Does God want certain sufferings?

[distracted]

So much for God as father .​

Agreed, that “we humans are not angels” - but it does not follow that God desires us to suffer. Which is what has to be established. That there is suffering, does not make it God’s will. Does God really desire the gassing of millions of Jews ? Sorry, but a god like that is indistinguishable from the devil. And that is one of the problems - if God’s moral character is indistinguishable from that of the devil, to worship God is but devil-worship under another name

I’d appreciate it if you would stop putting words in my mouth… I never said that God WANTS suffering as in He wants that just for the sake of suffering… He only “wants” it because it is necessary…because of sin and our frailties…

There is nothing improving in suffering as such - otherwise, Hell would be our true home, & every tyrant & man of blood would be a benefactor of the human race; those most of all who have caused most suffering. The dregs of mankind would be those who have relieved the suffering of others.

i have no idea what this means…

 

[distracted]

And although God had said “Thou shalt not kill”, there are thousands of Palestinians being killed today by the Jews for whatever reasons they have every day. So much for their Ten Commandments. And not to mention the Protestants who killed and are still killing hundreds of Catholics.
.

The Palestinians, from what i know,… started it… They killed many Jews before the Jews had to fight back…

I’d like to know more about this but i do know (more/less?) that the Palestinians have been very unreasonable…

I don’t know why everyone seems to pick on the Jews… They gave us our Church… well, OK, that’s not exactly what i mean but Catholicsim comes from Judaism…

 

[distracted]

Gottle of Geer;5357744.:

The CC has inflicted far more woe on others than any other Church - it is.

well, that shows the extent of your knowledge of history…

 

[distracted]

Personally, you shouldn’t be speaking for Jesus as you pretty much called him a “failure” in another thread.

P.S. Yes, the Church is sooooo bad. Her crimes truly outnumber her virtues and past/ present accomplishments.

What??? Are you serious??? or being sarcastic or what???

The Church never committed crimes… People in the Church did… Big surprise since they are human… but the Church didn’t do anything wrong… Christ protects the Church from error (st Mt 16:18…). Popes never (that i know of) condoned the murder of those who didnt’ belive as the Church teaches…and even if they did, they were the exception… The Church has never held that people should be forced to accept Christ… or die. The Inquisitors asked questions of the accused & if the person didn’t have orthodox views & refused to change their unorthodox views, the person was handed over to the state. It was the state that decided whehter to execute or not…

There may have been corruption in the Inquisition and i am sure there was because humans were involved… but as stated in another post… The Inquisition was Justice Incarnate compared to what the Protestants did to Ctholics throughout history… (withoiut any court of inquiry like the Inquisition… i might add).

 

[distracted]

Personally, you shouldn’t be speaking for Jesus as you pretty much called him a “failure” in another thread.

e.

well, G of G has the freedom to say whatever he wants about Jesus… but i for one am not going to bother listening…

yeah, right, Jesus was a failure… He just started the ONLY institution that has survived for over 2000 years… with billions of followers… some failure… NO other institution has even come close to lasting that long… or having so many devout followers…

that guy needs to quit already…

 

[josie_L]

What??? Are you serious??? or being sarcastic or what???

The Church never committed crimes… People in the Church did… Big surprise since they are human… but the Church didn’t do anything wrong… Christ protects the Church from error (st Mt 16:18…). Popes never (that i know of) condoned the murder of those who didnt’ belive as the Church teaches…and even if they did, they were the exception… The Church has never held that people should be forced to accept Christ… or die. The Inquisitors asked questions of the accused & if the person didn’t have orthodox views & refused to change their unorthodox views, the person was handed over to the state. It was the state that decided whehter to execute or not…

There may have been corruption in the Inquisition and i am sure there was because humans were involved… but as stated in another post… The Inquisition was Justice Incarnate compared to what the Protestants did to Ctholics throughout history… (withoiut any court of inquiry like the Inquisition… i might add).

I was being sarcastic.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

The Palestinians, from what i know,… started it… They killed many Jews before the Jews had to fight back…

I’d like to know more about this but i do know (more/less?) that the Palestinians have been very unreasonable…

I don’t know why everyone seems to pick on the Jews… They gave us our Church… well, OK, that’s not exactly what i mean but Catholicsim comes from Judaism…

It really doesn’t matter who started it but matters that it is still going on today. Thousands of Palestinians are killed every day vs a few Jews. They cannot have running water and cannot work. Last time I checked, Israel had beautiful restaurants, the latest fashions and beautiful homes. I am not on the side of these Arabs, but I still feel they are treated very badly. I don’t think people pick on the Jews, but it happens that there are times when they are involved in things which are troubling. People kill Catholics too by the hundreds every day in other countries. There are hundreds of victims out there besides, it’s not just the land of Israel.

 

[rinnie]

So much for God as father .​

Agreed, that “we humans are not angels” - but it does not follow that God desires us to suffer. Which is what has to be established. That there is suffering, does not make it God’s will. Does God really desire the gassing of millions of Jews ? Sorry, but a god like that is indistinguishable from the devil. And that is one of the problems - if God’s moral character is indistinguishable from that of the devil, to worship God is but devil-worship under another name

just about sums it up.

One way out - or one way to lighten the difficulty - is to distinguish between the antecedent & consequent will of God; though this has difficulties of its own; it can be enunciated so as to save God’s moral character at the price of giving us a disinterested spectator God, an impersonal God.

There is nothing improving in suffering as such - otherwise, Hell would be our true home, & every tyrant & man of blood would be a benefactor of the human race; those most of all who have caused most suffering. The dregs of mankind would be those who have relieved the suffering of others.

In all due respect I must disagree with you. Much is accomplished in suffering. For some people it takes a loss of income to realize what good of a job you had. For some it takes a loss in health to realize how healthy you were. For some it takes a death of a loved one to cherish the ones you have left in this world. Suffering will humble any man or women. What comes out of suffering is compassion, strength, love and understanding.

While God never wills suffering he can take it and make a good out of it. For the reasons I stated above. Some times suffering leads to the old saying you can not judge until you walked in the other persons shoes. Sometimes walking in those shoes is suffering. And once you wore them shoes you never want them back. And when you see someone in those shoes and know yourself first hand how a little compassion, understanding and Love can go a long way is the good out of that suffering.

 

[distracted]

In all due respect I must disagree with you. Much is accomplished in suffering. For some people it takes a loss of income to realize what good of a job you had. For some it takes a loss in health to realize how healthy you were. For some it takes a death of a loved one to cherish the ones you have left in this world. Suffering will humble any man or women. What comes out of suffering is compassion, strength, love and understanding.

While God never wills suffering he can take it and make a good out of it. For the reasons I stated above. Some times suffering leads to the old saying you can not judge until you walked in the other persons shoes. Sometimes walking in those shoes is suffering. And once you wore them shoes you never want them back. And when you see someone in those shoes and know yourself first hand how a little compassion, understanding and Love can go a long way is the good out of that suffering.

very well said… especially the part about walking in someone else’s shoes. It is SO hard to do that sometimes because, well, we all have such unique 'shoes" (crosses)…

but one thing that is NOT hard… is choosing to have the desire to do so… and love is what gives us that desire… and Christ is what gives us that kind of love… only Him (+ Father & HS, of course).

One thing to remember though, something it took me a long time to fully realize (if i even fully realize it now??):

As that old hymn says: "You have to walk this lonesome valley… you have to walk it by yourself… Nobody else can walk it for you… you have to walk it by yourself…"

by yourself with Jesus…

 

[distracted]

I was being sarcastic.

oh well… i always enjoy the chance to possibly disabuse people of the notion that the Inquisitors were Satan incarnate…