Does Gun Control Prevent Gun Crime?

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mgrobertson79

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Does gun control prevent gun crimes? The evidence actually suggest the opposite. In cities with gun bans, Chicago and Washington D.C. to name a few, violent crimes increased soon after strict gun bans were put in place. Do people have a right to self defense? The Church says so. Do criminals abide by gun laws?(or any other law) the courts in the U.S. have decided on numerous occasions that law enforcement does not have a duty to protect, only a general duty to enforce the law.
 
mgrobertson79 said:
Does gun control prevent gun crimes? The evidence actually suggest the opposite. In cities with gun bans, Chicago and Washington D.C. to name a few, violent crimes increased soon after strict gun bans were put in place. Do people have a right to self defense? The Church says so. Do criminals abide by gun laws?(or any other law) the courts in the U.S. have decided on numerous occasions that law enforcement does not have a duty to protect, only a general duty to enforce the law.
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What is needed is to post the titles and authors of some books that interested folks can purchase so they have have the relevant detailed information at their fingertips.
 
mgrobertson79 said:
Does gun control prevent gun crimes? The evidence actually suggest the opposite.
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Could say the same for drug control. Obviously that doesn’t work, or is too hard to police. Let’s do away with those laws, and to continue the absurd argument, with legal drugs, drug-related crime would be reduced
 
Montalban said:
I thought Americans were a tough lot, but for them the problem is simply too big for them so why bother taking it on (so it seems from what they’re arguing).
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I agree. Not that were intentionally being condescending, but to take that position (that it’s all too hard) is defeatist and fatalistic, traits that I would not normally associate with Americans.
 
levi86 said:
I agree. Not that were intentionally being condescending, but to take that position (that it’s all too hard) is defeatist and fatalistic, traits that I would not normally associate with Americans.
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I can imagine some people making similar arguments about slavery - how slave owners threatened to die, rather than surrender their property rights.

For those who cite the constitution, how come you allow exceptions to the rule to ‘arm’ yourselves
a) on federal property - such as a court
and
b) limitations on types of ‘arms’ such as explosives, or machine guns?
 
That’s an interesting report. America’s NRA paints a different picture. Darn statistics! It all depends on who’s quoting them, I guess.

In the Australia report, it said there was an 20% increase in robberies not involving firearms, and an implication that sexual assault increased (but it didn’t say how much). If I was quoting that statistic, I would say that it was more than a 20% offset to the 30% decrease mentioned earlier. It would appear to me that if many of those being robbed or assaulted would have had a weapon, perhaps the number of robberies and assaults would have been reduced. We had a case of an 80-year-old former Miss America that fended off a couple of robbers because she had a gun.

I don’t know… I’m still of the opinion that a criminal wants to commit a crime, he will find a way. Criminals are typically tougher physically than the average person (nope, no data, just an assumption). Therefore the weaker “good guys and gals” should be allowed to have a weapon, if they choose. However, ownership must include meeting strict training criteria.
 
the gun culture is so ingrained in your society it is hard to say what the answers are, but something is wrong in which this maniac legally bought his weaponry and ammo with ease, also how much legally bought guns fall into criminal hands through theft?
 
cainem said:
the gun culture is so ingrained in your society it is hard to say what the answers are, but something is wrong in which this maniac legally bought his weaponry and ammo with ease, also how much legally bought guns fall into criminal hands through.

Good question. And is precisely where most of them get guns.
That is where most of the guns found in the hands of criminals in states or cities have very strict guns laws come from. Yes, we could have a buy back program and perhaps many law abiding citizens would turn in their guns. The criminals won’t. And I doubt most gun owners who have obtained their weapon(s) legally will either.
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Grace_Angel said:
Absolutely gun control reduce firearm offences.
I am horrified at the gun laws of USA. More guns does not equate safety, in fact it equates for more violations.
From an australian
Grace Angel.
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Actually you are wrong. There are over 20,000,000 guns owned by Americans. only 20,000 deaths are attributed to gun violence and this mostly due to gang violence. I think we should consider Australia a penal colony once more and send our thugs there. You are right about it being ingrained in our culture, it is also ingrained in our Constitution. Many of us would die before that right were taken away, especially by some foreigner. Just remember what happened in NAZI Germany, Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Dafur, Uganda and other countries with tyrannical leaders. It WILL NOT happen here. We will not be disarmed, regardless of what the international community thinks or wants.
 
levi86 said:
I agree. Not that were intentionally being condescending, but to take that position (that it’s all too hard) is defeatist and fatalistic, traits that I would not normally associate with Americans.
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Criticize all you wish. That is your right. However, do not compare the US to Australia or Scotland or anywhere else. We are an entirely different country, with a much larger population and with very different population. It is not defeatist or fatalistic to be realistic and that gun control in this country is not in accordance with our Constitution at least in the way you think. We do have laws governing ownership but as in everything else some folks fall between the cracks. And right now we are so politically correct that our licensing agencies do not always have all the facts necessary in a background check.
 
mgrobertson79 said:
Does gun control prevent gun crimes? The evidence actually suggest the opposite. In cities with gun bans, Chicago and Washington D.C. to name a few, violent crimes increased soon after strict gun bans were put in place.
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Source?
Do people have a right to self defense? The Church says so.
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The Church says we have the right to defend ourselves if we are attacked. It also says that the legitimate authorities in a state have a right and duty to defend its people from aggression. It says nothing about the average citizen arming himself.
Do criminals abide by gun laws?(or any other law)
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With respect, this is a completely bogus argument. The fact that people routinely break a given law is not a valid reason to abolish that law – otherwise, the Church would long ago have made fornication morally acceptable, and governments would have long since abolished speed limits.
the courts in the U.S. have decided on numerous occasions that law enforcement does not have a duty to protect, only a general duty to enforce the law.
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Source?

Peace,
Dante
 
Larry1700 said:
That’s an interesting report. America’s NRA paints a different picture. Darn statistics! It all depends on who’s quoting them, I guess.
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Homer: People can come up with statistics to prove anything Kent. Forty percent of people know that!

In the Australia report, it said there was an 20% increase in robberies not involving firearms, and an implication that sexual assault increased (but it didn’t say how much). If I was quoting that statistic, I would say that it was more than a 20% offset to the 30% decrease mentioned earlier. It would appear to me that if many of those being robbed or assaulted would have had a weapon, perhaps the number of robberies and assaults would have been reduced. We had a case of an 80-year-old former Miss America that fended off a couple of robbers because she had a gun.

I don’t know… I’m still of the opinion that a criminal wants to commit a crime, he will find a way. Criminals are typically tougher physically than the average person (nope, no data, just an assumption). Therefore the weaker “good guys and gals” should be allowed to have a weapon, if they choose. However, ownership must include meeting strict training criteria.

What I’ve seen put forward, on one thread was a comparison of two different sets of crimes.

Certainly there can be slight rises and falls, but over-all crime per 100,000 (involving guns) is not on the rise.

See post #191
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=148073&page=8
 
mgrobertson79 said:
Actually you are wrong. There are over 20,000,000 guns owned by Americans. only 20,000 deaths are attributed to gun violence and this mostly due to gang violence. I think we should consider Australia a penal colony once more and send our thugs there. You are right about it being ingrained in our culture, it is also ingrained in our Constitution. Many of us would die before that right were taken away, especially by some foreigner. Just remember what happened in NAZI Germany, Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Dafur, Uganda and other countries with tyrannical leaders. It WILL NOT happen here. We will not be disarmed, regardless of what the international community thinks or wants.
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Iraq’s a great example. They’re full of guns. Look how safe it is 😊
 
mgrobertson79 said:
Actually you are wrong. There are over 20,000,000 guns owned by Americans. only 20,000 deaths are attributed to gun violence and this mostly due to gang violence.
Click to expand...
Source?
I think we should consider Australia a penal colony once more and send our thugs there.
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This is rude, immature, and completely unnecessary.
You are right about it being ingrained in our culture, it is also ingrained in our Constitution. Many of us would die before that right were taken away, especially by some foreigner.
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I’m sure this is the saddest thing I’ve ever heard someone say they are willing to give their life for.
Just remember what happened in NAZI Germany, Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Dafur, Uganda and other countries with tyrannical leaders. It WILL NOT happen here. We will not be disarmed, regardless of what the international community thinks or wants.
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Please. This is completely irrelevant. If you look at the circumstances in each of these nations (which, by the way, are not completely formulaic), you will see that the rise of totalitarianism was due to many factors – the least of which was the inability of the populace to own guns.

EDIT:

Check this out:
The 1928 law was subsequently extended in 1938 under the Third Reich (this action being the principal point in support of the contention that the Nazis were advocates of gun control). However, the Nazis were firmly in control of Germany at the time the Weapons Law of 1938 was created. Further, this law was not passed by a legislative body, but was promulgated under the dictatorial power granted Hitler in 1933. Obviously, the Nazis did not need gun control to attain power as they already (in 1938) possessed supreme and unlimited power in Germany. The only feasible argument that gun control favored the Nazis would be that the 1928 law deprived private armies of a means to defeat them. The basic flaw with this argument is that the Nazis did not seize power by force of arms, but through their success at the ballot box (and the political cunning of Hitler himself). Secondary considerations that arise are that gun ownership was not that widespread to begin with, and, even imagining such ubiquity the German people, Jews in particular, were not predisposed to violent resistance to their government.
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Peace,
Dante
 
mgrobertson79 said:
Actually you are wrong. There are over 20,000,000 guns owned by Americans. only 20,000 deaths are attributed to gun violence and this mostly due to gang violence. I think we should consider Australia a penal colony once more and send our thugs there. You are right about it being ingrained in our culture, it is also ingrained in our Constitution. Many of us would die before that right were taken away, especially by some foreigner. Just remember what happened in NAZI Germany, Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Dafur, Uganda and other countries with tyrannical leaders. It WILL NOT happen here. We will not be disarmed, regardless of what the international community thinks or wants.
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Then mgrobertson79, you have to live with the consequences which you have experienced recently. I hope your “rights” are worth it. And as for the despots, yeah yeah yeah, same old story to be used when you want your “right” to weapon to be safeguarded.
Well as long as you have your gun laws, you will have the same episodes you have had recently and over recent years. Sorry and you wont change your mind until someone from your family is lost violently, then perhaps you might see that guns actually kill, even loved ones.
Grace Angel.
 
DanteAlighieri said:
Source?

This is rude, immature, and completely unnecessary.

I’m sure this is the saddest thing I’ve ever heard someone say they are willing to give their life for.

Please. This is completely irrelevant. If you look at the circumstances in each of these nations (which, by the way, are not completely formulaic), you will see that the rise of totalitarianism was due to many factors – the least of which was the inability of the populace to own guns.

EDIT:

Check this out:

Peace,
Dante
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All these quotes from Mrobertson posts are indeed nasty and rude and uncalled for. More weapons breed more violence.
And Australia is one of the most peaceful nations on earth, and its one of the most literate and well managed nations on earth. and its one of the most advanced in the medical fields on earth.
And I am able to walk through the streets without fear. And we have the best social security system in the world.
I have trav elled, to Portugal, England, New Zealand, Croatio, PNG, France, Italy (4 times) and I will state categorically that australia is the cleanest, most beautiful country on earth. So Mrobertson, you keep your weapons. We have had one massacre (Tasmania) in recent memory and guns laws tightened further after that.
We are happy wwith what we have,
As far as your “australia is a penal colony” well what the heck do you think you anglo saxons/europeans got to America?
Your native Americans are the same as our aboriginal inhabitants, the rest are migrants, including you sport.
Grace Angel.
 
mgrobertson79 said:
I think we should consider Australia a penal colony once more and send our thugs there.
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Aren’t you American?

When was Australia a penal colony of the USA? (for you to have ‘sent *our *thugs there’), or did you think that Australia contracted out its gaols (that’s ‘jails’ to Americans) to any nation?
 
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