Does Gun Control Prevent Gun Crime?

[goofyjim]

First question, Do you live in the US? Second, Have you ever been voluntarily or otherwise, committed to a mental institution?

If you are only taking medicine, you can honestly fill out the Form 4476 which is what is used to purchase a firearm in the US. It asks about mental illness and you should only answer yes if you have been institutionalized for an illness.

Shizophenia and severe depression are two that prevent gun ownership due to the violent tendencies of these people towards themselves and others.

We should not only worry about what mentally unstable people would do to other people, they are more prone to suicide than the general population.

Also, Felons have lost all rights under the constitution, unless restored by law, and are more likely to offend again, even violently due in part to the hardening they experienced in prison. Most violent criminals couldn’t care less who is involved in their crimes, they shoot women, children, the elderly, who ever happens to be in the way. The only way to prevent this is life without parole for ALL violent crimes, to include domestic violence.

I’ve been institutionalized but only voluntarily. I ask again if my doctor determines me to be stable currently why should I not have the same right to protection as the rest of the population?

 

[mgrobertson79]

I’ve been institutionalized but only voluntarily. I ask again if my doctor determines me to be stable currently why should I not have the same right to protection as the rest of the population?

Because mental illnesses can become unstable at any time and cause more harm than good, even though your only intent by owning the weapon was your protection, it could possibly be used against you or towards someone else without you actually intending either.

 

[goofyjim]

Because mental illnesses can become unstable at any time and cause more harm than good, even though your only intent by owning the weapon was your protection, it could possibly be used against you or towards someone else without you actually intending either.

Same could be said for anyone. Mental illnesses can hit anyone at anytime. So if they got their gun before it hit they are allowed to keep it but otherwise they are forbidden to own one? Obviously my rights under the second amendment are being violated because there is an assumption that I will misuse the weapon.

 

[hosemonkey]

I’ve been institutionalized but only voluntarily. I ask again if my doctor determines me to be stable currently why should I not have the same right to protection as the rest of the population?

Are you stable as long as you take your meds properly? If you have been diagnosed as mentally ill, medical authorities are going to have to put their names on a piece of paper stating that you will not present a threat to the rest of the populace. When it comes to firearms, I doubt wether any Doc in his right mind is going to do that. If you can honestly answer the questions on a concealed carry permit application, then you are good to go, but I again doubt that law enforcement will grant you a permit if they have knowledge of a diagnosed mental illness. Question is: would you grant YOU a permit?

 

[goofyjim]

All I am saying folks is that it has been often repeated that we have a moral obligation to defend our own lives. The only defense against one gun is another gun. If I, due to a minor illness, am denied my second amendment rights I am also left with no way to fulfill my moral obligation if I ever have a family. Unless one believes that the mentally ill do not have a right to raise a family. But I’m sure we don’t want to go there.

 

[mgrobertson79]

All I am saying folks is that it has been often repeated that we have a moral obligation to defend our own lives. The only defense against one gun is another gun. If I, due to a minor illness, am denied my second amendment rights I am also left with no way to fulfill my moral obligation if I ever have a family. Unless one believes that the mentally ill do not have a right to raise a family. But I’m sure we don’t want to go there.

If you can get a determination from your physician that you are well, no drugs, no counseling, then you may be able to purchase. You will never be allowed to carry concealed due to the institutionalization.

 

[goofyjim]

If you can get a determination from your physician that you are well, no drugs, no counseling, then you may be able to purchase. You will never be allowed to carry concealed due to the institutionalization.

Then on a fair and equal note someone who otherwise has owned a gun and becomes diagnosed afterwards should have theirs taken away from them. There is a serious misconception that the mentally ill are all violent and potential criminals. We need a lot of education here.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Same could be said for anyone. Mental illnesses can hit anyone at anytime. So if they got their gun before it hit they are allowed to keep it but otherwise they are forbidden to own one? Obviously my rights under the second amendment are being violated because there is an assumption that I will misuse the weapon.

But the odds of a previously-diagnosed person acting irrationally is much greater that a person who has no mental problems.

While there are some mental problmems that do not represent a threat, there are others that are pretty clear indicators of potentially violent behavior.

And after all, we don’t allow blind people to be airline pilots, nor do we force the NBA to have “proportionally representative” teams with short, fat players.

 

[mgrobertson79]

But the odds of a previously-diagnosed person acting irrationally is much greater that a person who has no mental problems.

While there are some mental problmems that do not represent a threat, there are others that are pretty clear indicators of potentially violent behavior.

And after all, we don’t allow blind people to be airline pilots, nor do we force the NBA to have “proportionally representative” teams with short, fat players.

We also do not allow the majority of white folk to get welfare or even disability, even when qualified.

 

[goofyjim]

But the odds of a previously-diagnosed person acting irrationally is much greater that a person who has no mental problems.

While there are some mental problmems that do not represent a threat, there are others that are pretty clear indicators of potentially violent behavior.

And after all, we don’t allow blind people to be airline pilots, nor do we force the NBA to have “proportionally representative” teams with short, fat players.

That is where the lack of education on mental illness needs to be addressed. One never knows when it will hit. But if one is compliant with medical treatment they can stay just as stable as anyone else. Everyone is missing my point. Why do I not have the right to defend myself since it is my moral obligation to do such?

 

[hosemonkey]

That is where the lack of education on mental illness needs to be addressed. One never knows when it will hit. But if one is compliant with medical treatment they can stay just as stable as anyone else. Everyone is missing my point. Why do I not have the right to defend myself since it is my moral obligation to do such?

You DO have the right to defend yourself, you will just have to use other means. I suggest a good, sharp cutlass. It also has a certain panache.

 

[melensdad]

Everyone is missing my point. Why do I not have the right to defend myself since it is my moral obligation to do such?

You do have the right, and the obligation. . . but potentially not with a gun. What is stopping you from taking martial arts classes? Or from buying a bullet proof vest?

 

[mgrobertson79]

You DO have the right to defend yourself, you will just have to use other means. I suggest a good, sharp cutlass. It also has a certain panache.

Unless you live in a socialist state, such as NY, NJ, MD, CA or IL, invest in a taser or a thing of pepper spray. The taser works well and is actually funny to see what it does to people. It will make a 300 pound guy drop to the ground and soil himself in a fraction of a second.

 

[goofyjim]

Apparently we are missing the point of equal rights so I will bow out of this thread.

 

[mgrobertson79]

Apparently we are missing the point of equal rights so I will bow out of this thread.

Thank you for doing so because criminals and those deemed unfit by society do not have equal rights, thus says the US government.

 

[goofyjim]

Thank you for doing so because criminals and those deemed unfit by society do not have equal rights, thus says the US government.

The criminals are unfit by society not the mentally ill so we have equal rights.

 

[mgrobertson79]

The criminals are unfit by society not the mentally ill so we have equal rights.

No sir, the mentally ill do not have equal rights and have been deemed not to have a right to possess a firearm. It isn’t all about purchasing, the mere possession of a firearm by a mentally ill person is a felony by federal law.

 

[goofyjim]

No sir, the mentally ill do not have equal rights and have been deemed not to have a right to possess a firearm. It isn’t all about purchasing, the mere possession of a firearm by a mentally ill person is a felony by federal law.

Simply because someone in their own insanity deem the mentally ill unfit for society. Not a particularly Christian approach.

 

[mgrobertson79]

Simply because someone in their own insanity deem the mentally ill unfit for society. Not a particularly Christian approach.

Thats because the masons run our government, but thats a different topic all together. But honestly, if you had a gun and snapped and tried to use it on me, I would have no other option but to shoot to kill.

 

[goofyjim]

Thats because the masons run our government, but thats a different topic all together. But honestly, if you had a gun and snapped and tried to use it on me, I would have no other option but to shoot to kill.

Of course if you do the same I’m dead meat. Once again you are making an erroneous assumption that I would snap. And I cannot assume that you wouldn’t.