Does Gravity Work "On It's Own"?

[Neil_Anthony]

No, I’m not saying that at all. I think the question should be more, “can matter operate OF its own, or rather, ON its own?” I don’t believe the former; I think the latter is possible. Is it not plausible to suggest that God has the power to say - “Atom, I have created you with a nucleus consisting of neutrons, protons and electrons. Electrons, you shall revolve around the nucleus in such and such a pattern, for such and such a time, at which point you shall do such and such - now do it.”, and the atom does it? At this point there would be no need for God to intervene in His creation’s operation, since it will do as He commanded. This doesn’t divorce God from His creation, rather, I believe it is suggestive of His omnipotence. Likewise, I think this is just as rational as saying God creates the atom and constantly micromanages every movement. This is also suggestive of His omnipotence. As I said before, I think both theories are just as plausible.

I posted a response to a very similar question here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5340518&postcount=23

Instead of typing it all out again, would you mind reading it there?

 

[pickguard1]

I posted a response to a very similar question here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5340518&postcount=23

Instead of typing it all out again, would you mind reading it there?

From that post
Naturally, we tend to anthropomorphize God. We think of him like a man, but a really powerful and smart man. So we try to imagine him building the universe like we would make a clock. And we assume that, being as smart as He is, he would make the universe automatic, not manual.

But, lets apply our tests for manual vs automatic to God’s creation. Test #1 says that if the object keeps moving when we’re not touching it, it must be automatic, not manual. How do we apply this to God? God does not have fingers to move objects around, he has an omnipotent will that causes things to be. He can will that an atom exist, and He can will that it is at one location or another location, and He can will its velocity. So, the metaphorical equivalent to the watchmakers finger is God’s will. To test whether God’s creation is manual or automatic, God must remove his will for the existence and location of the object, and see if it continues to exist.

But, theology tells us that God holds creation in existence. It is God’s will that keeps things existing. If God removes His will, the object will disappear. If God no longer wills for an object to behave according to the laws of gravity, it will no longer behave in that way. So, this test shows that God’s creation is equivalent to a human inventor’s manual clock, not an automatic clock.

Saying that something operates on its own (not “of” its own) doesn’t imply the absence of God’s will. Rather, it imputes that it IS God’s will that it operate on its own. To say that it is not possible that God can will that something operate on its own, according to His specific design is to imply that there is a limit to God’s will. One could argue that if it is God’s will that something works on its own according to a specific design and function, such as gravity, that “technically” His will is guiding every action and accident of it, since it was His will that created how those actions and accidents occur.

I think that much of the problem with trying to understand the concept of how God’s will works in reference to the laws of nature hinges on our inability to comprehend that God is outside time. So, in reality, the theories that God “constantly wills things to do one thing or another from one moment to the next,” or that “God willed something to operate ‘automatically’” are intrinsically flawed, since they apply our concept of time to God’s will. The fact that God is outside time means that, yes, His will keeps all creation in existence. But we need not impute some sort of time frame to God’s will, simply because we see the fruit of His will through the restricted vision of time as we experience it.

This is ultimately why both arguments/theories are equally plausible - because in reality, they apply to how WE see things occuring in time. They don’t really apply to God’s will at all, just how we are able to see it. One can’t properly say about God’s will that He willed something yesterday, and wills something today - this imputes time to God’s will, which is outside time. The actuality is that “God wills.” Period. All creation is due to the singular will of God.

However, if we’re talking about HOW we see the fruit of God’s singular will, we can apply our concept of time to what we see. In this sense it is possible to say that God, in creating a certain thing willed that it operate on its own according to laws he sets forth, or conversely that God uses His will to direct every action of everything in creation.

Boiling it down, both arguments if properly understood argue the exact same thing, that the existence and actions of all things are entirely due to the singular will of God.

 

[dkeys2001]

I think this discussion has as much relevance as the late scholastic period question - “How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?” Nonetheless, it is interesting to hear the latest theories on how God makes gravity work.

On the other hand, think of how many souls might be saved if the time spent thinking about whether God moves every particle were devoted to praise, worship, thanksgiving, fasting, etc.

Dave

 

[pickguard1]

I think this discussion has as much relevance as the late scholastic period question - “How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?” Nonetheless, it is interesting to hear the latest theories on how God makes gravity work.

On the other hand, think of how many souls might be saved if the time spent thinking about whether God moves every particle were devoted to praise, worship, thanksgiving, fasting, etc.

Dave

While I agree that this topic may not have much substance, in that there isn’t any proof of one theory over another in this realm, and that prayer, praise, etc. is necessary for the salvation of souls, I think it’s silly to discount an honest attempt to understand the nature of God and how He works as contrary to praise, worship, thanksgiving, etc. Rather, shutting the mind off to understanding God is counter to what the Catechism teaches us our purpose is: to know, love, and serve the Lord.

Now, getting into an in depth discussion of whether it is preferrable to arrive at work 2 minutes early or 3 minutes early is the type of thing that is a waste of time. Discussing and trying to wrap one’s mind around how God’s will works is not.

 

[edwest2]

First of all, God sustains all things. So, no, gravity does not have an independent function from God.

Gravity is a function of mass, speed and direction. I have a multiton rocket that I want to get out of earth’s gravity. I need to accelerate to a certain speed while going away from the earth. Energy like light (photons) and radio (electromagnetic) waves move at the speed of light but this energy can be bent or absorbed.

Finally, the cloud of electrons moving around the nucleus of an atom must lose energy in the process but it is theorized that they receive zero point energy from some, as yet uncertain source.

Peace,
Ed