Does Hebrews 8:10-11 imply that God is limiting our free will?

[Robert_Sock]

Douay-Rheims Bible Hebrews 8:10-11
I will give my laws into their mind, and in their heart will I write them: and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me from the least to the greatest of them:

I’ve always thought of free will as more of an illusion, but I agree that in certain situations we are free to choose.

Does God really value a complete and total free will?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Douay-Rheims Bible Hebrews 8:10-11
I will give my laws into their mind, and in their heart will I write them: and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me from the least to the greatest of them:

I’ve always thought of free will as more of an illusion, but I agree that in certain situations we are free to choose.

Could you elaborate on why you think this is limiting free will?

If you are drawing that from “They shall not teach…” then I’d point out that the passage indicates that this is because it will not be necessary, not because God has made it impossible.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Could you elaborate on why you think this is limiting free will?

If you are drawing that from “They shall not teach…” then I’d point out that the passage indicates that this is because it will not be necessary, not because God has made it impossible.

God would largely be in control of our choices if that passage from Hebrews is true. Where is the free will in that? Our minds will have been altered to more easily serve God.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

God would largely be in control of our choices if that passage from Hebrews is true. Where is the free will in that? Our minds will have been altered to more easily serve God.

Could you explain how you arrived at this conclusion? I don’t follow how that passage indicates that God would be in control of our choices. Please elaborate.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Could you explain how you arrived at this conclusion? I don’t follow how that passage indicates that God would be in control of our choices. Please elaborate.

Not complete control, but God will be using His strength and power to sway us to serve only Him. (I’m fine with it!)

 

[Tom_Baum]

God would largely be in control of our choices if that passage from Hebrews is true. Where is the free will in that? Our minds will have been altered to more easily serve God.

Or that we do the right thing for the right reason rather than it being “forced” on us.

Ever thought of it as having a conscience, rather than a set of rules written in concrete?

Some people do seem to like it better when things are “forced” on them rather than having to make their own decision from their heart and mind.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Not complete control, but God will be using His strength and power to sway us to serve only Him. (I’m fine with it!)

That’s… not an explanation.

Can you articulate how this passage supports the conclusion you’ve arrived at?

If you can, please do so I can really discuss it with you.

If you can’t, then perhaps you should rethink holding a position you can’t explain your reasoning for.

I hope you know I’m not trying to be mean, you’ve just really not given much substance to build a discussion around. I find the subject of free will really fascinating, and I love discussing it, so please, elaborate.

 

[Robert_Sock]

That’s… not an explanation.

Can you articulate how this passage supports the conclusion you’ve arrived at?

If you can, please do so I can really discuss it with you.

If you can’t, then perhaps you should rethink holding a position you can’t explain your reasoning for.

I hope you know I’m not trying to be mean, you’ve just really not given much substance to build a discussion around. I find the subject of free will really fascinating, and I love discussing it, so please, elaborate.

Free will: The power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies. In the example, God is constraining us by writing Hid name on our foreheads. True free will is so limited in this physical world.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Free will: The power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies. In the example, God is constraining us by writing Hid name on our foreheads. True free will is so limited in this physical world.

Okay, that’s a good step in the right direction. Now, could you please explain how God writing his will into our hearts impede’s our free will?

After all, I can know exactly what my parent’s will for me is and still chose to reject it. Similarly, I can know what God’s will for me is and freely chose to reject it. How would having knowledge of God’s will prevent us from exercising our free will?

 

[Robert_Sock]

Okay, that’s a good step in the right direction. Now, could you please explain how God writing his will into our hearts impede’s our free will?

After all, I can know exactly what my parent’s will for me is and still chose to reject it. Similarly, I can know what God’s will for me is and freely chose to reject it. How would having knowledge of God’s will prevent us from exercising our free will?

 

[Robert_Sock]

Okay, that’s a good step in the right direction. Now, could you please explain how God writing his will into our hearts impede’s our free will?

After all, I can know exactly what my parent’s will for me is and still chose to reject it. Similarly, I can know what God’s will for me is and freely chose to reject it. How would having knowledge of God’s will prevent us from exercising our free will?

It’s not His writing His will within our hearts that concerns me, but His altering our mind so as to ‘choose’ to better serve Him.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

It’s not His writing His will within our hearts that concerns me, but His altering our mind so as to ‘choose’ to better serve Him.

Okay, again, I have to ask, where are you getting this from? This is nowhere in that passage you quoted above. There is no mention of altering, heck, there isn’t even mention of choosing. If you’re drawing this from somewhere else, please include that, but there’s nothing in that passage that supports what you’re saying.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Okay, again, I have to ask, where are you getting this from? This is nowhere in that passage you quoted above. There is no mention of altering, heck, there isn’t even mention of choosing. If you’re drawing this from somewhere else, please include that, but there’s nothing in that passage that supports what you’re saying.

Is my choice of words that important? Are you saying that that passage does not infer an altering of our heart and mind in a way that is meant to affect what we choose?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Is my choice of words that important? Are you saying that that passage does not infer an altering of our heart and mind in a way that is meant to affect what we choose?

That is exactly what I’m saying.

I will give my laws into their mind, and in their heart will I write them: and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:

God has written his laws into our hearts. He has made us his people. Check.

And they shall not teach every man his neighbour and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me from the least to the greatest of them:

As a result of these laws being written into our hearts, it will not be necessary for men to tell each other that we are children of the Lord because we will know it innately, as we shall know his laws. Again, check.

Unless you can tell me why knowing God’s laws would affect our free will, then you do not have a valid argument. Why would knowing that something is against God’s will prevent us from being able to do it? Again, I refer you back to my example about the parents. I can know that my parents have told me not to do something; that doesn’t change the fact that I can still freely chose to do it.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Douay-Rheims Bible Hebrews 8:10-11
I will give my laws into their mind, and in their heart will I write them: and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me from the least to the greatest of them:

I’ve always thought of free will as more of an illusion, but I agree that in certain situations we are free to choose.

Does God really value a complete and total free will?

The natural law is manifested through this passage. As with all laws, we are free to obey or disobey. The more we disobey, the more lunatic we become. All great criminals demonstrate this fact in the way they live and/or die. We cannot erase the laws that are etched on our hearts.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I guess I just have trouble accepting free will, especially in absolute terms. There are just so many variables tied to our choices that severely limit free will. I for one would be fine with God just told me that I was going to be His “puppet” I would have been set at ease from the very beginning.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I guess I just have trouble accepting free will, especially in absolute terms. There are just so many variables tied to our choices that severely limit free will. I for one would be fine with God just told me that I was going to be His “puppet” I would have been set at ease from the very beginning.

You’re not his puppet though, and you have the hard task of choosing him. God desires for us to live him, love can not be taken, nor can it be “programmed in” by not giving us free will. Love can only be given freely. As such, it is absolutely necessary that we be capable of enacting our wills and choosing for or against God.

It might not be comforting, but by denying free will you are denying God’s desire for us to love him.

 

[pianistclare]

Much like a “shotgun wedding” that would hardly satisfy one’s desire to be loved.

God desires us.
He wants us to enter into that relationship with Him. Freely.

 

[Robert_Sock]

You’re not his puppet though, and you have the hard task of choosing him. God desires for us to live him, love can not be taken, nor can it be “programmed in” by not giving us free will. Love can only be given freely. As such, it is absolutely necessary that we be capable of enacting our wills and choosing for or against God.

It might not be comforting, but by denying free will you are denying God’s desire for us to love him.

How I wish I could take the credit for my choosing Him!

John 15:16 “You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you,” This passage seems to strongly reduce free will. He won’t leave me alone!

 

[Robert_Sock]

My main point is that our free will is usually not 100% free, but varies considerably.