Does God "worship" Mary?

  • Thread starter Thread starter codebilly
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

codebilly

Guest
Much has been debated on this forum regarding Catholic devotion to Mary. Non Catholics vehemently opposed to Marian devotion quote scripture to “defend” the position that Mary is ordinary, is not an intercessor, and is not meritorious of the devotion discharged by her Catholic devotees.

Often, non Catholics conclude that Catholics “worship Mary”.

Considering that the Bible is the “Word of God”, I ask the following questions to this community:

Who is the Lover in Solomon’s Canticle of Canticles (Song of Songs, Song of Solomon)?

Is God “the Lover” in the book of Canticles?

If God is the Lover, who is the beloved?

If the beloved is Mary, can it be said that God “worships” her?

**Solomon’s Canticle of Canticles.
Chapter 4

1 How beautiful art thou, my love, how beautiful art thou! thy eyes are doves’ eyes, besides what is hid within. Thy hair is as flocks of goats, which Come up from mount Galaad.

2 Thy teeth as flocks of sheep, that are shorn which come up from the washing, all with twins, and there is none barren among them.

3 Thy lips are as a scarlet lace: and thy speech sweet. Thy cheeks are as a piece of a pomegranate, besides that which lieth hid within.

4 Thy neck, is as the tower of David, which is built with bulwarks: a thousand bucklers hang upon it, all the armour of valiant men.

5 Thy two breasts like two young roes that are twins, which feed among the lilies.

6 Till the day break, and the shadows retire, I will go to the mountain of myrrh, and to the hill of frankincense.

7 Thou art all fair, O my love, and there is not a spot in thee.

8 Come from Libanus, my spouse, come from Libanus, come: thou shalt be crowned from the top of Amana, from the top of Sanir and Hermon, from the dens of the lions, from the mountains of the leopards.

9 Thou hast wounded my heart, my sister, my spouse, thou hast wounded my heart with one of thy eyes, and with one hair of thy neck.

10 How beautiful are thy breasts, my sister, my spouse! thy breasts are more beautiful than wine, and the sweet smell of thy ointments above all aromatical spices.

11 Thy lips, my spouse, are as a dropping honeycomb, honey and milk are under thy tongue; and the smell of thy garments, as the smell of frankincense.

12 My sister, my spouse, is a garden enclosed, a garden enclosed, a fountain sealed up.

13 Thy plants are a paradise of pomegranates with the fruits of the orchard. Cypress with spikenard.

14 Spikenard and saffron, sweet cane and cinnamon, with all the trees of Libanus, myrrh and aloes with all the chief perfumes.

15 The fountain of gardens: the well of living waters, which run with a strong stream from Libanus.

16 Arise, O north wind, and come, O south wind, blow through my garden, and let the aromatical spices thereof flow.**
 
the most common interpretation of the Song is the call of the lover, God, to the soul using human love, married love specifically, as an allegory for the far greater divine love and union of with God.
 
Well I dont see any Catholics disputing you.
NonCatholics however would say that the woman in Song of Soloman is a type of the universal church, the bride of Christ.
 
the most common interpretation of the Song is the call of the lover, God, to the soul using human love, married love specifically, as an allegory for the far greater divine love and union of with God.
The song is very personal. It sings of a woman most pure and beautiful beyond all others.

If what you are saying is true, then the soul is feminine.

Do non Catholics believe that Mary is the bride of God?
 
Well I dont see any Catholics disputing you.
NonCatholics however would say that the woman in Song of Soloman is a type of the universal church, the bride of Christ.
Do non Catholics opposed to Marian devotion, also believe Mary is the bride of God?
 
Do non Catholics opposed to Marian devotion, also believe Mary is the bride of God?
I believe in order to get a proper perspective of Mary you must take your focus off Mary and focus on God.
 
I believe in order to get a proper perspective of Mary you must take your focus off Mary and focus on God.
I don’t think Catholics would dispute that. It’s because of God’s elevation of Mary that we believe what we believe about her, not because of her, per se.
 
I believe in order to get a proper perspective of Mary you must take your focus off Mary and focus on God.
Not for me. It was because I focused on the Blessed Virgin that I became closer to God.
 
I believe in order to get a proper perspective of Mary you must take your focus off Mary and focus on God.
Does you mean that if the beloved of God in Canticles is Mary, we should just “focus on” the “Lover” passages of God’s word?
 
I believe in order to get a proper perspective of Mary you must take your focus off Mary and focus on God.
ps - you didn’t answer the question:

" Do non Catholics opposed to Marian devotion, also believe Mary is the bride of God?"
 
ps - you didn’t answer the question:

" Do non Catholics opposed to Marian devotion, also believe Mary is the bride of God?"
They have a saying in Maine --“you cant get there from here”
Jesus often did not answer questions directly but did so indirectly by trying to get those who were off track back on track. Of course He realized that it was over the head of most.
 
I don’t think Catholics would dispute that. It’s because of God’s elevation of Mary that we believe what we believe about her, not because of her, per se.
If your focus was on God The transcendant personal Maker of heaven and earth who is from everlasting and abides in those that believe, then Mary would have much less of an influence in your hearts, minds and lives.
 
They have a saying in Maine --“you cant get there from here”
Jesus often did not answer questions directly but did so indirectly by trying to get those who were off track back on track. Of course He realized that it was over the head of most.
Just answer the question … Is Mary the bride of God?
 
If your focus was on God The transcendant personal Maker of heaven and earth who is from everlasting and abides in those that believe, then Mary would have much less of an influence in your hearts, minds and lives.
Really?

Trying to switch the topic of this thread?

Please answer the question … Is Mary the bride of God?
 
Really?

Trying to switch the topic of this thread?

Please answer the question … Is Mary the bride of God?
They have a saying in Maine --“you cant get there from here”
Jesus often did not answer questions directly but did so indirectly by trying to get those who were off track back on track. Of course He realized that it was over the head of most.
 
If your focus was on God The transcendant personal Maker of heaven and earth who is from everlasting and abides in those that believe, then Mary would have much less of an influence in your hearts, minds and lives.
That’s your entirely subjective opinion.
 
The Song of Songs is a song about the love of God for Israel and Israel as His Bride. God married Israel in the covenant, and it is why He always refers to Israel as an unfaithful wife or adulterer when the Israelities ever turned from God to false gods and idols. Because the Church is the New Israel, the Song of Songs can be interpreted to mean the love of God for the Church and the Church as His Bride; and because Mary is a sign of the Church, the Song can be about the love of the New Adam for the New Eve and their spiritual marriage (the wedding of the Lamb being the Crucifixion, since by the sprinkling of the blood in the Old Covenant God took Israel in marriage, it is by spilling His Blood in the New Covenant that the New Adam has taken New Eve in marriage). And since the Church is called the ‘world reconciled’ and Christ redeemed all souls, the Song of Songs can be interpreted to mean the love of God for man and each soul as His redeemed creature. Finally, because sacramental matrimony is meant to be a sign of the love of Christ and His Church, the Song of Songs can mean the love of a man for a woman and the woman as his bride.
 
Much has been debated on this forum regarding Catholic devotion to Mary. Non Catholics vehemently opposed to Marian devotion quote scripture to “defend” the position that Mary is ordinary, is not an intercessor, and is not meritorious of the devotion discharged by her Catholic devotees.

Often, non Catholics conclude that Catholics “worship Mary”.

Considering that the Bible is the “Word of God”, I ask the following questions to this community:

Who is the Lover in Solomon’s Canticle of Canticles (Song of Songs, Song of Solomon)?

Is God “the Lover” in the book of Canticles?

If God is the Lover, who is the beloved?

If the beloved is Mary, can it be said that God “worships” her?

**Solomon’s Canticle of Canticles.
Chapter 4

1 How beautiful art thou, my love, how beautiful art thou! thy eyes are doves’ eyes, besides what is hid within. Thy hair is as flocks of goats, which Come up from mount Galaad.

2 Thy teeth as flocks of sheep, that are shorn which come up from the washing, all with twins, and there is none barren among them.

3 Thy lips are as a scarlet lace: and thy speech sweet. Thy cheeks are as a piece of a pomegranate, besides that which lieth hid within.

4 Thy neck, is as the tower of David, which is built with bulwarks: a thousand bucklers hang upon it, all the armour of valiant men.

5 Thy two breasts like two young roes that are twins, which feed among the lilies.

6 Till the day break, and the shadows retire, I will go to the mountain of myrrh, and to the hill of frankincense.

7 Thou art all fair, O my love, and there is not a spot in thee.

8 Come from Libanus, my spouse, come from Libanus, come: thou shalt be crowned from the top of Amana, from the top of Sanir and Hermon, from the dens of the lions, from the mountains of the leopards.

9 Thou hast wounded my heart, my sister, my spouse, thou hast wounded my heart with one of thy eyes, and with one hair of thy neck.

10 How beautiful are thy breasts, my sister, my spouse! thy breasts are more beautiful than wine, and the sweet smell of thy ointments above all aromatical spices.

11 Thy lips, my spouse, are as a dropping honeycomb, honey and milk are under thy tongue; and the smell of thy garments, as the smell of frankincense.

12 My sister, my spouse, is a garden enclosed, a garden enclosed, a fountain sealed up.

13 Thy plants are a paradise of pomegranates with the fruits of the orchard. Cypress with spikenard.

14 Spikenard and saffron, sweet cane and cinnamon, with all the trees of Libanus, myrrh and aloes with all the chief perfumes.

15 The fountain of gardens: the well of living waters, which run with a strong stream from Libanus.

16 Arise, O north wind, and come, O south wind, blow through my garden, and let the aromatical spices thereof flow.**
Billy you are terribly misinterpreting the song of songs. In a literal sense it speaks of a man and woman moving their relationship from a courtship to the final stage which would be consummation. In a figurative sense we can apply all kinds of meanings to it. Some suggest it’s allegory with regard to the relationship of GOD to Israel. But to suggest this is Mary is gleaning something that is not there. I think you’re getting stuck on the word woman.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top