Does God love the Devil?

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hilarycotter said:
My 7 yo son asked me this and I did not have an answer for him.

I suspect not. I told him I would ask here as there are much smarter people than I who hang out here:)
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The answer to the question is “yes”.

God loves all his creation. The fact that the devil hates God does not diminish God’s love for his creatures.

This is possibly the reason that the devil is so tortured…because God is love itself.
 
This entire discussion can only take place because of two factors: the ingrained Catholic materialistic misunderstanding of God and the Devil as persons, and the complete misunderstanding of Lucifer and what in fact constitutes the alleged fall of Man. I can go much farther than that, but that is a good start.
 
Detales said:
This entire discussion can only take place because of two factors: the ingrained Catholic materialistic misunderstanding of God and the Devil as persons, and the complete misunderstanding of Lucifer and what in fact constitutes the alleged fall of Man. I can go much farther than that, but that is a good start.
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There’s nothing alleged about it.

Lucifer is a real and personal being created by God who rebelled against God’s plan.

You seem to follow your own authority - I follow that of the One, True Church that Christ intended to exist after His ascension into heaven and of which He left Peter as its first pope…264 popes later to Pope Benedict the XVI .

And the gates of hell shall not prevail against her…surely not your opinion.
 
Hi Mangy Dog,

Spoken like a true Catholic, stated exactly as I might have at one time. And what else whould I expect here? Questioning? Interest? Reasons why I might think that way after being a proselytzing, missionary minded Catholic very well versed in the teaching of the Church? No, I think that maybe one out f a thousand or less actually have an ability to have a critical ability in terms of examining their belief systems and how they were aquired, including religious faith, which is only one of them. Are you one of those who tragically mistake faith for knowledge? Perhaps so.

If you ever wake up from your sleep, and realize the immensity of God beyond your paltry ascribed church authority, perhaps we can have an interesting an profitable conversation.

In the mean time, think upon this: the Jesus story is one of the most commonly misunderstood and tragically misrepresented opportunities ever put before mankind. Part and parcel of this is the huge misunderstanding of the significance and meaning of Lucifer. The personalzation of these figures has misled the “faithful” from even plowing in the right field, as all will discover when it is too late, but even then a good laugh might be in order.

I will leave you with this from Mark Twain, a statement which I do not agree with, but it is in kind with your assertions, so here, in it’s revelatory might, it is: “But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?”
 
Detales said:
Hi Mangy Dog,

Spoken like a true Catholic, stated exactly as I might have at one time. And what else whould I expect here? Questioning? Interest? Reasons why I might think that way after being a proselytzing, missionary minded Catholic very well versed in the teaching of the Church? No, I think that maybe one out f a thousand or less actually have an ability to have a critical ability in terms of examining their belief systems and how they were aquired, including religious faith, which is only one of them. Are you one of those who tragically mistake faith for knowledge? Perhaps so.

If you ever wake up from your sleep, and realize the immensity of God beyond your paltry ascribed church authority, perhaps we can have an interesting an profitable conversation.

In the mean time, think upon this: the Jesus story is one of the most commonly misunderstood and tragically misrepresented opportunities ever put before mankind. Part and parcel of this is the huge misunderstanding of the significance and meaning of Lucifer. The personalzation of these figures has misled the “faithful” from even plowing in the right field, as all will discover when it is too late, but even then a good laugh might be in order.

I will leave you with this from Mark Twain, a statement which I do not agree with, but it is in kind with your assertions, so here, in it’s revelatory might, it is: “But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?”
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So. Does God love the devil or not?
 
Hi Benadam,

If you examine the premise and assumptions behind your question, you will ultimately find that your question is incapable of being answered, by you, me, or anyone. That is because in Reality the question you pose is a semantic impossibility. Nevertheless, it would be instructive to you and other readers to do the analysis on this forum. That way you could delineate how it is that so many are trapped in spiritual materialism, as well as the host of other nameable false belief systems Man is heir to. If you could do this honestly and sincerely, you will discover for yourself, and perhaps others, the kinds of structures in your mind, as it is similar to all human minds, that allow belief and its mistaken identity with actual knowledge. It is one of the most arduous and perhaps onerous tasks you, or anyone, might ever undertake, as you have to actually face yourself as you are, not as you think you are. One man even said that “The search for Reality is the most dangerous undertaking; it will destroy your world.”

That is a true statement, as you will find out if you are supremely fortunate. The search for Reality will destroy the false premises upon which most of us build our perception of the world. It says as much in the Bible, if you look carefully, which most don’t. They read it traditionally, not with intent of discovery beyond the superficial or usual exoteric understandings. Few of us ever examine critically the setting of the Bible and thus fail to see much of importance. The reward for seeing yourself clearly is the lifting of the veil that will reveal to you what the significance of the Jesus story actually is, beyond the beliefs about it that constitute religions.
 
P.S. Myth can only point; Truth happens when you experience what myth points to.
 
Do our sins condemn us? When fully grown cause death? If so they would almost seem to take on a life of their own-we create them and by God’s law they have power over us. Perhaps it is also the case with the devil. :)Thankfully God owns time and while alive we have recourse to Jesus our savior!
 
Hi Benadam,

I’m not sure what your reply means, but it kind of makes me think you don’t see clearly what I am saying. Could you clarify your statement, particularly what you mean by “you?”

Thanks

Carzupan, have you analyzed your statement in semantic terms??? You post no stats re your age, experience, etc, and simply stating “Catholic” tells us nothing about you and makes it difficult to asses at what level your posts might be reloied to. I don’t know why people are stingy with such info. It makes a lot of difference if one is speaking to a teenager, like some on here, or a world experienced philosophy prof.
 
Detales said:
This entire discussion can only take place because of two factors: the ingrained Catholic materialistic misunderstanding of God and the Devil as persons, and the complete misunderstanding of Lucifer and what in fact constitutes the alleged fall of Man. I can go much farther than that, but that is a good start.
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Well, thank you for clearing that up for us! We might have spent our entire lives following after the Catholic Church without realizing you had all the answers waiting for us right here. I’m sure glad you came along.
 
Detales said:
Hi Mangy Dog,

Spoken like a true Catholic, stated exactly as I might have at one time. And what else whould I expect here? Questioning? Interest? Reasons why I might think that way after being a proselytzing, missionary minded Catholic very well versed in the teaching of the Church? No, I think that maybe one out f a thousand or less actually have an ability to have a critical ability in terms of examining their belief systems and how they were aquired, including religious faith, which is only one of them. Are you one of those who tragically mistake faith for knowledge? Perhaps so.

If you ever wake up from your sleep, and realize the immensity of God beyond your paltry ascribed church authority, perhaps we can have an interesting an profitable conversation.

In the mean time, think upon this: the Jesus story is one of the most commonly misunderstood and tragically misrepresented opportunities ever put before mankind. Part and parcel of this is the huge misunderstanding of the significance and meaning of Lucifer. The personalzation of these figures has misled the “faithful” from even plowing in the right field, as all will discover when it is too late, but even then a good laugh might be in order.

I will leave you with this from Mark Twain, a statement which I do not agree with, but it is in kind with your assertions, so here, in it’s revelatory might, it is: “But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?”
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Geeze. I’m truly amazed. The level of arrogance in this post is astonishing. You manage to belittle every single poster here and exalt yourself to a higher status than Christ in one fell swoop. Christ certainly believed in the personhood of God and Lucifer. He spoke of both as people calling God His Father, and likening Lucifer and his kin to lions prowling the world seeking the ruin of souls. For being “well versed” in the teachings of the Catholic faith you are showing an astonishing lack of knowledge about it.
 
You are very welcome, Brandymmiller, but I can’t personally take the credit. Jesus is attributed with explicating this very idea, but unfortunattely the Church got it a bit backwards. Like God, this Understanding way predates either Jesus or the Church. It takes great courage and arduous work to awaken form the dreams of belief, especially of religious belief. I wish you the very best in your new adventure!
 
Bmmiller, no, you mistake simple experience and information from a more foundational standpoint for arrogance. This idiea is not my invention, but experiencable by any who are capable of looking at their own self beyond what they think or believe they are. You protest too much.
 
Detales said:
Jesus is attributed with explicating this very idea, but unfortunattely the Church got it a bit backwards. Like God, this Understanding way predates either Jesus or the Church.
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Ahh, so you are not only ignorant of Catholic theology you are ignorant of history as well. The Indian philosophy of Advaita dates from 788 a.d. - almost 750 years after Christ’s birth, death, and resurrection. It’s a branch of Hinduism. It’s also very wrong.

"The Advaitist says, this little personalised self is the cause of all my misery. This individualised self, which makes me different from all other beings, brings hatred and jealousy and misery, struggle and all other evils. And when this idea has been got rid of, all struggle will cease, all misery vanish. So this is to be given up. We must always hold ourselves ready, even to give up our lives for the lowest beings. When a man has become ready even to give up his life for a little insect, he has reached the perfection which the Advaitist wants to attain; and at that moment when he has become thus ready, the veil of ignorance falls away from him, and he will feel his own nature. "

Our individuality is not the cause of our misery, nor is our differences. Our uniqueness and our individuality help us to find and fulfill the purpose and plan for which God has created us. We are each cells within the Body of Christ - but each cell serves a different purpose, has a different characteristic to it, and so has a different appearance. The problem comes when we envy the other their differences or see ourselves as lesser because we do not have the same gifts. Yes, we must be willing to give up our lives for other people - but out of love and not to get out of “misery”.
 
Detales said:
you mistake simple experience and information from a more foundational standpoint for arrogance. .
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Your arrogance comes from your assumption that the “simple experience and information from a more foundational standpoint” is of higher quality than any of ours and is more worthy than over 4000 collective years of study by Jewish and Christian theologians.
 
I don’t know where you got that little tract, but it displays someone’s misunderstanding of Advaita that is equaled only by your misunderstanding of Christianity. And Advaita is only one name for something that has been in fact around before it’s being named that or being ascribed to someone or somewhere. If you think your quote describes Advaita or what Jesus actually taught, you are sadly mistaken.
 
Deatales:

All your words are gobbledygook because they are without faith.

When you were first saved, faith was a GIFT given to you by God, you cannot outsmart him, you cannot reason better than him, and you cannot think clearer than him. Any good you do is a gift.

You cannot trust your intellect, because it is darkened. My intellect led me away from the Church and into Eastern Orthodoxy for awhile, but I repented THAT SIN: It was a SIN.

There are SINS of the intellect, they are sins against faith, because you are more willing to put faith in darkness (your mind) than in light (The Church).

You must be a Catholic to have a truly illuminated intellect, because FAITH is what enlightens us, and thus enlightened, THIS is the church’s faith:

Christ loves Lucifer with all his heart.
If he did not, Lucifer would cease to exist, because it is only God’s good will and pleasure that keep all things together “in him we live move and have our being.”

But Lucifer declared his enmity with God.
He sinned.
And God cannot look upon sin, so he was cast out.
You know what hell is?
Hell is knowing that God won’t take you back: Not because he doesn’t want to, but because YOU have created an irreconcilable difference in your heart with he who gave you that heart.
Hell is Lucifer longing to be taken back, to be good, but knowing he will never consent to humility, he will never go back, because he is a spoiled child. God will not accept him on his terms, and so he thumbs his nose at God and says: “Since you hurt me, I will hurt you: Now I cannot hurt YOU, but I will hurt those you care for! I will hurt myself, I will enslave myself; I will enslave these inferior ‘children’ of yours!”

And God’s compassion is flowing from his throne:

And it is Lucifer’s Consuming fire. It is the River of Fire that issues forth from the Throne.

God is Hell; because he is love. And those who realize it too late are consumed with twin pangs of remorse and bitterness and they are shot through with the realization that they hate his love, they hate the way it FEELS to be loved by a God who WILL be supreme in their lives, one way or the other. SO they are immobilized: and they turn their backs on God, even though they can never escape his love, his love that will one day be all in all.

One day the World will be filled with the love of God: And the wicked will hate his love, and the Just will bask in it as glorious light.

but the corrupt who are infinitely corrupt will infinitely suffer under the gaze of his love; because they will not be illumined, they will be burned and scorched by the light:

“Our God is a CONSUMING fire.”

Our souls are eternal and undying, and we can make eternal choices that will either orient us to love God and his truth,

or when we follow our own reasonings which are defective on their own and warped by our unnatural state of death, we can come to hate God’s love in an infinite and definitive way.

God will consume both in His Love: One will be illumined for all eternity, and one will burn for all eternity:

And we get to choose.
 
That’s all wonderful, Leo, if you accept the false premise of the Church. False premise, false conclusion. You are leaving out one inevitable and inescapable dynamic that is common to ALL humans, Catholic or not, form time immemorial. Even Jesus acknowledged it and taught from that standpoint, if He ever really existed. But the statements are attributed to Him, only misrepresented by the Church.
 
Detales, you will not know peace.

First, you are on a forum of Catholics, that means virtually everyone here is opposed to YOU or at least your beliefs. Specifically your brand of neo-Hinduism trying to incorporate elements of Christianity. There is a name for that:

GNOSTICISM.

That’s a first and second century heresy condemned by the church and written against by Irenaes of Lyons in 180 a.d.

Second, you have GOT to know this so I can only conclude you desire to make waves.

However…

We can swim buddy. 😉
 
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