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pocohombre
Guest
Not totally sure what you mean by invisible church. I know I am not invisible, nor is my pastor,elders,teachers,bishops/overseers.Don’t. That’s just even more disqualifying than the usual “invisible church” protestant argument.
Yes,be ye fully convinvced.While it is true that all baptized Christians are in some degree of communion with the Church, there is no doubt whatsoever from the standpoint of both reason and Scripture that the Church subsists in its fullness in the so-called “Roman Catholic” Church
Yet some would say it was for centuries and she tried to keep it that way, even if by force, till the Great Scism and then the Reformation and to the chagrin of some the nonsense (the existence of “others”) continues. But thank you for the inclusion.not that she is the “only” Church or that Roman Catholics are the “only” Christians (that would be nonsense).
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brb3
Guest
Yes …but, that is just the beginning. Now, u/we must discover the Church of Apostles, that went Universal in first 2 centuries !! Is that a Protestant Church ?God wants everyone to be born again.
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steve_b
Guest
Yes.And the answer is…?
Jn 17:
20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21* that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory which you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
There is zero tollerance, exception, or accepting of division.
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steve_b
Guest
Born again in His Church. The only one He established in the 1st century. The Catholic Church.God wants everyone to be born again.
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steve_b
Guest
Yes as in “Universal” Christian, the original meaning of “catholic”. Now if you mean Roman Catholic as some church signs post in my area,I will answer with an old song lyric,as my last post/thread talked about another song "Imagine"by Ono/Lennon.
- John Lennon was an atheist.
- Acts 9:31 So the church throughout all κατά kata…ὅλος holos Judea and Galilee and Sama’ria…" iow the Church is the Kataholos Church = Catholic Church The English word catholic is a transliteration of the Greek katholikos which is a compound word from kata, which means according to, and holos, which means whole. http://www.catholic.com/tracts/what-catholic-means
- St Ignatius Bp of Antioch, ~69 a.d. - ~107 a.d., ordained by apostles, disciple of St John the apostle, called the Church the Catholic Church Epistle to the Smyrnæans of which schismatics won’t be going to heaven Epistle to the Philadelphians
- St Polycarp**,** Bp Smyrna, disciple of St John called the Church the “Catholic Church” The Martyrdom of Polycarp
- Irenaeus ~180 a.d. wrote “Against Heresies” called the Church the “Catholic Church” Adversus haereses Bk 1 Ch 10 v 3], and also Irenaeus who was taught by Polycarp, teaches all must agree with Rome [Bk 3, Ch 3, v 2-3] Chapter 3
- **Cyprian **~250 a.d. Epistle 54
- The Nicene Creed**,** 325 a.d., it’s a matter of faith to believe in the “One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church”
- etc etc
Rom 16:17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions διχοστασίαdichostasia and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19 Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil. 20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.
What are the consequences of division for that soul?
Gal 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions,διχοστασίαdichostasia factions21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
διχοστασία dichostasia = division, is the same Greek word in both Romans and Galatians. Therefore, the consequence of division if one divides or remains divided from the Church is they will not inherit heaven when they die. That’s also where the phrase outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation came from.
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YiiNaa
Guest
No. God doesn’t want us to be Protestant either. He only needs us accept Jesus Christ as Lord and saviour.
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R_C
Guest
That’s not what He taught, though. We can p(name removed by moderator)oint with a certain degree of exactness who came up with this doctrine that “one only needs to accept Christ as our Lord and savior”. We can also refute it in a second:He only needs us accept Jesus Christ as Lord and saviour.
One day the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know
You believe that there is one God; you do well: the demons also believe, and tremble.
at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
And finally, on how rejecting the apostles and their successors affects us, let us recall the Lord’s words to them (and by extension to their successors):Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows…] And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
As the Father sent me, so I send you.
Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.
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YiiNaa
Guest
Accepting Jesus as Lord = following his footsteps and teachings.That’s not what He taught, though. We can p(name removed by moderator)oint with a certain degree of exactness who came up with this doctrine that “one only needs to accept Christ as our Lord and savior”. We can also refute it in a second:
So I don’t see the need to “refute” me here
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pocohombre
Guest
Such a simple child you are. Halleluiah! Beware of the but,but,but,…No. God doesn’t want us to be Protestant either. He only needs us accept Jesus Christ as Lord and saviour.
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brb3
Guest
Pure speculation !! Not supportable by scriptures &/or apostolic traditions. But, make your case …if u can.No. God doesn’t want us to be Protestant either. He only needs us accept Jesus Christ as Lord and saviour.
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brb3
Guest
Yes, we all come to the Master as simple children with 100 % faith & only the single work of faith/trust/confession & determination to be his disciple.Such a simple child you are. Halleluiah! Beware of the but,but,but,…
But, then …we must learn to identify his Church …so as to persevere in the One Body.
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steve_b
Guest
Since Jesus is Lord, one needs to be in the Catholic Church which He established.No. God doesn’t want us to be Protestant either. He only needs us accept Jesus Christ as Lord and saviour.
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pocohombre
Guest
I suppose the church you are in is the church you would like others to be in . So if I were Catholic I would want everybody to be Catholic. If I were protestant I would want everybody to be so. We are to be witnesses, to disciple /win others to…Christ.
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brb3
Guest
Well, if ur Protestant …good luck, convincing them urs is that 1 in 20,000 thats right. For Catholics, its a piece of cake !!! Afterall, who else has the Transmutated Apostolic Eucharist, all the Saints of first 1500 years, gave mankind the Bible, wrote all the early Church history, preserved the faith from heresy and & infidels, and is truly Universal in scope?I suppose the church you are in is the church you would like others to be in . So if I were Catholic I would want everybody to be Catholic. If I were protestant I would want everybody to be so. We are to be witnesses, to disciple /win others to…Christ.
Its a slam-dunk decision. One even a caveman could arrive at !!!
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Brendan_64
Guest
We most certainly are. That is the duty of all Christians, and these days, with aggressive anti-religious secularism attacking us with increasing ferocity, we have a tough job on our hands.We are to be witnesses, to disciple /win others to…Christ.
I think it is increasingly important that we make a point of actively displaying who we are, through openly wearing the cross etc., evangelising through living out our lives as an example to others, and standing up in the face of rampant secularism.
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R_C
Guest
When someone willfully rejects the apostolic tradition and refuses to follow the successors of the apostles, this constitutes a rejection of the Lord by His own words.Accepting Jesus as Lord = following his footsteps and teachings.
So I don’t see the need to “refute” me here
Of course, this is not imputable on those who are under invincible ignorance, and especially on those who are born within Christian ecclesial communities other than the Catholic and the Orthodox Church. They have never known otherwise, and Christ understands that.
However, His teaching is very clear and it is a teaching that calls everyone to be united in His visible Church.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
God wants everyone to be saved, but not od the same religions. The Jewish population is an example of this.
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Brendan_64
Guest
Despite our closeness in doctrine, the Orthodox Church is not in full communion with Christ’s visible Church and are also in schism. There cannot be two true Churches, Orthodox and Catholic, there can only be one.Of course, this is not imputable on those who are under invincible ignorance, and especially on those who are born within Christian ecclesial communities other than the Catholic and the Orthodox Church. They have never known otherwise, and Christ understands that.
However, His teaching is very clear and it is a teaching that calls everyone to be united in His visible Church.
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brb3
Guest
What ?God wants everyone to be saved, but not od the same religions. The Jewish population is an example of this.
Our first 40 years of Church was predominately Jewish. And many today also.
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