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aemcpa
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The answer is yes. 45 pages of discussion for a one-word answer is a little strange to me.
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JamesCaruso
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Yes.
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kibblerz
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Forgive me for speaking ill of the Catholic church on a well Catholic forum. But realize denomination doesn’t matter, and the Church teaches many doctrines, and many end up like the Pharisees holding the doctrines closer than they should. No the original church wasn’t the Catholic church nessescarily, there were more denominations than many people know, the dead sea scrolls prove that, though I don’t say the dead sea scrolls are reliable they do show denominations back then. The Lord does not want all to be Catholic, just christian. To believe that Christ ressurected and to love thy neighbor is all that is required for salvation. We are saved by grace, and not a denomination or doctrine. Learn to put aside doctrine to truly search for the Lord, doctrine kept the Pharisees from finding him, don’t let it keep you too.
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aemcpa
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Said Arius.
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Michele_Boyer
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“I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.” ~ Jesus (John 17:20-21 NAB)
Seems He meant for us to all be ‘one’ and that’s hard to do with so many denominations. Denominations exist because someone pointed out how we are different, or not “one” with each other. And since the gates of hell are NOT going to prevail, I think He’d like us to all stick together and weather these storms in unity rather than finding ways to disqualify one another.
Seems He meant for us to all be ‘one’ and that’s hard to do with so many denominations. Denominations exist because someone pointed out how we are different, or not “one” with each other. And since the gates of hell are NOT going to prevail, I think He’d like us to all stick together and weather these storms in unity rather than finding ways to disqualify one another.
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kibblerz
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That’s a really bad argument x.x the church is the body of christ, including every denomination who believes in Christ’s resurrection. Doctrine keeps us from being one, and The catholic church has far too much doctrine
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PRmerger
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Yes. We are thankful that non-Catholic missionaries spread the Christian gospel to those who never heard this…but this does not change the fact that these non-Catholic Christians spread only partial truths, or even heretical teachings.
No doubt.
But, again, it is not the fullness of Truth that is being spread by Protestants.
Amen! But some Protestants stand in the tradition of Apollos, full of fervor yet lacking in Truth. These Protestant missionaries are in need of being evangelized themselves with the fullness of Truth of His Body, the Catholic Church.
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Arrowsmith1994
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Jesus Christ wants us to “eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man”
Follow that where it goes.
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dbreiden
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“Too much doctrine”???
That’s like saying Mozart used too many notes! Doctrine is truth. We have too much truth? So let’s all be UUU and just decide to go with what makes us feel good??
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PRmerger
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Love this!“Too much doctrine”???
That’s like saying Mozart used too many notes!
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aemcpa
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Incorrect. It is sin that keeps us from being one.
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paul_c
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Denominations are defined by their beliefs and practices. To say that denominations don’t matter is to say that their beliefs and practices don’t matter. Do you really believe that this is the case?
A doctrine is a truth concerning faith or morals. They should be held close. The issue with the Pharisees wasn’t that they were holding on too tightly to the morals, only that they were maintaining them as a sense of duty rather than out of love for God and neighbor.
The original church as indeed Catholic. Don’t get confused by the existence of heretical sects. Remember, they are denounced throughout the New Testament.
Be careful when you presume to speak for Jesus. Do you think that Jesus approves of people changing the faith of the Church he founded on St. Peter just because those people claim to follow Jesus? Did Jesus not say in Matthew 7: 21-23, Not all that call me Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven?
These are your words, not Jesus’. He said that you need to eat his Bread and drink his blood to enter heaven (John 6). He said you needed to follow the commandments (Luke 18). He said you needed to be born again of water and spirit (be baptized) (John 3).
Being saved by grace IS a doctrine.
Doctrines lead you to Christ. This is a false dichotomy. You are greatly in error if you think you can understand the true nature of Christ without the Church. Without the church, you would be no better off than the pagans, without the Bible or Tradition.
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aemcpa
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Regarding the Pharisees, Our Lord said:
The Pharisees were not condemned because they held to doctrine; in fact, Our Lord acknowledged they were right to do so and admonished His followers to observe their doctrines as the orthodox faith.
Matthew 23:2-3 said:
The Pharisees were not condemned because they held to doctrine; in fact, Our Lord acknowledged they were right to do so and admonished His followers to observe their doctrines as the orthodox faith.
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Michele_Boyer
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God can pretty much works with any mess we create, and can use even these conditions to achieve His goals, for us, and despite us and our “helpful” efforts. Just as He’d like us all to live sinless lives, He knows that isn’t going to happen, but He still works with us as we are. In that line of thinking, He can also work with us in our divided state to the extent that we cooperate. Assuming Catholic Doctrine holds all the truths we need to do His work here, most of us don’t know all of those truths well enough to do the best job possible. Still, it’s enough.
I’m sure He’d love for us to all be members of the Church He, through Jesus, started. Not so much to be members of an organization, but to be without denominational divisions and the fears that separate us from one another.
But since we’re not particularly cooperative here (though we think we are) we split up over things that should have banded us together to pray for solutions. Yes, He loves all of us, and appreciates that we try. He knows how many of His followers were brainwashed to hate and fear Catholics, yet He forgives.
But He’d still prefer that we all join in one heart, mind and spirit. The Eucharist IS that one common denominator. If His presence in the Eucharist were present in other denominations, this question would be moot. Since it is only present in Catholic denominations (Eastern, Roman, etc.) it seems that Catholic would have to be His will.
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Michele_Boyer
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I meant to say “Still, it’s enough for God to work with us” but my editing time ran out.
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Michele_Boyer
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Just read this from today’s readings. Seems entirely appropriate to this conversation.
Todays Gospel Mk 9:38-40
John said to Jesus,
“Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.”
Jesus replied, “Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me.For whoever is not against us is for us.”
Todays Gospel Mk 9:38-40
John said to Jesus,
“Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.”
Jesus replied, “Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me.For whoever is not against us is for us.”
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aemcpa
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The Eucharist is present in the Orthodox Churches as well, but their separation from Rome is not God’s will.
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paul_c
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And that last line is the key, " whoever is not against us is for us." When Protestants preach about Christ, they do the church a service. When it devolves into anti-Catholicism, then of course, they are against us.
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Shirtless
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Please bear in mind that the universal Catholic Church is much larger than the Roman Rite. There are five principal rites of the universal church, all of which are in communion with the Apostolic See of Rome, and which maintain their own liturgies, disciplines, and customs. I am a Ukrainian Catholic (Byzantine Rite). In the Byzantine Rite, and in other Eastern Catholic churches, married men are ordained to the priesthood. The Byzantine Rite uses the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, which predates the Tridentine Latin Mass by at least 1,000 years. We also do not share the same view of Purgatory nor do we grant indulgences, because of our concept of the forgiveness of sin and the remission of punishment is different. Yet, we are in communion with Rome, and are in agreement in all essential matters of faith and morals.
Regarding whether there is a “requirement” that someone be Catholic, I submit that God will not be checking church membership cards at the door of heaven, and I would not rely on a “get out of a jail” card either (i.e. indulgence). The final decision belongs to Jesus Christ.
In the traditional Eastern Catholic greeting:
Glory be to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
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Kdruesedow
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This comment is rude and unhelpful. If you want to correct another member of the Christian community, do it with love and respect. And with details! your curt and unspecific reply reply isn’t going to convince anyone of your opinion.
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