Does God leave anything to chance for us humans in this world?

[seagal]

He may not even know that we are here.There is no evidence one way or the other.

The bible, as the inspired word of God, is evidence (not proof) of his existence. He revealed himself to his people through certain prophets. He also sent his son to us.

 

[oldcelt]

The bible, as the inspired word of God, is evidence (not proof) of his existence. He revealed himself to his people through certain prophets. He also sent his son to us.

Someone, a thousand years from now, could find “Gone With the Wind” and think that is was significant. At least it has one author. So far as prophets…not much so far as evidence goes…since they are the only ones who heard,saw, felt, anything.

 

[Richca]

Is there any such thing as a car ‘accident,’ for example? If yes, would you agree that God can protect us from such accidents? For example, is praying to God for a ‘safe journey home’ fruitless?

I personally do not believe that God leaves anything to chance; all is known, and everything is in the hands of God.

The implications seem to be profound here and worthy of thought. I would contend that it would be a heresy to deny that God leaves anything to chance.

LOVE!

Hi Robert,

It is written “Indeed, she [Wisdom] spans the world from end to end mightily
and governs all things well” (Wisdom 8:1).

And “For from him and through him and for him are all things” (Romans 11:36).

And the CCC says “And so we see the Holy Spirit, the principal author of Sacred Scripture, often attributing actions to God without mentioning any secondary causes. This is not a “primitive mode of speech”, but a profound way of recalling God’s primacy and absolute Lordship over history and the world, and so of educating his people to trust in him” (#304).

And “The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator. God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes” (CCC#308).

Now every seemingly chance event in the world has a cause, and all particular, proximate or secondary causes are reduced to the Universal or First Cause which is God. Consequently, nothing happens in the world by chance as if some event in the world could take place without God’s knowledge and will. For God’s knowledge extends as far as His causality extends and His causality extends to all being in whatever mode or manner of being. Thus St Thomas Aquinas says “Things are said to be fortuitous as regards some particular cause from the order of which they escape. But as to the order of divine providence, nothing in the world happens by chance as Augustine declares” (ST I, Q. 103, Art. 7.)

 

[Ion]

I think I can rephrase the question into: did God embed in this Universe a law of chance? Uncertainty principle says yes.

 

[tonyrey]

Hi Robert,

It is written “Indeed, she [Wisdom] spans the world from end to end mightily
and governs all things well” (Wisdom 8:1).

And “For from him and through him and for him are all things” (Romans 11:36).

And the CCC says “And so we see the Holy Spirit, the principal author of Sacred Scripture, often attributing actions to God without mentioning any secondary causes. This is not a “primitive mode of speech”, but a profound way of recalling God’s primacy and absolute Lordship over history and the world, and so of educating his people to trust in him” (#304).

And “The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator. God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes” (CCC#308).

:clapping: A superb analysis. Aquinas pointed out:

Now every seemingly chance event in the world has a cause, and all particular, proximate or secondary causes are reduced to the Universal or First Cause which is God. Consequently, nothing happens in the world by chance as if some event in the world could take place without God’s knowledge and will. For God’s knowledge extends as far as His causality extends and His causality extends to all being in whatever mode or manner of being. Thus St Thomas Aquinas says “Things are said to be fortuitous as regards some particular cause from the order of which they escape. But as to the order of divine providence, nothing in the world happens by chance as Augustine declares” (ST I, Q. 103, Art. 7.)

newadvent.org/summa/1049.htm

He also explained the role of accidents in God’s Creation:

Evil, however, has a cause by way of an agent, not directly, but accidentally.

In proof of this, we must know that evil is caused in the action otherwise than in the effect. In the action evil is caused by reason of the defect of some principle of action, either of the principal or the instrumental agent; thus the **defect **in the movement of an animal may happen by reason of the weakness of the motive power, as in the case of children, or by reason only of the ineptitude of the instrument, as in the lame. On the other hand, evil is caused in a thing, but not in the proper effect of the agent, sometimes by the power of the agent, sometimes by reason of a defect, either of the agent or of the matter. It is caused by reason of the power or perfection of the agent when there necessarily follows on the form intended by the agent the privation of another form; as, for instance, when on the form of fire there follows the **privation **of the form of air or of water. Therefore, as the more perfect the fire is in strength, so much the more perfectly does it impress its own form, so also the more perfectly does it corrupt the contrary. Hence that evil and corruption befall air and water comes from the perfection of the fire: but this is accidental; because fire does not aim at the privation of the form of water, but at the bringing in of its own form, though by doing this it also accidentally causes the other. But if there is a defect in the proper effect of the fire–as, for instance, that it fails to heat–this comes either by **defect **of the action, which implies the defect of some principle, as was said above, or by the **indisposition **of the matter, which does not receive the action of the fire, the agent. But this very fact that it is a **deficient **being is **accidental **to good to which of itself it belongs to act. Hence it is true that evil in no way has any but an **accidental **cause; and thus is good the cause of evil.

Irrefutable! This explanation applies to disasters, diseases, deformities and disorders of every description in the natural world.

 

[tonyrey]

Someone, a thousand years from now, could find “Gone With the Wind” and think that is was significant. At least it has one author. So far as prophets…not much so far as evidence goes…since they are the only ones who heard,saw, felt, anything.

Two thousand years from now Jesus will still have fulfilled the prophecies in the Old Testament made more than five hundred years before He was born…

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Hi Robert,

It is written “Indeed, she [Wisdom] spans the world from end to end mightily
and governs all things well” (Wisdom 8:1).

And “For from him and through him and for him are all things” (Romans 11:36).

And the CCC says “And so we see the Holy Spirit, the principal author of Sacred Scripture, often attributing actions to God without mentioning any secondary causes. This is not a “primitive mode of speech”, but a profound way of recalling God’s primacy and absolute Lordship over history and the world, and so of educating his people to trust in him” (#304).

And “The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator. God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes” (CCC#308).

Now every seemingly chance event in the world has a cause, and all particular, proximate or secondary causes are reduced to the Universal or First Cause which is God. Consequently, nothing happens in the world by chance as if some event in the world could take place without God’s knowledge and will. For God’s knowledge extends as far as His causality extends and His causality extends to all being in whatever mode or manner of being. Thus St Thomas Aquinas says “Things are said to be fortuitous as regards some particular cause from the order of which they escape. But as to the order of divine providence, nothing in the world happens by chance as Augustine declares” (ST I, Q. 103, Art. 7.)

Thank you. Looks like a lot of our readers have not read their Bibles or their Aquinas. Or perhaps they find the Pied Pipers of modern Cosmology just too irresistable.

Linus2nd

 

[StevenFrancis]

Is there any such thing as a car ‘accident,’ for example?

Yes. We are created with free will. There is chance, chaos, sin and all kinds of stuff available in this universe.

If yes, would you agree that God can protect us from such accidents?
CAN He? Perhaps. We won’t know entirely until the last day, (either personally or communally), when all will be revealed. But maybe not, either. He creates person “A” and person “B”. They are each created with free will. Persons A and B are both driving at night, and person B bends down to pick up a CD she dropped on the floorboard, taking her eyes off the road, and plows head on into the car driven by person A. Person A is killed. This is as a result of person B’s negligence. It doesn’t diminish the fact that both persons A & B are creations, and in the image and likeness of God. It doesn’t mean that God loves person B more or less than person A. God’s creations of free will, gravity, physics, etc. all played a part in ending one persons physical life. The rain falls on the good and bad alike. The big question is, are we in love with our creator? Are we okay with giving up this life on a moment’s notice, and being with our God for eternity?

For example, is praying to God for a ‘safe journey home’ fruitless?
Absolutely not. Our prayers are our communications, conversations, and letters to God. See the book of Psalms. Though God “knows” what we want, He also know what we need. Just as our earthly Fathers. We go to our earthly fathers and ask permission to do something. Our earthly father will either say yes or no. When he says no, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t love us. It means he knows something more about what we are asking than we ourselves do, and his answer is based on that knowledge. God always derives a greater good from earthly tragedy. He always hears our prayers, and answers yes or no based on what we “need”, what is good for us, and how it connects up with the God’s will in ways which may or may not understand or even appreciate. But He’s God. We give Him the benefit of the doubt, just as our earthly parents. He has knowledge we don’t. It’s on a much grander scale that earth parents, but the concept is the same. We still ask. We still pray.

I personally do not believe that God leaves anything to chance; all is known, and everything is in the hands of God.

That would take away the point of us as a creation. Without man’s free will, then God can’t love us. You can’t love a wind up toy, or a robot. He does know everything in the sense of He is outside of time, and every new thing that happens creates the fullness of time which or course He sees all of before, during, and after it happens. All in one totality. But within time, all is till decisions from free will endowed creatures. Sometimes, God will alter something in a way that we can notice WITHIN time. This is what we call miracles. I believe this is answers to prayers where our request for intervention doesn’t contradict the will of God, but was perhaps not in the standard trajectory. An angel might fiddle with something on God’s behalf, in order to provide an alteration to a decision we’ve made with our will. Or to prevent the effect of someone elses bad decision. This is not the norm. It’s special. I believe in miracles. In extraordinary intervention. If it was for everyone at all time, it wouldn’t be extraordinary, nor miraculous, and would also mean that free will was meaningless. Which would once again, get back to the meaningless robot thing.

The implications seem to be profound here and worthy of thought. I would contend that it would be a heresy to deny that God leaves anything to chance.

It says in the scriptures that God makes His rain fall on everyone. Whatever happens with that here in our lives is based on our free will, decisions, and frankly, sometimes, just being at the right/wrong place at the exact right/wrong time. By chance. I think we agree based on your final sentence unless I’m reading it wrong.

 

[davidv]

How is that David?

My existence is evidence of God

Billions of others don’t prove anything except that humans are good at reproduction.

You asked for evidence. That is what I presented. As I predicted, you don’t accept it.

You didn’t ask for proof. Besides this isn’t a math problems so proofs don’t apply.

 

[tonyrey]

He may not even know that we are here.There is no evidence one way or the other.

It is absurd to think the Creator of this incredibly vast, complex and awe-spiring universe doesn’t even know we are here…

 

[oldcelt]

It is absurd to think the Creator of this incredibly vast, complex and awe-spiring universe doesn’t even know we are here…

Why? If God is the initiator of creation, as I believe, then He is not a micro-manager. There could be a great deal going on that He has yet to encounter. Maybe we are insignificant to God.
In an incredibly vast, complex, and awe-inspiring universe, It seems to me that many things are possible…

 

[Bahman]

There are two sources of what call chance from our perspective:

1. Everything is connected
2. There is an intellect behind it

 

[tonyrey]

Why? If God is the initiator of creation, as I believe, then He is not a micro-manager. There could be a great deal going on that He has yet to encounter. Maybe we are insignificant to God.
In an incredibly vast, complex, and awe-inspiring universe, It seems to me that many things are possible…

You grossly underestimate the insight, knowledge and power of the Creator of this incredibly vast, complex, and awe-inspiring universe. Creation is not a once-for-all affair but a continuous process in which everything and everyone are sustained in existence. God constantly intervenes to direct the development of life and prevent it from becoming extinct on this planet.

It is absurd to believe the exquisite design of the DNA information system has been produced by purposeless coincidences. Darwin himself admitted the thought of the human eye made him have doubts. Chance is a hopelessly inadequate explanation of the power of reason, self-control and the immense value of life.

The vast majority of living beings are unaffected by natural disasters, many of which have been caused by human folly, greed and selfishness. As Leibniz pointed out, houses are far more common than hospitals. Living organisms have survived for billions of years in spite of several mass species extinctions from global cataclysms. The greatest threat to survival is not nature but man, demonstrating not only the power of the mind over matter but its power of destruction. To imagine such an “insignificant” being with a capacity for unselfish love is superior to God is not only sheer fantasy but self-contradictory…