Does God know whether I will go to heaven or hell before I was born?

[oldcelt]

I don’t think so. I was created by God with the assistance of my father, and my mother (because He chose to do it this way, He could have done it another way). A human being is a composite of a soul and a body. My body is provided by my parents. If my mother and father are substituted with other people, then I wouldn’t exist…someone else would.

Also, I would like to know, as a Deist, what do you believe happens to a person after they die?

God bless

Uncertain. There is some possibility for a retention of consciousness because our thoughts and, memories are energy. It would be a dream-like state most likely.

 

[Aloysium]

God doesn’t exist in time. Only we exist in time. He sees past, present and future simultaneously, in an eternal instant. God is like a man standing on top of a mountain, seeing all below in a single view. So he knows out future, seeing us in our future simultaneously as He sees us now. In fact, He sees all time simultaneously, from the beginning of the universe to the end of the universe.
The people below the mountain keep their freedom to chose their actions.
You ask if God sees what will become of me. However, there is no will be nor was when God looks upon us (something the preceding post spoke about). God sees all time as He does in an eternal instant.
God created time along with the universe. When did God live before He created the universe? Nowhen. God lives outside time in eternity.
This can seem hard to understand now. But we can know this after we have passed away.

God maintains every now that has been, is and will be,
relative to the moment,
as we ride the wave of time on a platform of finite eternity,
the here and now of our individual being
experiencing the flow of time.

His compassion envelops every thought, every emotion, the totality of who we are.
When we lose hope, scream to the heavens, empty in their seeming indifference, He is here on the cross with us.
Our lives hang in the all-encompassing Now of His infinite love.
Participants in this cosmic process of creation, it is we who mould our lives that we have chosen ourselves.

Whether we end up frozen in sin, becoming the unquestionably real suffering in the unchanging forever now of hell,
through which we can now venture in and out, in time,
or whether we soar in the freedom of infinite life
is a choice determined by a myriad of actions judged and redeemed by Love.

All Glory is Yours, Almighty Father.

 

[SeekerofTruth27]

Uncertain. There is some possibility for a retention of consciousness because our thoughts and, memories are energy. It would be a dream-like state most likely.

Thanks for the info, I didn’t know what the Deist teaching was on the afterlife.

BTW, what did you think of my explanation as to why God couldn’t just give us different parents?

God bless

 

[oldcelt]

Thanks for the info, I didn’t know what the Deist teaching was on the afterlife.

BTW, what did you think of my explanation as to why God couldn’t just give us different parents?

God bless

You make a strong point, but would you in any way know the difference?

Be well,

John

 

[SeekerofTruth27]

You make a strong point, but would you in any way know the difference?

Be well,

John

Whether or not I would know the difference doesn’t change the fact that the difference would exist.

God bless

 

[oldcelt]

Whether or not I would know the difference doesn’t change the fact that the difference would exist.

God bless

Somehow I think that the Creator could get around that. Remember, that person hasn’t even been born yet. But I do see your point…I guess I just don’t share your concern.

 

[PutresOmega]

So…the Christian God creates with full knowledge that a person will be condemned,even before they are born and can commit the slightest sin. Yet, He still creates that person…Hmmmm…but He does give that person free will…free will that He knows the outcome for BEFORE the person is conceived.
Not such a great deal…ya think? Sounds to me like…I’ll hold off out of respect for the forum.

This is pretty much what drove me to the concept of Universalism (or that God will eventually cleanse everyone of muck and use our failings to teach and better us and that everyone will be saved, eventually). I believe in God because I intuitively feel His presence and what I have experienced on the doorstep of death does not point to a malicious entity who would cast people into hell for all eternity like some omnicidal tyrant. I can’t conceive of a God with less mercy in His heart than I have in mine. If I can forgive and even love the hard-hearted and those who have hurt me when they have not begged my forgiveness, then why can’t God be that big? Why is God’s love so inferior to that of a human? It is a theology that reeks of self aggrandizing idolatry that places man’s morality on a pedestal above God’s. An error born of flesh.

 

[SeekerofTruth27]

This is pretty much what drove me to the concept of Universalism (or that God will eventually cleanse everyone of muck and use our failings to teach and better us and that everyone will be saved, eventually). I believe in God because I intuitively feel His presence and what I have experienced on the doorstep of death does not point to a malicious entity who would cast people into hell for all eternity like some omnicidal tyrant. I can’t conceive of a God with less mercy in His heart than I have in mine. If I can forgive and even love the hard-hearted and those who have hurt me when they have not begged my forgiveness, then why can’t God be that big? Why is God’s love so inferior to that of a human? It is a theology that reeks of self aggrandizing idolatry that places man’s morality on a pedestal above God’s. An error born of flesh.

But what if a person doesn’t want to be with God? That is what the Church teaches, that people who go to hell go because they don’t want to be with God. Since He is in Heaven they can’t go there, so they choose hell instead.

Think of it this way: The joining of a husband and wife in marriage through the marital act is a symbol of us being completely joined with Our Lord in Heaven. However, if the wife does not wish to take part in the marital act, the man must refrain from having sex with her. To force her to do so would be rape. Even though he loves her, she must love him also in order for the act to be holy. In this situation, he must honor her wishes and deny his own desires. Likewise, Our Lord cannot unite us fully to Him if we do not desire it as it would be wrong to do so. It is our a choice.

God bless

 

[oldcelt]

This is pretty much what drove me to the concept of Universalism (or that God will eventually cleanse everyone of muck and use our failings to teach and better us and that everyone will be saved, eventually). I believe in God because I intuitively feel His presence and what I have experienced on the doorstep of death does not point to a malicious entity who would cast people into hell for all eternity like some omnicidal tyrant. I can’t conceive of a God with less mercy in His heart than I have in mine. If I can forgive and even love the hard-hearted and those who have hurt me when they have not begged my forgiveness, then why can’t God be that big? Why is God’s love so inferior to that of a human? It is a theology that reeks of self aggrandizing idolatry that places man’s morality on a pedestal above God’s. An error born of flesh.

It is good to not be totally alone in this.

John

 

[Sean_St_Jude]

Romans 11:33, “Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How inscrutable are his judgments and how unsearchable his ways!” Emphasis mine.

You must trust and love God, and you must be careful because when you pick God’s ways apart, unless you do it as, or with, a good theologian, Satan could pick up on doubts and try to fool you.

Remember what is says in 1 Peter 5:6-11: 6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, so that he may exalt you in due time. 7 Cast all your anxiety on him, because he cares for you. 8 Discipline yourselves, keep alert. Like a roaring lion your adversary the devil prowls around, looking for someone to devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in your faith, for you know that your brothers and sisters in all the world are undergoing the same kinds of suffering. 10 And after you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, support, strengthen, and establish you. 11 To him be the power forever and ever. Amen.

I feel strongly about your concerns because, if you’re young, they seem to be concerns of a young person trying to question either God’s goodness or God Himself, so they can fly the coop and do as they please, so to speak.

No offense, OK? Because no offense is meant.

God bless you,

 

[Sean_St_Jude]

God does not give us free will. We have it through a lack of interference on His part. If He intervenes on the part of one, He has altered the course of the world for all people and required different decisions. So far as God-man covenants, I don’t believe they ever happened.
Sin is God related…we call it crime or nothing at all.

Earth is a wonderful place and provides wonderfully some of the time. For that I thank Him everyday, even though I believe his role in its creation was indirect. But, how about famine and starvation in areas of the world? Are those people all undeserving or evil?

oldcelt, Respectfully, you might have read the Bible many times over, but you don’t get it, from what I’ve been able to see.

Hell and the starving people of the world are stumbling blocks for many, including myself, but we choose our eternity right here and now. You start your Heaven or Hell right here. You will end up in either place, and God knows where you’ll end up, but you will be the one choosing that which God already knows.

So, do you really pray every day humbly and with faith? If you do, keep on going. I was away from the Catholic Church for over twenty-five years and I prayed for God to show me the way through Jesus Christ. And He plucked me out of a pretty depraved and promiscuous life and brought me back to the Church and absolute chastity (14 Years).

And about those who are starving, how often do you try to make a difference and donate to legit, reputable charities? God actually works through us and we should help those who are less fortunate. I try to practice that always and I’m far from being well-off. Not tooting my horn, just saying we have a responsibility which we can’t shake off on God and then point to him accusingly. We must always speak of God with reverence.

I hope you find the true way. I suggest going to a good priest for a good talk/confession so you can be back among us Catholics. If you doubt the Word of God, as you state in other posts, then who is it you belong to?

 

[Sean_St_Jude]

One thing I’ve meant to share in this tread is that I heard something a while back that made perfect sense to me. I don’t remember where, but it was probably in one of my theology books or from a priest or nun, and what they said is, “The real pain of Hell is knowing that you will never know God, your Creator, and the fires of Hell actually assuage the pain.” So fire is not the worst of Hell, but like a balm that soothes your pain, if I may.

We long for God and we have a sense of security and well-being which is God-given. We are also on a constant search for love, happiness and joy. Can you imagine living without any of that and feeling the void forever just because we rejected Jesus Christ?

 

[MarcoPG]

Interesting, like saying, for a consolation, at least there is justice?

But I don’t know if the damned see this as justice as we do, since their pride is the cause of their damnation, and they will not repent. Pride doesn’t disappear in Hell. It is its cause.

 

[JakeAugustine]

It is in itself a paradox, but free will and predestination co-exist. Straight from St. Thomas. I don’t have time to elaborate but that is my two cents.

 

[oldcelt]

Romans 11:33, “Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How inscrutable are his judgments and how unsearchable his ways!” Emphasis mine.

You must trust and love God, and you must be careful because when you pick God’s ways apart, unless you do it as, or with, a good theologian, Satan could pick up on doubts and try to fool you.

Remember what is says in 1 Peter 5:6-11: 6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, so that he may exalt you in due time. 7 Cast all your anxiety on him, because he cares for you. 8 Discipline yourselves, keep alert. Like a roaring lion your adversary the devil prowls around, looking for someone to devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in your faith, for you know that your brothers and sisters in all the world are undergoing the same kinds of suffering. 10 And after you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, support, strengthen, and establish you. 11 To him be the power forever and ever. Amen.

I feel strongly about your concerns because, if you’re young, they seem to be concerns of a young person trying to question either God’s goodness or God Himself, so they can fly the coop and do as they please, so to speak.

No offense, OK? Because no offense is meant.

God bless you,

Unless you consider 57 young, then I am not young. Just one who, after a long journey arrived at a different understanding of the nature and function of God. Apparently, I see the world differently than most here, but that is no sin.

 

[oldcelt]

oldcelt, Respectfully, you might have read the Bible many times over, but you don’t get it, from what I’ve been able to see.

Hell and the starving people of the world are stumbling blocks for many, including myself, but we choose our eternity right here and now. You start your Heaven or Hell right here. You will end up in either place, and God knows where you’ll end up, but you will be the one choosing that which God already knows.

So, do you really pray every day humbly and with faith? If you do, keep on going. I was away from the Catholic Church for over twenty-five years and I prayed for God to show me the way through Jesus Christ. And He plucked me out of a pretty depraved and promiscuous life and brought me back to the Church and absolute chastity (14 Years).

And about those who are starving, how often do you try to make a difference and donate to legit, reputable charities? God actually works through us and we should help those who are less fortunate. I try to practice that always and I’m far from being well-off. Not tooting my horn, just saying we have a responsibility which we can’t shake off on God and then point to him accusingly. We must always speak of God with reverence.

I hope you find the true way. I suggest going to a good priest for a good talk/confession so you can be back among us Catholics. If you doubt the Word of God, as you state in other posts, then who is it you belong to?

To God, the same as you. All the rest is a matter of human interpretation.

 

[MarcoPG]

To God, the same as you. All the rest is a matter of human interpretation.

What God? If it is the same as ours, then we have revelation from Him. The one far far away that you may or may not know? Do you belong to someone who doesn’t care? For us Revelation never conflicts with freedom. And it guides us. How are you guided, if you are?

 

[oldcelt]

What God? If it is the same as ours, then we have revelation from Him. The one far far away that you may or may not know? Do you belong to someone who doesn’t care? For us Revelation never conflicts with freedom. And it guides us. How are you guided, if you are?

No on revelation…we find it to be a completely unreliable. The creator, the reason we have a world to live in, to enjoy, to improve and to, if we like, populate. I am guided by the human morality that had developed over thousands of years and has been passed to me by those who came before. It is an ongoing process, not a completed work.
You seem to be a bit obsessed with my “belonging” to someone. I honestly don’t know what that means.

 

[Sean_St_Jude]

Romans 11:33, “Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How inscrutable are his judgments and how unsearchable his ways!” Emphasis mine.

You must trust and love God, and you must be careful because when you pick God’s ways apart, unless you do it as, or with, a good theologian, Satan could pick up on doubts and try to fool you.

Remember what is says in 1 Peter 5:6-11: 6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, so that he may exalt you in due time. 7 Cast all your anxiety on him, because he cares for you. 8 Discipline yourselves, keep alert. Like a roaring lion your adversary the devil prowls around, looking for someone to devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in your faith, for you know that your brothers and sisters in all the world are undergoing the same kinds of suffering. 10 And after you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, support, strengthen, and establish you. 11 To him be the power forever and ever. Amen.

I feel strongly about your concerns because, if you’re young, they seem to be concerns of a young person trying to question either God’s goodness or God Himself, so they can fly the coop and do as they please, so to speak.

No offense, OK? Because no offense is meant.

God bless you,

oldcelt, I meant this one for xxxxx. Sorry about the confusion. and, hey, if you’re 57, you’re still young, at least in my eyes. I’m 58!

 

[MarcoPG]

No on revelation…we find it to be a completely unreliable. The creator, the reason we have a world to live in, to enjoy, to improve and to, if we like, populate. I am guided by the human morality that had developed over thousands of years and has been passed to me by those who came before. It is an ongoing process, not a completed work.
You seem to be a bit obsessed with my “belonging” to someone. I honestly don’t know what that means.

We recieved Revelation from God, why should it be unreliable? I AM spoke. And then the Son (“where else would we go”?) and the Spirit came. So you don’t accept revelation, fine, but God revealed, so how is it unreliable?

And I understand you may think I am obsessed about you belonging to someone (that was actually Jude, above, but I am interested too ), but you said you belong to God. So I am then interested in how you can say you belong to God, not knowing if He is personal and not knowing what that means. You seem to know that God is the Creator; isn’t He the master of the creation maybe?