Does ignorance excuse mortal sin?

[MarianD]

As in, if you commit a mortal sin in ignorance (i.e. not knowing that it’s a mortal sin), would that excuse you of being in a state of mortal sin?

For example, I didn’t know that a form of gluttony was eating too eagerly. I’ve read that St. Thomas Aquinas stated this, but I didn’t accept it as true (I thought it was just his opinion on the matter) until I read that Pope St. Gregory I also said this (and Papal Infallibility would make this God’s Opinion). So I ate too eagerly, ignorant of the fact that I was committing gluttony. So am I excused from being in a state of mortal sin or even of having committed the sin of gluttony?

Furthermore, what exactly classifies as “Overeating”? I’ve always assumed that once you feel full, eating or drinking past that comprises of gluttony except in extreme cases (like trying to store up food in preparation for a long period without food). And waiting 30 minutes until you no longer feel full and then eating a little bit more does NOT mean one has committed gluttony. Am I right?

Lust and gluttony…two sins I’ll be confessing every week unless I get some help and guidance from Mother Mary.

 

[TheQuestioner]

As in, if you commit a mortal sin in ignorance (i.e. not knowing that it’s a mortal sin), would that excuse you of being in a state of mortal sin?

For example, I didn’t know that a form of gluttony was eating too eagerly. I’ve read that St. Thomas Aquinas stated this, but I didn’t accept it as true (I thought it was just his opinion on the matter) until I read that Pope St. Gregory I also said this (and Papal Infallibility would make this God’s Opinion). So I ate too eagerly, ignorant of the fact that I was committing gluttony. So am I excused from being in a state of mortal sin or even of having committed the sin of gluttony?

Furthermore, what exactly classifies as “Overeating”? I’ve always assumed that once you feel full, eating or drinking past that comprises of gluttony except in extreme cases (like trying to store up food in preparation for a long period without food). Am I right?

Lust and gluttony…two sins I’ll be confessing every week unless I get some help and guidance from Mother Mary.

Yes, ignorance excuses mortal sin.

btw, not every single word or opinion of a Pope counts as an Infallible doctrine. There are very specific conditions by which this is done.

 

[SamDash]

Yes.

Mortal sin has three requirements: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. (CCC 1857).

Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin (CCC 1859)

 

[yellowbird]

Ok… so along those lines, here’s a follow up to the OP’s question… hope you don’t mind? Suppose your adult married sister tells you that she & her husband are using artificial birth control. They’ve prayed about it… even talked to a Priest about it… and this is the route they are going to go truly believing that God is OK with it. Although you know full well ABC is a mortal sin, wouldn’t it be better to just leave it alone because if you were to educate her on the error of her thinking, she would then BE in mortal - whereas if you left her ignorant - as the OP suggested - she would NOT be in a state of mortal sin.

And you love your sister dearly and do not want her to end up in hell.

 

[TheQuestioner]

Ok… so along those lines, here’s a follow up to the OP’s question… hope you don’t mind? Suppose your adult married sister tells you that she & her husband are using artificial birth control. They’ve prayed about it… even talked to a Priest about it… and this is the route they are going to go truly believing that God is OK with it. Although you know full well ABC is a mortal sin, wouldn’t it be better to just leave it alone because if you were to educate her on the error of her thinking, she would then BE in mortal - whereas if you left her ignorant - as the OP suggested - she would NOT be in a state of mortal sin.

And you love your sister dearly and do not want her to end up in hell.

If your adult married sister consulted a priest and is still not convinced that what she is doing is mortally wrong then she is simply being rebellious by not following Church teaching. That being the case, she already does know that what she is doing is identified as a mortal sin to the Church but chooses not to acknowledge this. Also, her sin could also be willful ignorance (not knowing something she should otherwise know, or is her duty to know as a Catholic).

We are called to educate others on bad behavior. God knows the working of her heart, so if she is told it is a mortal sin and she still doesn’t believe it is, but deep down knows she is lying to be selfish or prideful, then she is condemned. If you don’t tell her, there is no guaranteeing she will not be condemned (the Samurai of Japan killed themselves for honor, whether or not they will be held culpable is hard to say). So, she is doing something wrong and since the laws of God are written on her heart, her own heart may testify against her anyway.

 

[fermat]

As in, if you commit a mortal sin in ignorance (i.e. not knowing that it’s a mortal sin), would that excuse you of being in a state of mortal sin?

For example, I didn’t know that a form of gluttony was eating too eagerly. I’ve read that St. Thomas Aquinas stated this, but I didn’t accept it as true (I thought it was just his opinion on the matter) until I read that Pope St. Gregory I also said this (and Papal Infallibility would make this God’s Opinion). So I ate too eagerly, ignorant of the fact that I was committing gluttony. So am I excused from being in a state of mortal sin or even of having committed the sin of gluttony?

Furthermore, what exactly classifies as “Overeating”? I’ve always assumed that once you feel full, eating or drinking past that comprises of gluttony except in extreme cases (like trying to store up food in preparation for a long period without food). And waiting 30 minutes until you no longer feel full and then eating a little bit more does NOT mean one has committed gluttony. Am I right?

Lust and gluttony…two sins I’ll be confessing every week unless I get some help and guidance from Mother Mary.

Overeatting and drinking is relative. An athlete would consume twice the calories as someone else and that would be fine because the action is necessary. Scarfing down a bag of chips would be a good example of something that is not necessary.

I have found that even though most people may not consciously know something is wrong, their moral compass (aka the Holy Spirit) is going to give them a poke. If they choose to listen to to that poke, they’ll do some research. Even then, there is a difference between knowing and accepting. Knowing is easy. Accepting, not so much so.

One note on papal infallibility. The pope will very straight forward about it and will only exercise that charism in certain circumstances. It wouldn’t consider the statement above to fit that class.

 

[yellowbird]

If your adult married sister consulted a priest and is still not convinced that what she is doing is mortally wrong then she is simply being rebellious by not following Church teaching. That being the case, she already does know that what she is doing is identified as a mortal sin to the Church but chooses not to acknowledge this. .

According to my sister her Priest told them to follow their own conscience. He did NOT tell them it was a mortal sin. She lives in a SUPER liberal area. Her parish has a very active gay & lesbian club as well… just saying. OH - and this… when she came for a visit, after mass she she said, “Your church still has kneelers… how old fashioned and cute is that?” Get the picture?

That being the case - why would I want to educate her? I believe she’ll continue to use ABC… (she is adamant about no more kids) so because of that, it’s better to leave her in her ignorance. She doesn’t believe what she’s doing is wrong at all.

 

[TheQuestioner]

According to my sister her Priest told them to follow their own conscience. He did NOT tell them it was a mortal sin. She lives in a SUPER liberal area. Her parish has a very active gay & lesbian club as well… just saying. OH - and this… when she came for a visit, after mass she she said, “Your church still has kneelers… how old fashioned and cute is that?” Get the picture?

That being the case - why would I want to educate her? I believe she’ll continue to use ABC… (she is adamant about no more kids) so because of that, it’s better to leave her in her ignorance. She doesn’t believe what she’s doing is wrong at all.

Because maybe she may be excused by God because she doesn’t know, maybe. Again, no matter what her priest said, the wrongfulness about ABC is something she ought to now, regardless of what her priest may say. You may be the nudge she needs so that she may remember that she has a duty to educate herself as a Catholic. This is not the middle-ages. Her only source of Church teaching is not her priest. There are many many resources and I very much doubt she has never ever come across anyone telling her about the Catholic Church’s stance on ABC, otherwise she would have never asked her priest about it in the first place.

Aside from all of this, even if she doesn’t know and may be completely ignorant by no fault of her own there is also another problem. Sin breeds sin. That’s it’s job. It doesn’t end there. So they may be doing something wrong that they don’t know is actually wrong (taking ABC), but since sin breeds sin, other sins come out of this situation, like her husband objectifying her, which happens easily when couples use ABC and quite often, or her unopenness to life, or viewing children more as a trophy than as a blessing, gift and responsibility sent by God (which people who don’t have kids can sometimes do, me included:blush.

Btw, by knowingly not telling her the truth and correcting her, God may actually all the punishments she would have gotten on your own head. This is what God said to Jeremiah anyway when He told him to preach to Israel.

 

[yellowbird]

Because maybe she may be excused by God because she doesn’t know, maybe. Again, no matter what her priest said, the wrongfulness about ABC is something she ought to now, regardless of what her priest may say. You may be the nudge she needs so that she may remember that she has a duty to educate herself as a Catholic. This is not the middle-ages. Her only source of Church teaching is not her priest. There are many many resources and I very much doubt she has never ever come across anyone telling her about the Catholic Church’s stance on ABC, otherwise she would have never asked her priest about it in the first place.

Aside from all of this, even if she doesn’t know and may be completely ignorant by no fault of her own there is also another problem. Sin breeds sin. That’s it’s job. It doesn’t end there. So they may be doing something wrong that they don’t know is actually wrong (taking ABC), but since sin breeds sin, other sins come out of this situation, like her husband objectifying her, which happens easily when couples use ABC and quite often, or her unopenness to life, or viewing children more as a trophy than as a blessing, gift and responsibility sent by God (which people who don’t have kids can sometimes do, me included:blush.

Btw, by knowingly not telling her the truth and correcting her, God may actually all the punishments she would have gotten on your own head. This is what God said to Jeremiah anyway when He told him to preach to Israel.

You’ve made some very good points… and I thank you.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

According to my sister her Priest told them to follow their own conscience. He did NOT tell them it was a mortal sin. She lives in a SUPER liberal area. Her parish has a very active gay & lesbian club as well… just saying. OH - and this… when she came for a visit, after mass she she said, “Your church still has kneelers… how old fashioned and cute is that?” Get the picture?

That being the case - why would I want to educate her? I believe she’ll continue to use ABC… (she is adamant about no more kids) so because of that, it’s better to leave her in her ignorance. She doesn’t believe what she’s doing is wrong at all.

Hi. I’m sure that somewhere along the line she heard that ABC is forbidden. So she might “know” what the truth is.

Maybe reiterate when she brings it up, something like, " You know it’s still a sin right?"

I can understand the sentiment though. Never underestimate the benefit your prayers for her can have. Pray for her to accept the truth.

 

[thistle]

According to my sister her Priest told them to follow their own conscience. He did NOT tell them it was a mortal sin. She lives in a SUPER liberal area. Her parish has a very active gay & lesbian club as well… just saying. OH - and this… when she came for a visit, after mass she she said, “Your church still has kneelers… how old fashioned and cute is that?” Get the picture?

That being the case - why would I want to educate her? I believe she’ll continue to use ABC… (she is adamant about no more kids) so because of that, it’s better to leave her in her ignorance. She doesn’t believe what she’s doing is wrong at all.

One problem is that you don’t actually know what the priest said. You are taking at face value what your sister told you.
You know what the Church teaching is on ABC and it is your responsibility to tell your sister what the Church teaches.If she does not want to accept your word then show her the teaching in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which overrules anything the priest may have said about ABC being okay.

CCC 2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:

Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.

 

[FMLJoliecouer]

According to my sister her Priest told them to follow their own conscience. He did NOT tell them it was a mortal sin. She lives in a SUPER liberal area. Her parish has a very active gay & lesbian club as well… just saying. OH - and this… when she came for a visit, after mass she she said, “Your church still has kneelers… how old fashioned and cute is that?” Get the picture?

That being the case - why would I want to educate her? I believe she’ll continue to use ABC… (she is adamant about no more kids) so because of that, it’s better to leave her in her ignorance. She doesn’t believe what she’s doing is wrong at all.

I dont see the problem if she doesnt want children…Natural family planning is way more effecive and safe, when done properly than any method of articficial birth control out there.
One other thing…I dont get…how is a parish that has a very active gay and lesbian club considered liberal ? How does being gay or lesbian welcoming a a parish make a parish more liberal ? It doesnt mean…oh go ahead and have sex with whoever you want? I know lots of celebate gay people who are Catholic. But I know …that isnt the point you were trying to make anyhow.