into the sort of creature He wants it to be. Hence the prayers offered in the state of dryness are those which please Him best. We can drag our patients along by continual tempting, because we design them only for the table, and the more their will is interfered with the better. He cannot ‘tempt’ to virtue as we do to vice. He wants them to learn to walk and must therefore take away His hand; and if only the will to walk is really there He is pleased even with their stumbles. Do not be deceived, Wormwood. Our cause is never more in danger than when a human, no longer desiring, but still intending, to do our Enemy’s will, looks round upon a universe from which every trace of Him seems to have vanished, and asks why he has been forsaken, and still obeys…”
 
Unfortunately, while God may know who is best for us and intends us to marry that person,
That’s the part where I can’t follow the theological soulmate theory. If you don’t mind helping me understand, what is it that makes you think that God actually intends (a very strong verb) some single, specific person for us to marry? I accept the general premise that God cares enough on a personal level and has a unique relationship with every single one of us but I don’t know if this suffices to go as far as make the claim that God has a wife or husband set apart for everybody at least in His will (which we can act against or otherwise fail to follow).
 
That’s the part where I can’t follow the theological soulmate theory. If you don’t mind helping me understand, what is it that makes you think that God actually intends (a very strong verb) some single, specific person for us to marry? I accept the general premise that God cares enough on a personal level and has a unique relationship with every single one of us but I don’t know if this suffices to go as far as make the claim that God has a wife or husband set apart for everybody at least in His will (which we can act against or otherwise fail to follow).
I am one of the people that believes that God will give us guidance if we ask, but he does not have someone picked out for us.

We have free will. We go about life doing our best, and trying to follow God’s plan for humankind. Just think, God picks out someone to be your spouse, and they are killed at age eight in a car accident. Or you or they move across the country against “God’s will” - are you now unable to get married? No, I think there are many people each of us could marry and make a good and holy life.

And, as someone said downthread, when you read in the Bible that God said something to someone, trying to apply that universally to everyone or to you yourself is fraught with problems.
 
Well, God doesn’t “foresee” the future. He sees it, as you and I see the present moment. He already knows who it is you will choose, or who will choose you. This doesn’t change the importance of your choice, however. Always go to God, first, and pray much, about these things. Find a man of God, first and foremost. Pray the Rosary together. Go to Mass together. If he refuses to do these things, disqualify him!
Well, God doesn’t “foresee” the future.
Time is relative only as humans see it. Since God is the Creator of all things He permeates an ineffable part of Himself in all seen an unseen while existing in Eternity and Time at the same momemt. Paradoxically there is no Past, Present or Future in His infinite eternal existance.
He endows us with the great gift of Freedom to make good or evil choices. God’s infinite Wisdom is inconceivable greater than the finiteness of the Universe itself. We see and understand God in creation as a mere infant.
 
Well, predestination is not the same as destiny…but God, omniscent and outside of time, necessarily knows this, among many other things :rolleyes: As centurionguard nicely explains, God, while endowing us with authentic free will, is not in any way diminished, nor is He in any way under the constraint of time.

The fact (ignored my many) is that not all are called to marry…some are called to consecrated life, others even to a life of celibacy as lay faithful 🙂 All are beautiful vocations 🙂 But if we go ahead with the erroneous mentality that we ought to marry at all cost, and start looking for a soulmate left and right basing our choice on our imperfect reasonings, desires, and ideals (often tainted by our natural inclination to judge based on appearance), we can end in trouble.

I’ll ask you a question: do you think that it is by mere chance that Our Lady married St. Joseph? 😉
 
I like the way C.S. Lewis explained this kind of question. As Lewis pointed out, God is not bounded by time any more than God is bounded by anything else, save the direction of his own will and his own nature. Rather, God sees all of time and space as one unbounded Here and Now. This is why God can simultaneously know your future without determining it: that is, because to see someone do something is obviously not the same as causing them to do it.

No matter what explanation helps you, never fear that Providence lacks in any detail of care for you. Know, however, that God truly has given each of us the gift of free will, so that we can act in the freedom of virtue. It is part of God’s plan to restrain his own hand in order to allow this freedom to grow to maturity. God cannot make sin anything other than a slavery; that is the nature of the consequences of choosing to act according to falsehood instead of according to the truth. Still, God must give us room to grow so that we choose virtue by an act of conforming our own will to God’s will without coersion.

This is from Chapter 8 of his book, The Screwtape Letters, (in which the senior devil, Screwtape, refers to God as the Enemy, of course):

“…You must have often wondered why the Enemy does not make more use of His power to be sensibly present to human souls in any degree He chooses and at any moment. But you now see that the Irresistible and the Indisputable are the two weapons which the very nature of His scheme forbids Him to use. Merely to override a human will (as His felt presence in any but the faintest and most mitigated degree would certainly do) would be for Him useless. He cannot ravish. He can only woo. For His ignoble idea is to eat the cake and have it; the creatures are to be one with Him, but yet themselves; merely to cancel them, or assimilate them, will not serve. He is prepared to do a little overriding at the beginning. He will set them off with communications of His presence which, though faint, seem great to them, with emotional sweetness, and easy conquest over temptation. Sooner or later He withdraws, if not in fact, at least from their conscious experience, all those supports and incentives. He leaves the creature to stand up on its own legs-- to carry out from the will alone duties which have lost all relish. It is during such trough periods, much more than during the peak periods, that it is growing into the sort of creature He wants it to be. Hence the prayers offered in the state of dryness are those which please Him best. We can drag our patients along by continual tempting, because we design them only for the table, and the more their will is interfered with the better. He cannot ‘tempt’ to virtue as we do to vice. He wants them to learn to walk and must therefore take away His hand; and if only the will to walk is really there He is pleased even with their stumbles. Do not be deceived, Wormwood. Our cause is never more in danger than when a human, no longer desiring, but still intending, to do our Enemy’s will, looks round upon a universe from which every trace of Him seems to have vanished, and asks why he has been forsaken, and still obeys…”
I definitely agree with this, C.S Lewis put it better than anyone ever could
 
Well, predestination is not the same as destiny…but God, omniscent and outside of time, necessarily knows this, among many other things :rolleyes: As centurionguard nicely explains, God, while endowing us with authentic free will, is not in any way diminished, nor is He in any way under the constraint of time.

The fact (ignored my many) is that not all are called to marry…some are called to consecrated life, others even to a life of celibacy as lay faithful 🙂 All are beautiful vocations 🙂 But if we go ahead with the erroneous mentality that we ought to marry at all cost, and start looking for a soulmate left and right basing our choice on our imperfect reasonings, desires, and ideals (often tainted by our natural inclination to judge based on appearance), we can end in trouble.

I’ll ask you a question: do you think that it is by mere chance that Our Lady married St. Joseph? 😉
Knowing God; He never does anything thing by accident. Everthing that has been set out in His creation (“according to His Will”) does not return to Him without doing that first which He alone planned from the very beginning, returning and giving Him Glory.

Was the Blessed Virgin Mary birth by accident? No. Was her betrothal to Joseph mere coincidence? No.

Concerning the Blessed Virgin Mary and a famous quote from the late Archbishop Sheen in his book (“The World’s First Love”)
“Dedicated to the Woman I love, The Woman whom even God dreamed of before the world was made; The Woman of whom I was born, at cost of pain and labor at a Cross. The Woman who, though no priest, could yet on Calvary’s Hill breathe: ‘This is my Body; this is my Blood.’ For none save her gave Him human life. The Woman who guides my pen, which falters so with words, in telling of the Word. The Woman who, in a world of Reds, shows forth the blue of hope.”
 
Knowing God; He never does anything thing by accident. Everthing that has been set out in His creation (“according to His Will”) does not return to Him without doing that first which He alone planned from the very beginning, returning and giving Him Glory.

Was the Blessed Virgin Mary birth by accident? No. Was her betrothal to Joseph mere coincidence? No.

Concerning the Blessed Virgin Mary and a famous quote from the late Archbishop Sheen in his book (“The World’s First Love”)
Thanks!!

I should have mentioned that my question was meant for chevalier 😛 But in retrospective I am glad I didn’t because your reply was very interesting.
 
I am one of the people that believes that God will give us guidance if we ask, but he does not have someone picked out for us.

We have free will. We go about life doing our best, and trying to follow God’s plan for humankind. Just think, God picks out someone to be your spouse, and they are killed at age eight in a car accident. Or you or they move across the country against “God’s will” - are you now unable to get married? No, I think there are many people each of us could marry and make a good and holy life.
Well, God has foreknowledge, He knows what will happen before it happens. So He also knows whether we will have followed His will or not. While we’re not bound, God knows what we will have chosen. So He can reconcile the plans with the knowledge that e.g. someone will not actually live past 8, which God knew before that person was conceived (or in fact really before world existed).

But like you I have some reservations about the “micromanagement” at case here. However, I question myself whether this presumption against micronagement doesn’t in fact come down to my refusing to grasp that God just simply does care enough to deal with every single human person singularly and not in blocks. As an analogy, a mortal king or president can’t form a relationship with every single subject or citizen, while for God that’s not a problem and He has a more intimate relationship with any of us than our own parents and indeed knows each of us better than we know ourselves, cares more about us than we do about ourselves. I really fear that the “God doesn’t arrange things like that” argument can contain traces of “God doesn’t care enough”, the latter being an obvious untruth (trace of mortal limitationst that we could be projecting on God). Notwithstanding our freedom that means we can actually act against those plans (and then only in so far as God will allow it to happen).
And, as someone said downthread, when you read in the Bible that God said something to someone, trying to apply that universally to everyone or to you yourself is fraught with problems.
Yeah, I said that too. The Tobias argument doesn’t hold. It’s just that the refutations of “the one” theory don’t seem to hold either. They do seem to contain a trace of supposition that God doesn’t care individually enough for every single one of us as to enter our lives so intimately and non-standardly.

In abstract terms as long as there exists a single person best suited for us from the point of view of following God’s will in our lives (be it our happiness or our sanctification or something else*), then God knows who that person is and it would seem to follow that God would prefer that we marry that person rather than some other person.
  • But it would not hold water to think that God’s will equals the person having whatever qualities we find desireable. That would be our own will taking advantage of perfect knowledge, not God’s will. Same way, it might even not be the most compatible person there is in terms of personality. Or the most peaceful and fulfilling marriage we could have. I would suspect a marriage that would make us the holiest in the end, that possibly being a lifetime struggle for someone’s conversion of heart, for example. Or a marriage equipped with opportunities to practice forgiveness (meaning one in which we do get to be wronged and suffer).
For this reason it’s hard for me to think that God might actually be indifferent on the issue, given what it means in our lives, as opposed to just being an expression of our taste in the opposite gender.

Thus I’m sort of stuck between the two positions. Neither seems to hold water (the arguments are unsatisfying), even though they seem to be mutually exclusive of each other and cover everything, so that one of them would seem to need to be true.
I’ll ask you a question: do you think that it is by mere chance that Our Lady married St. Joseph? 😉
We are merely individual. Our Lady was special. She was indeed set apart, chosen. We are not exactly an anonymous crowd (that’d be projecting a mortal limitation on God) to Our Father, but we aren’t as special as Our Lady.
 
In response: My mother was saying she watched a 20/20 show on a family that had lots of older, Christian girls, (eligible for marriage, age-wise) but they didn’t go to college or the job world after highschool, they stayed at home and waited to get married.

I disagree with this - our relationship with God is a two-way street, we have to plant the seeds, and water the garden in order to reap the harvest. So believeing that “Well, God has the guy I’m supposed to marry in His plans, so I don’t have to do anything.” This is false.

I believe that, if God is calling me to the vocation of marriage, then somewhere out there, He is preparing a guy to be my future husband, similarly to how He is preparing me to be a future wife.

Right now, as a high school senior, I don’t need my future husband to be my boyfriend. I want him to be a mature, young, Catholic man who is able to utilize the blessing of the season of singleness to prepare to be a Godly husband and father.

On the other hand, I don’t want or need to be some guy’s girlfriend. I need to be a mature, young, Catholic woman who is able to utilize my blessing of being a single person so that I can prepare to be a Godly wife and mother.

With both of us working towards preparing our hearts for the other, how awesome is it going to be when God brings us together Both of us will be prepared mentally, physically, financially, emotionally, and most importantly, spiritually for each other!
 
In response: My mother was saying she watched a 20/20 show on a family that had lots of older, Christian girls, (eligible for marriage, age-wise) but they didn’t go to college or the job world after highschool, they stayed at home and waited to get married.

I disagree with this - our relationship with God is a two-way street, we have to plant the seeds, and water the garden in order to reap the harvest. So believeing that “Well, God has the guy I’m supposed to marry in His plans, so I don’t have to do anything.” This is false.
I agree entirely with this. It’s very much the same way we pray “give us today our daily bread” and trust in God’s providence, but we also go to work, plant our crops, etc. We cooperate with providence.
I believe that, if God is calling me to the vocation of marriage, then somewhere out there, He is preparing a guy to be my future husband, similarly to how He is preparing me to be a future wife.

Right now, as a high school senior, I don’t need my future husband to be my boyfriend. I want him to be a mature, young, Catholic man who is able to utilize the blessing of the season of singleness to prepare to be a Godly husband and father.

On the other hand, I don’t want or need to be some guy’s girlfriend. I need to be a mature, young, Catholic woman who is able to utilize my blessing of being a single person so that I can prepare to be a Godly wife and mother.

With both of us working towards preparing our hearts for the other, how awesome is it going to be when God brings us together Both of us will be prepared mentally, physically, financially, emotionally, and most importantly, spiritually for each other!
On the other hand, I wonder if this is an overly romanticised expectation. Your future husband is a sinner, and there will be aspects of his personality, life experiences, and past that are not ideal. His past may not fit your expectations of being prepared by God.

Also, at some point (I don’t mean to imply now) you will be some guy’s girlfriend. One doesn’t go from single to married in one step. You should not expect that the first guy you call boyfriend will be the one you marry. At some stage you will have to begin courting/dating and discerning whether each guy is the right one. The first may be…but probably wont be.
 
We are merely individual. Our Lady was special. She was indeed set apart, chosen. We are not exactly an anonymous crowd (that’d be projecting a mortal limitation on God) to Our Father, but we aren’t as special as Our Lady.
Ok, I do concede that She is very, very special, and so is St. Joseph 🙂

What about Tobia and Sarah, then? 😉
 
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