Does "in the beginning" mean Eternity?

[pohandes]

In Previous discussion, about John1:1, the main argument was “Only God can exist in beginning”.

I think the first creature can be in the beginning and God can create somethings without time

 

[pohandes]

It seems that Bible points that some creatures like God’ mercy and love are eternal:

Remember, LORD, your tender mercies and your gracious love; indeed, they are eternal! (Psalm25:6 International Standard Version)

But from everlasting to everlasting the LORD’s love is with those who fear him, and his righteousness with their children’s children. (Psalm103:17)

then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave your ancestors for ever and ever. (Jeremiah 7:7)

If I wrong, Help me

 

[Vico]

In Previous discussion, about John1:1, the main argument was “Only God can exist in beginning”.

I think the first creature can be in the beginning and God can create somethings without time

Space-time is a creation of the Holy Trinity. All creations are ex nihilo.

 

[John_Martin]

St. Augustine goes to great lengths to say:
“In the beginning” equals " in the Word" equals “in the Son” equals “in the begotten Wisdom”.
“Beginning” is not a reference to “time” but of “being” unchanging.

 

[pohandes]

Before the creation of space-time there is only the Holy Trinity. All creations are ex nihilo.

Yes, But “in the beginning” can point to start of creation, not before it.

St. Augustine goes to great lengths to say:
“In the beginning” equals " in the Word" equals “in the Son” equals “in the begotten Wisdom”.
“Beginning” is not a reference to “time” but of “being” unchanging.

What you mean “being unchanging”?

 

[Gorgias]

Yes, But “in the beginning” can point to start of creation, not before it.

I think you’re trying to take the text too literalistically. You’re using a 21st-century-science approach on a text that wasn’t written in that idiom.

 

[pohandes]

I think you’re trying to take the text too literalistically. You’re using a 21st-century-science approach on a text that wasn’t written in that idiom.

I am not using a 21st-century-science approach on this text. I just mean that “in the beginning” does not necessarily mean the eternity.

 

[Gorgias]

I am not using a 21st-century-science approach on this text.

You’re asking questions that the text doesn’t attempt to address. You’re looking at it from a very Western approach, which presumes things that the inspired author wouldn’t have been working with.

 

[Vico]

Vico:

Before the creation of space-time there is only the Holy Trinity. All creations are ex nihilo.

Yes, But “in the beginning” can point to start of creation, not before it.
…

Note that I reworded my post to “Space-time is a creation of the Holy Trinity. All creations are ex nihilo.”

 

[pohandes]

You’re asking questions that the text doesn’t attempt to address. You’re looking at it from a very Western approach, which presumes things that the inspired author wouldn’t have been working with.

Sorry sir. You fix me.

Note that I reworded my post to “Space-time is a creation of the Holy Trinity. All creations are ex nihilo. ”

The verse says “all”, not all creations.

 

[John_Martin]

What you mean “being unchanging”?

Not Temporal being, but unchanging, not “before” anything temporally, etc. “In the beginning” IS, just as “God IS”. “Before Abraham WAS, ‘I AM’ .” etc.

 

[pohandes]

Not Temporal being, but unchanging, not “before” anything temporally, etc. “In the beginning” IS, just as “God IS”. “Before Abraham WAS, ‘I AM’ .” etc.

Explain please.

 

[John_Martin]

Explain please.

You have an element of “unchanging” about you, though there was a temporal time before you came to be born.
Assuming your name is “pohandes” and has been “pohandes” since your birth, since your earliest knowing of yourself, you knew, “I am pohandes”.
When 5 years old, “I am pohandes.” At 10 years old, you know, “I am pohandes.” And when twenty years of age, “I am pohandes”, and when you turn 80 years old, you will know, “I am pohandes.”
In your soul, which is your beginning, you know, and animate repeatedly your bodily voicing of your knowing, that “I am pohandes.”
Your being, formed in your soul, is what you are and have been since you were made, your “I am pohandes,” and your materially conscious thought finds itself always aware of who you are without change, even though the material of your body changes and moves over time, even though your thoughts come and go, still your knowing never is different as to your being.

You are Pohandes.
I am John Martin

 

[pohandes]

You have an element of “unchanging” about you, though there was a temporal time before you came to be born.
Assuming your name is “pohandes” and has been “pohandes” since your birth, since your earliest knowing of yourself, you knew, “I am pohandes”.
When 5 years old, “I am pohandes.” At 10 years old, you know, “I am pohandes.” And when twenty years of age, “I am pohandes”, and when you turn 80 years old, you will know, “I am pohandes.”
In your soul, which is your beginning, you know, and animate repeatedly your bodily voicing of your knowing, that “I am pohandes.”
Your being, formed in your soul, is what you are and have been since you were made, your “I am pohandes,” and your materially conscious thought finds itself always aware of who you are without change, even though the material of your body changes and moves over time, even though your thoughts come and go, still your knowing never is different as to your being.

You are Pohandes.
I am John Martin

You are right. But Jesus did not say “I am who I am” or “I am YHWH”

 

[John_Martin]

You are right. But Jesus did not say “I am who I am” or “I am YHWH”

Let me then say it explicitly,
When you were 5 you knew “I am”.
When you were 10 you knew “I am”.
When you were 20 you knew “I am” (and you did not wonder, “Who was that 15 years ago saying ‘I am’? and who said ‘I am’ 10 and 5 years ago because today, ‘I am’?”
“I am” never changed even though the body and dates changed around the body whose thoughts echoed “I am”.

I used your name in the example, not because you say it (“I am pohandes”) but so you recognize your self participating in the self-knowing.

It is not remarkable to say “I am pohandes” or “I am John Martin”; what is remarkable and aeviternal is knowing the same “I am” unchanging all through a temporal life with ever changing thoughts.

(YHWH means HE WHO IS, it does not mean ‘I AM’, as shown here:The Name | SoftVocation ; YHWH is a way of not saying ‘I AM’ because you are afraid of saying God’s name.)

 

[Richca]

The beginning of St John’s gospel, verses 1-5, is very reminiscent of Genesis 1, the seven day creation narrative of the world. Both start with “In the beginning”. By, “In the beginning”, is John referencing back to Genesis 1:1, the beginning of creation? I think he is but at the same time, as some fathers and doctors of the Church interpreted it, the phrase “In the beginning” in John 1:1, can also imply an ‘absolute beginning’ or eternity. Either interpretation is in conformity with the catholic faith.

If we take John 1:1 “In the beginning” as referencing back to Genesis 1:1, the beginning of creation, John says “was the Word.” That is, in the beginning of creation of Gen. 1:1, the Word already is, He already exists at the beginning of creation. John continues “and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” The Word is eternal and God as God (the Father) is.

Each day of the six day creation narrative of Genesis 1 begins with “And God said”. God spoke a word and some creature or part of creation was created. The word God spoke in Genesis 1 is the Word in St John’s gospel and so John says “all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made”.

God could have created the universe of creatures from eternity but He didn’t. Through divine revelation, God’s word, we are told that creation has a beginning, it is not eternal, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Gen. 1:1).

 

[pohandes]

Let me then say it explicitly,
When you were 5 you knew “I am”.
When you were 10 you knew “I am”.
When you were 20 you knew “I am” (and you did not wonder, “Who was that 15 years ago saying ‘I am’? and who said ‘I am’ 10 and 5 years ago because today, ‘I am’?”
“I am” never changed even though the body and dates changed around the body whose thoughts echoed “I am”.

Yes. I’ll always be “I am”. It is a good reason to prove that we have soul! And our souls do not change.

It is not remarkable to say “I am pohandes” or “I am John Martin”; what is remarkable and aeviternal is knowing the same “I am” unchanging all through a temporal life with ever changing thoughts.

(YHWH means HE WHO IS, it does not mean ‘I AM’, as shown here:The Name | SoftVocation ; YHWH is a way of not saying ‘I AM’ because you are afraid of saying God’s name.)

You are right, But let talk about this, in another thread.

The beginning of St John’s gospel, verses 1-5, is very reminiscent of Genesis 1, the seven day creation narrative of the world. Both start with “In the beginning”. By, “In the beginning”, is John referencing back to Genesis 1:1, the beginning of creation? I think he is but at the same time, as some fathers and doctors of the Church interpreted it, the phrase “In the beginning” in John 1:1, can also imply an ‘absolute beginning’ or eternity. Either interpretation is in conformity with the catholic faith.

If we take John 1:1 “In the beginning” as referencing back to Genesis 1:1, the beginning of creation, John says “was the Word.” That is, in the beginning of creation of Gen. 1:1, the Word already is, He already exists at the beginning of creation. John continues “and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” The Word is eternal and God as God (the Father) is.

Each day of the six day creation narrative of Genesis 1 begins with “And God said”. God spoke a word and some creature or part of creation was created. The word God spoke in Genesis 1 is the Word in St John’s gospel and so John says “all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made”.

God could have created the universe of creatures from eternity but He didn’t. Through divine revelation, God’s word, we are told that creation has a beginning, it is not eternal, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Gen. 1:1).

This Thread is not about John1:1. We had this here: Word was Real God? - #28 by Gorgias

 

[Vico]

Gorgias:

You’re asking questions that the text doesn’t attempt to address. You’re looking at it from a very Western approach, which presumes things that the inspired author wouldn’t have been working with.

Sorry sir. You fix me.

Note that I reworded my post to “Space-time is a creation of the Holy Trinity. All creations are ex nihilo. ”

The verse says “all”, not all creations.

What verse?

 

[pohandes]

What verse?

John 1:3 says “Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.”

It is all things, not all creatures.

 

[Vico]

Vico:

What verse?

John 1:3 says “Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.”

It is all things, not all creatures.

all things = all beings and objects

Merriam-Webster definition of thing, (noun):
1. an object or entity not precisely designated or capable of being designated

Merriam-Webster definition of entity, (noun):
1a. being, existence

Merriam-Webster definition of object, (noun):
1a. something material that may be perceived by the senses