Does God the Father have a broken heart?

[Doug23]

In Neal Lozano book ‘Abba’s Heart’ the Catholic author states:

“Jesus was well aware of the Father’s broken heart. On one level, Jesus came to save us; on another, He came “heal” the Father’s heart…The Father’s heart was broken over the loss of His precious children…Jesus…brought the Father healing…”p35

Furthermore in Scripture we read:
Isaiah 22:4 Therefore I said, “Turn away from me; let me weep bitterly. Do not try to console me over the destruction of my people.”
Jeremiah 8:21 Since my people are crushed, I am crushed; I mourn, and horror grips me.
Jeremiah 9:1 Oh, that my head were a spring of water and my eyes a fountain of tears! I would weep day and night for the slain of my people.
Jeremiah 13:17 But if you do not listen, I will weep in secret because of your pride; my eyes will weep bitterly, overflowing with tears, because the LORD’S flock will be taken captive.

Bearing this in mind is it possible to attribute emotion to an unchangeable God? Thoughts please as I find this topic puzzling.

 

[Gorgias]

Bearing this in mind is it possible to attribute emotion to an unchangeable God?

Only in an analogous way. God doesn’t have changeable passions or emotions. Sometimes, though, to help us understand Him (since we do have passions and emotions!), it can be useful to express things about Him in a human way.

So, does God have a “broken heart”, or the emotion that it represents? No, not in the way that we’d understand it in a human context.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Bearing this in mind is it possible to attribute emotion to an unchangeable God?

Of course God has emotions. He certainly has anger a great deal of the time, as shown by Scripture. In Scripture, he also expresses approval or happiness when he is pleased with his creation or with something good that one of his people does. It logically follows that God could be sad as well.

In addition, Jesus is God and he had and expressed the full range of human emotions, including happiness, anger, and sadness. Once again, all this is shown in Scripture.

God also made us in his own image to begin with. Presumably if we are made in his image, that would include our ability to have emotions including sadness.

The only way you could make an argument denying God’s emotions is by ignoring or dismissing large portions of Scripture.

I suppose there’s an argument to be made that God’s emotions are not like puny human emotions, and that God perhaps expresses emotion, or inspires that Scripture describe God in emotional terms, as a way of making humans understand something that otherwise would be incomprehensible to them. I’m willing to agree that since our knowledge of God is certainly lacking, there’s a lot we don’t know about God’s feelings and the nature of what might be called God’s “emotions”.

 

[Anrakyr]

Of course God has emotions. He certainly has anger a great deal of the time, as shown by Scripture. In Scripture, he also expresses approval or happiness when he is pleased with his creation or with something good that one of his people does. It logically follows that God could be sad as well.

God as God doesn’t and never did. He would imply emotions for our benefit but doesn’t feel them as we do.
God’s happiness and contentment is in effected by us in anyway.

Until…

Jesus is God and he had and expressed the full range of human emotions, including happiness, anger, and sadness. Once again, all this is shown in Scripture.

Jesus makes it more complicated but note that post resurrection His tone changes drastically. He doesn’t seem to yell, get angry, sad or emotionally charged. He is at peace.

In life yes to share our burdens but in eternal life He becomes what He always was outwardly.

Divine.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Jesus is fully human and fully divine. He did not lose his human nature after the resurrection, nor after his Ascension (corrected, sorry) into Heaven.

Jesus is God. And was God all the time he was walking around on earth having emotions, too.

Your argument therefore doesn’t work.

 

[Anrakyr]

First year theology students are taught God is unchanged by mood by dint of being God.

God doesn’t need anything or want anything. When you are perfect and you require nothing that means nothing can effect you.

I’m sorry you don’t understand but this is taught to every seminary in the world.

 

[Wesrock]

Jesus is fully human and fully divine. He did not lose his human nature after the resurrection, nor after his Ascension (corrected, sorry) into Heaven.

Jesus is God. And was God all the time he was walking around on earth having emotions, too.

Your argument therefore doesn’t work.

All of Jesus’ passible emotions are from his human nature. The divine nature does not have passible emotions. Most theologians take descriptions of God’s wrath and jealousy as being allegorical / how the Israelites viewed responses to their actions, or general eternal dispositions God has towards sin, but not as being actual passible emotions.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If God is Love, then Love is an emotion to my puny human mind.

Sorry I don’t agree with 1,000,000 theologians. I speak from Scripture and my heart.

Marian apparitions (which I know are not required belief) speak constantly of God’s anger and wrath at us. Those are emotions to me too.

It is perfectly possible for God to have what we would consider emotions while still being unchanging. I’m happy to accept it as a mystery. Theology for me often falls quite short. It’s not only dry and legalistic, but it doesn’t even begin to explain 1 iota of the possibilities of God.

Leaving the thread now. God bless.

 

[Wesrock]

I’ll add that there are different approaches/angles to be taken. I don’t think theologians who focus on the more intimate, personable relationship with God and speak of his love and broken heart are actually disagreeing with theologians who state God doesn’t have passible emotions.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t think theologians who focus on the more intimate, personable relationship with God and speak of his love and broken heart are actually disagreeing with theologians who state God doesn’t have passible emotions.

I agree with this.

 

[Wesrock]

Theology for me often falls quite short. It’s not only dry and legalistic

I think this is a common misconception. For me, even despite what I wrote above, I think truly understanding Aquinas ’ theology, for example, (who some say is dry and technical) has only deepened my appreciation for God’s immanence and love and goodness. It’s anything but dry for me. It elevates it for me.

 

[goout]

Love is not primarily or essentially an emotion, it’s a movement of the will. Strong human emotions accompany love and are bound up with love, but that’s not the essence of it.

The emotional aspects are perhaps a gift to us from God that help us to desire love.

As to “God’s broken heart”…and speaking not theologically:
A broken heart pours forth. A heart of flesh can be broken. While this may contradict the immutable nature of God, it can certainly apply to Christ in his human condition.
CS Lewis has an absolutely awesome thought here:

“To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact you must give it to no one, not even an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements. Lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket, safe, dark, motionless, airless, it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. To love is to be vulnerable.”​

 

[TheLittleLady]

Neal Lozano book ‘Abba’s Heart’ the Catholic author

Mr Lozano is speaking his opinions, using prosaic language to make a point.

 

[Doug23]

As to “God’s broken heart”…and speaking not theologically:
A broken heart pours forth. A heart of flesh can be broken. While this may contradict the immutable nature of God, it can certainly apply to Christ in his human condition.

So would that mean that it is incorrect for one to say that God the Father has a broken heart? Or can we only say this about Christ?

 

[CelticWarlord]

He would imply emotions for our benefit but doesn’t feel them as we do.

I like the way you put this. We will all have a point of view that sits well with our understanding, of course, and the writers of the Old Testament whose passages were cited earlier wrote with passion and genuine feeling. When God is described in scripture as being wrathful or angry, I believe what the writer is getting across is a sense of remorse so that we feel as though God is wrathful and angry with us. At the same time I believe these emotions are strictly for our human experience and that God is far above them.

 

[goout]

goout:

As to “God’s broken heart”…and speaking not theologically:
A broken heart pours forth. A heart of flesh can be broken. While this may contradict the immutable nature of God, it can certainly apply to Christ in his human condition.

So would that mean that it is incorrect for one to say that God the Father has a broken heart? Or can we only say this about Christ?

It’s not for me to say that your spiritual intuition is incorrect dogmatically.
God offers himself completely in Christ. Christ’s heart is broken open both physically and metaphorically/spiritually.
That is a powerful image of love’s complete gift.

 

[Doug23]

Thanks, I always struggle with these sorts of discussions, I teach the faith and I want to be precise and not teach error, so I like these sort of to and fro’s as they help clarify one’s thinking. By the way St Francisco Marto said as you probably know about God the Father:

“I loved seeing the Angel, but I loved still more seeing Our Lady. What I loved most of all was to see Our Lord in that light from Our Lady which penetrated our hearts. I love God so much! *But He is very sad* because of so many sins! We must never commit any sins again.”

So I don’t know if I am answering my own question with help from yourself and others that it is ok to emphasize God the Father’s emotions and if people ask I can qualify it if need be.

 

[goout]

Thanks, I always struggle with these sorts of discussions, I teach the faith and I want to be precise and not teach error, so I like these sort of to and fro’s as they help clarify one’s thinking. By the way St Francisco Marto said as you probably know about God the Father:

“I loved seeing the Angel, but I loved still more seeing Our Lady. What I loved most of all was to see Our Lord in that light from Our Lady which penetrated our hearts. I love God so much! *But He is very sad* because of so many sins! We must never commit any sins again.”

So I don’t know if I am answering my own question with help from yourself and others that it is ok to emphasize God the Father’s emotions and if people ask I can qualify it if need be.

No small amount of profound mystery here, and that mystery ought to draw us in, not cause to take hardened stances.

We are given the power of imagination to use in proper order, not whimsically but to ponder things that are beyond us. And that imagination should lead us to God. Imagining God with a broken heart can be like that.
And if we ponder God with a broken heart, it doesn’t have to be on an emotional level, but on the level of complete gift, nothing held back, including sorrowing at human cruelty and injustice. All is redeemed through Christ.

 

[Gorgias]

Of course God has emotions. He certainly has anger a great deal of the time, as shown by Scripture. In Scripture, he also expresses approval or happiness when he is pleased with his creation or with something good that one of his people does. It logically follows that God could be sad as well.

God is impassible. That means that He does not change. That implies that He does not have changing emotions, in the way humans do. When we talk about God’s “emotions”, we mean it in an analogous way.

In addition, Jesus is God and he had and expressed the full range of human emotions, including happiness, anger, and sadness.

This is true. Given that Jesus has a human nature, He experiences emotions as humans do.

God also made us in his own image to begin with. Presumably if we are made in his image, that would include our ability to have emotions including sadness.

No. That isn’t how the Church understands the “imago Dei”.

The only way you could make an argument denying God’s emotions is by ignoring or dismissing large portions of Scripture.

Au contraire. We can make that argument by pointing out that these expressions are anthropomorphisms or analogous descriptions.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Only God the Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, has a human nature and the Divine Nature in the unity of His Divine Person, so He has a heart. His Sacred Heart was pierced with a lance to show how much He loves us.

God the Father and God the Holy Ghost do NOT have a human nature.