Continued from posts 112 and 122.
. And, according to Granny, a person cannot have a faith in Jesus unless he believes in original sin, and I am going to say that is not necessarily the case, and you are going to insist it is because the CCC says so. I don’t see the human as stained, and you do.
For general information.
CCC refers to the universal Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition. Here are two links.
usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/
scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
Here is a
CCC sentence which addresses the erroneous post 112 point, “a person cannot have a faith in Jesus unless he believes in original sin.” This point was wrongly attributed to granny.
Last sentence in* CCC*, 389
The Church, which has the mind of Christ, knows very well that we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ.
The “mystery of Christ” does refer to many, many things. Because, post 112, commented to me, “and that brings us back to your pet topic, Original Sin, Adam, etc.” – let’s zoom in on the “mystery” of the Divinity of Jesus Christ which continues to be attacked ever since the “
True God and True Man” walked our planet earth.
First, Original Sin refers to the actions between two different beings, the Creator and the creature. The Book of Genesis starts with the beginning of the universe followed by numerous life forms leading to the pinnacle of this creation which is Adam. Adam is created in the image of God and thus he can have a personal relationship with his Divine Creator. In hindsight, we view Adam as a spiritual creature. As a spiritual creature, Adam can have a true friendship relationship with God by living in free submission to his Creator.
Second, when we look at Original Sin from our human position, we must continually keep in mind the difference between the Creator and the creature. When the relationship between humanity and Divinity is shattered (Original Sin), the only one who can repair the damage is someone on the same level as the Creator. This necessitates the Divinity of Jesus Christ.
Hence, John 3:16-17.
Those who know granny, know that she would never say “a person cannot have a faith in Jesus unless he believes in original sin.” This cranky granny consistently refers to
CCC, 1260. I put the crucial information in bold.
First sentence of
CCC, 1260. “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers,
in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.”
Regarding OneSheep’s comment, “I don’t see the human as stained, and you do.”
Personally, I didn’t like the idea of being stained. I am not coordinated so you can imagine what my clothes looked like at the end of the day. However, in those days, Catholic education was very clear that the damage (via Original Sin) to human nature was connected to Adam who had chopped apart humankind’s relationship with a Transcendent Pure Spirit. The word transcendent was not used per se; yet, we all knew what super-natural meant.
To me, despite my feelings, the word stained was not a big deal, It was the fact that the Divine Jesus Christ was needed.
When I finally started researching the universal
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, I was grateful for paragraphs 404-405. I put some of the key points in bold.
**404 **How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants?
The whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man”. By this “unity of the human race” all men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as all are implicated in Christ’s justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a
personal sin, but this sin affected the
human nature that they would then transmit
in a fallen state. It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice.
And that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogical sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed” - a state and not an act.
405 Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called “concupiscence”.
Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.
To be continued.
, I say that Jesus forgave the unrepentant, and you say no. The priest that taught me said that God always forgives, and you disagree. My question is, can you walk up to receive communion with me? In your view, I am obviously not repenting from my belief that God forgives everyone, which is the God I know in my prayer life. Do you forgive me, Granny, or will you not join me at the table? It is holy week, dear. Pray on it
Thank you so much, WMW. However, you are probably preaching to the choir where our universalist is concerned, unfortunately. This good Council’s anathema’s will fall on his deaf ears.