I don’t know if He grieve for them, but I believe He does love all His creatures. Creatures exists because God wills them to exists, and creatures existence is a free act of love from God. “Out of the surplus of His love,” like old saying says.Just yesterday, for the first time ever, I wondered to myself “Does God love the Devil?” It seemed like an automatic ‘no’ at first, but then after I thought about it I was not sure. Since God created Lucifer, does he not still love him ? And will God eternally grieve for Lucifer and for all of the souls in hell? Or, does God’s love of a person end once they are eternally damned?
No he doesn’t. The Bible explicitly states that he hates Esau.I don’t know if He grieve for them, but I believe He does love all His creatures. Creatures exists because God wills them to exists, and creatures existence is a free act of love from God. “Out of the surplus of His love,” like old saying says.
That’s a misinterpretation. God never beats around the bush, He always says what He means, and in this passage He is intending a clear distinction. Jacob I have LOVED, but Esau I have HATED. I see no reason not to take those words at their face value.“Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? says the Lord: yet, I have loved Jacob , but hated Esau.” (Malachi 1:3)
The notes in my New American Bible say “Loved: preferred; hated: rejected.” In Romans 9: 13, St. Paul uses this passage as an example of God’s freedom of choice in calling the Gentiles to the faith. Did God hate the Jews b/c He decided to focus on spreading the Gospel to the Gentiles instead? Of course not. But Jesus preferred to preach to the Gentiles b/c they were more open to the Word than many of the Jews were. Does that mean He wouldn’t have rejoiced if a Pharisee decided to accept Him as Messiah? Again, of course not!!
Ummm… Sorry Yehuda, but I think you are the one who misinterpreted the whole passage.That’s a misinterpretation. God never beats around the bush, He always says what He means, and in this passage He is intending a clear distinction. Jacob I have LOVED, but Esau I have HATED. I see no reason not to take those words at their face value.
The Bible clearly says that God hates the wicked and the lover of violence… “but the lover of violence his soul hates.” God is capable of hate; he hates sin with all his heart. Yes, he is capable of love, VERY capable, indeed no one is more loving than He is. But His love is only for His elect, which is everyone who can love (most of mankind). From since before the beginning of time He, by his own unsearchable counsel and most perfect will, decided to hate a few people. Examples include Esau and Judas.Ummm… Sorry Yehuda, but I think you are the one who misinterpreted the whole passage.
The passages that you quoted (Ml 1: 2-3) is referring to the event of Nu 20:14-21) where Edom denied Israelite a passage during the exodus. In a way they (Edom which is Esau’s descendant) rejected Yahweh just like Esau was.
But, does God really hate His enemies? I’m not sure, only He knows, but my guess is not, otherwise** He will contradict the very essence of who He is; love.**
'You have learn how it was said: You must love your neighbour and hate your enemy. But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you (Mt 5:43-44) … You must therefore be perfect just as your Heavenly Father is perfect (Mt 5:48)
So I guess His love for even those people in hell will never fade, but it is the consequences of their will of rejecting God that makes them condemned for eternity.
When you talk about their sufferings being proportional to their crimes, do you mean in purgatory? Or something along the lines of levels of hell, as in The Inferno?He still shows mercy to them, though, in that their sufferings are only proportional to their crimes, and not infinite like the being they offended (God).
Do you believe Judas is in hell? Why would God hate Judas but not everyone else on earth who rejects Him? If Judas repented at the last second, he could very well be in Heaven, which would mean God loves him, correct?The Bible clearly says that God hates the wicked and the lover of violence… “but the lover of violence his soul hates.” God is capable of hate; he hates sin with all his heart. Yes, he is capable of love, VERY capable, indeed no one is more loving than He is. But His love is only for His elect, which is everyone who can love (most of mankind). From since before the beginning of time He, by his own unsearchable counsel and most perfect will, decided to hate a few people. Examples include Esau and Judas.
I guess you are really confusing several terms together. The devil is a being, sin is an act. It is the act that God condemn, but never the being. In fact He wants all of His creatures to be saved, however it is our own choices, our own free will who could condemn us into hell by choosing to reject Him and His mercy. So does satan/devil. Moreover, with their greater intellect, they have chosen since long ago to go against Him, so in the sense, they have been condemned forever, but it is not because God doesn’t love or forgive them, it is because their own free will, the consequences of their choice.The Bible clearly says that God hates the wicked and the lover of violence… “but the lover of violence his soul hates.” God is capable of hate; he hates sin with all his heart. Yes, he is capable of love, VERY capable, indeed no one is more loving than He is. But His love is only for His elect, which is everyone who can love (most of mankind). From since before the beginning of time He, by his own unsearchable counsel and most perfect will, decided to hate a few people. Examples include Esau and Judas.
Daisy, you could always ask your pastor about the subject or the bible. No one will be more informed than the pastor.Thank you everyone for replying.
Regarding what the bible says about Esau, and I am in no way a bible expert, but I thought we were not to take it literally? (Obvious example: you shouldn’t cut off your hand.) So, did God really hate Esau? Or was He rejecting Esau, as Veronica97’s bible suggests?
To be honest, the bible confuses me because I never know exactly what should be taken literally vs what should not. Also, some of the words had different meanings when they were written than they do now, which confuses me even more.
Re: God loving the devil, it is still a grey area for me. If anyone can suggest some literature regarding this topic, I would appreciate it. Yehuda Dion - thank you for the suggestion of Dialogue of Catherine of Siena.
I don’t think we can really speculate where Judas is. Anyway, you certainly remember that even in cross Jesus forgave those who crucified Him.So yes if he repented and asked for forgiveness, certainly The Blessed Lord will grant him one but instead he opted to take his own life.Do you believe Judas is in hell? Why would God hate Judas but not everyone else on earth who rejects Him? If Judas repented at the last second, he could very well be in Heaven, which would mean God loves him, correct?
Thanks for posting these, bakaten. I did a search before I posted, but I guess I did not look hard enough!This issues has been discussed before, you could try to read it here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=118537
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=8427