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Ching_PBUH
Guest
Disgustingly “tolerant” these chosen people of Allah…
They prey on minorities. When they got tired of their women they can just invoke “adultery”. When they are in enmity with non-muslims they invoke “blasphemy”
- Status
They prey on minorities. When they got tired of their women they can just invoke “adultery”. When they are in enmity with non-muslims they invoke “blasphemy”
M
mjdonnelly
Guest
Please provide a link to your quote so we can read all of the article and see the source.Disgustingly “tolerant” these chosen people of Allah…
C
Ching_PBUH
Guest
Oooopsss! The link was given by StMarkEofE in his response to JimG:
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47380
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Shadowcry
Guest
Yeah I was responding to cestudai
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Shadowcry
Guest
Ching have you ever been to a Muslim country?
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
A Muslim may enter Vatican City (as witness by the many moderate Muslims and even the King and Queen of Jordan who went to the late pope’s funeral Mass). A Christian may NOT even ENTER Mecca (it’s okay for them to enter when they need to regain control though, as evidence of when the French went to help the Saudi government when the Iranians took it over [Muslims must be unable to regain control of their sacred sites to let infidels in there]).
Get your “statistics” straight. ;p
When my friend (a businessman) tried to get a cab in Saudi Arabia recently, the cabbie asked him if he was Christian. He said he was Catholic. The cabbie pulled over and told him to get out of his cab. Real tolerant religion eh?
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Shadowcry
Guest
Semper Fi maybe it was just the man how could you blame a religion for his actions.
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
Who said I was blaming an entire religion for his actions? They’re just observations. It’s culture + religion. In Muslim countries Muslims are taught that Christians have less rights. How would you like it?
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Ching_PBUH
Guest
From where do YOU think he acquire such hatred? From his math textbook during his schooling days?
C
cute2904
Guest
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
I would like to put down many of the myths purported here by “Statistics”. The Crusades were launched in response to Muslim attacks on Christian Europe and Ottoman advances. Quit trying to play victim here, had the Moors not taken control of Spain or France, the Spanish Inquisition never would have happened either. An Inquisition deals with Christians, it did not deal with Muslims. If a Muslim claimed that they had converted to Christianity but really had not, they were investigated by the Inquisition. When the Inquisition was launched, it was in response to centuries of Muslim rule in Spain. The Spanish were simply trying to regain control of their Catholic culture and put down a possible take over by the Ottoman Empire. Your statistics really are skewed.Year is of your lord,not mine
Through mortal eyes years are unimportant,to some it might have some meaning,to others those are just shallow promises!
You said today is day of your lord and Muslims arent civilized and intollerant
Let me tell you something
Was Toma De Torquemada Muslim?
Was Richard the LionHeart Muslim?
Were Mongols Muslims that killed 30 000 Muslims in Baghdad after they torched him and kill most of population in 1258
Biggest city of world then
Were Portuguese tolerant when they expelled Jews before Spain,or should i say Aragon and Catalonia,pre 1492
Sweden accepted Jews only in 1746,like most of western Europe
Were Filipinos tolerant when they came and killed Muslims who were there for 500 years resisting Spaniards,but to some ,maybe they should have been killed
In Most of Muslim countries there are plenty of Christian President,and Prime Ministers today
Burkina Faso has Christian president
Senegal had Christian president for over 25 years, in a country which is 95% Muslim
Tanzania had christian president for over 3 decades,majority of population are Muslims
Is Olesogun Obasanjo a Muslim?
President of Nigeria,Muslim country
in 1991 census showed Muslims were 53% ,christians rioted
And now religious affilation is no longer there
In 1967 Tanzania again census showed clear muslim majority
Again Christian rebeled and disputed figures,even though everything was legal
Thats when they took a military strike and took control of country
Was Biafra a Christian country or Muslim?
Somebody forgot to tell somebody that souther part of so called Thailand was incorporated into Thailand only in 1906 by Brits
And before that time,there were no rebelions or killing!
Wonder why?
Beslan is crime,but somebody forgot to tell Chechens just to watch being occupied and having their towns destroyed
Maybe its all good,Muslims will just say big WELCOME SIGN,and sign the songs
Dont get me wrong
i dont care about Osama, hes really for me crazy rich spoiled guy
Or that Zawahiri dude
Its not about Al Queda or Osama
Its more global
i pity you if you didnt know that,please tell me im a liar,cause im not
World biggest catholic cathedral is not in a christian country
No its in Yamasoukro Ivory Coast where Muslims are 45%.and in Vatican city there are not more 1 Muslim,and he must be hired help,scrubing toilets and such
Tell me was there a Muslim President in Usa?
Well Muslims are tinority minority here,but so are christians Catholics in Senegal
Is there any Muslim senator per say in Usa?
Out of 100,name me one?
You cant because it doesnt exist
How many people in power Muslim are in Uk,or France?
None
Should i give you recently list of slaughters commited by christiand and expulsion in last 50 years
Since i did mention crusades and such
Or perhaps Muslims arent guilty,maybe its Fox news
Tamil tigers are blowing themself en masse,but nobody is ever mentioning a something like occupation of Palestine
Or maybe somebody isnt quoting words of famous crusaders
I will enter Meccah and il chew the bones of that dog Mohhamed
There were many harsher words,from popes who sat at their nice chair and send people overseas for some nice and peacefully crusades
And dont preach me about tolerance
When Turks took Istanbul or Constantinopol in1453 they didnt raise churches to the ground,like christians did to the mosques
Only handfull were transfered to Mosques and those now serve only as museum latest example Aya Sofia
In same town you have christian church ffrom 11 century
I wonder now,how many mosques pre 1492 period remained in Spain?
None!
Also, those are not “Muslim countries”. They are not ruled by Islamic Sharia law. When has there been a qualified Muslim run for political office here in America? When was the last time a Muslim ever ran for any office in America? I’d like you to tell me this.
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Shadowcry
Guest
Semper Fi:
This includes not killing people because they have killed.
Your justification for the crusades is flawed.
The Catholic Church does not do evil to do the supposed “greater good”I would like to put down many of the myths purported here by “Statistics”. The Crusades were launched in response to Muslim attacks on Christian Europe and Ottoman advances. Quit trying to play victim here, had the Moors not taken control of Spain or France, the Spanish Inquisition never would have happened either. An Inquisition deals with Christians, it did not deal with Muslims. If a Muslim claimed that they had converted to Christianity but really had not, they were investigated by the Inquisition. When the Inquisition was launched, it was in response to centuries of Muslim rule in Spain. The Spanish were simply trying to regain control of their Catholic culture and put down a possible take over by the Ottoman Empire. Your statistics really are skewed.
Also, those are not “Muslim countries”. They are not ruled by Islamic Sharia law. When has there been a qualified Muslim run for political office here in America? When was the last time a Muslim ever ran for any office in America? I’d like you to tell me this.
This includes not killing people because they have killed.
Your justification for the crusades is flawed.
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
The crusades were launched to regain previously Christian lands (i.e. in response to Muslim attacks and aggression).
How much do you know of what really happened during the Crusades?
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mjdonnelly
Guest
Refer to what Semper Fi wrote, I edited this becaus eI saw his after I wrote the same thing.
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Rodrigo_Bivar
Guest
Of course Islam does not accept religious tolerance. Jizya was not a trifling matter. Dhimmitude was not an easy living. Jizya was to subjugate and humiliate the People of the Book. It doesn’t apply to peoples of other religions.
Also, this tu quoque argument is tiresome and so Islamic. None of the Spanish who expelled the Muslim invaders etc. were prophets of God. None of the Christian crusaders, who were only trying to retrieve Christian lands, were prophets of God. One would have thought prophets of God would have exemplary behavior instead of being as bloodthirsty as the next thug.
Here are some of the evidence of the religious intolerance in Islam:
Quran 9:5 Hilali and Khan: Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
ahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah’s Apostle said: “I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah.”
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 196:
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386:
Narrated Jubair bin Haiya: … Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- “Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master.” …
Sahih Muslim vol.3:4294
“Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from then and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhajirs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muslims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai’ (property abandoned by fleeing non-Muslims] except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers.) If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from the Jizya [tax]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them.”
I’m looking forward to ripping apart the Muslim excuses.
Cheers,
Mata Moro
Also, this tu quoque argument is tiresome and so Islamic. None of the Spanish who expelled the Muslim invaders etc. were prophets of God. None of the Christian crusaders, who were only trying to retrieve Christian lands, were prophets of God. One would have thought prophets of God would have exemplary behavior instead of being as bloodthirsty as the next thug.
Here are some of the evidence of the religious intolerance in Islam:
Quran 9:5 Hilali and Khan: Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
ahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah’s Apostle said: “I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah.”
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 196:
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386:
Narrated Jubair bin Haiya: … Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- “Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master.” …
Sahih Muslim vol.3:4294
“Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from then and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhajirs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muslims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai’ (property abandoned by fleeing non-Muslims] except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers.) If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from the Jizya [tax]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them.”
I’m looking forward to ripping apart the Muslim excuses.
Cheers,
Mata Moro
D
DeExupery
Guest
One more addition.
Who said that in Indonesia, the spread of Islam is Peaceful?
In West Java, Kian Santang even killed his own Hindu Father, Prabu Siliwangi before taking hold of the kingdom.
I agree that in the first place, the moslems trader were peaceful…and the moslems were peaceful, and those Buddhist and Hindu kings were not aware of the evil behind those angelic masks.
When they gained power, they simply revolted, make their own kingdoms, even occupied other kingdoms.
Peaceful, huh?
Fox
P.S. Of course, some of this are not mentioned in Indonesian History book. Even the killing of Prabu Siliwangi was changed by the story of “moksa”.
The problem is that comparative history of Islam is impossible, because moslems killed people opossing them.
Mata Moto, what a very splendid explanation for all of us here.
Who said that in Indonesia, the spread of Islam is Peaceful?
In West Java, Kian Santang even killed his own Hindu Father, Prabu Siliwangi before taking hold of the kingdom.
I agree that in the first place, the moslems trader were peaceful…and the moslems were peaceful, and those Buddhist and Hindu kings were not aware of the evil behind those angelic masks.
When they gained power, they simply revolted, make their own kingdoms, even occupied other kingdoms.
Peaceful, huh?
Fox
P.S. Of course, some of this are not mentioned in Indonesian History book. Even the killing of Prabu Siliwangi was changed by the story of “moksa”.
The problem is that comparative history of Islam is impossible, because moslems killed people opossing them.
Mata Moto, what a very splendid explanation for all of us here.
B
beconvinced
Guest
Rodrigo Bivar:
Here first of all you misqouted the meaning of the verse. I don’t know if you know the Arabic language but by looking at the meaning of verse 9:5, it appears that you are a dishonest person. You did not check what you are qouting. Probably you mindlessly copied and pasted here thinking people will not notice your trick.
Here is what the verse 9:5 says, but first you need to read it from verse 1 and proceed to verses beyond 5 to see the whole context:
So, Mr.Bivar,
From where did you get the word “Jizya” in this verse? Now I just only qouted the verses and did not go into the SHA’N ANNUZOOL of these and the historical context in which these verse were revealed and who were those Mushrikun. Were they simply Mushrikun or trouble makers.
But I suggest you to do some search and know Islam from Islamic persepective, before making a fool out of yourself.
Well, Mr, Rodrigo Bivar
Here first of all you misqouted the meaning of the verse. I don’t know if you know the Arabic language but by looking at the meaning of verse 9:5, it appears that you are a dishonest person. You did not check what you are qouting. Probably you mindlessly copied and pasted here thinking people will not notice your trick.
Here is what the verse 9:5 says, but first you need to read it from verse 1 and proceed to verses beyond 5 to see the whole context:
Code:
1. Freedom from (all) obligations (is declared) from Allâh and His Messenger to those of the Mushrikûn (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh), with whom you made a treaty.
2. So travel freely (O Mushrikûn - See V.2:105) for four months (as you will) throughout the land, but know that you cannot escape (from the punishment of) Allâh; and Allâh will disgrace the disbelievers.
3. And a declaration from Allâh and His Messenger to mankind on the greatest day (the 10th of Dhul-Hijjah - the 12th month of Islâmic calendar) that Allâh is free from (all) obligations to the Mushrikûn (See V.2:105) and so is His Messenger. So if you (Mushrikûn ) repent, it is better for you, but if you turn away, then know that you cannot escape (from the Punishment of) Allâh. And give tidings (O Muhammad of a painful torment to those who disbelieve.
4. Except those of the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfil their treaty to them for the end of their term. Surely Allâh loves Al-Mattaqûn (the pious - See V.2:2).
**5. Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (See V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.**
6**. And if anyone of the Mushrikûn (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh) seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the Word of Allâh (the Qur’ân), and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not**.From where did you get the word “Jizya” in this verse? Now I just only qouted the verses and did not go into the SHA’N ANNUZOOL of these and the historical context in which these verse were revealed and who were those Mushrikun. Were they simply Mushrikun or trouble makers.
But I suggest you to do some search and know Islam from Islamic persepective, before making a fool out of yourself.
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Shadowcry
Guest
Semper Fi:
I would have to doubt your knowledge of the crusades considering you think the ottomans had something to do with the crusades.
irrelevent arguement what does it have to do with wat i said.
I would have to doubt your knowledge of the crusades considering you think the ottomans had something to do with the crusades.
S
Shadowcry
Guest
Yeah same thing happened with the spread of Christianity.
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Rodrigo_Bivar
Guest
Do you think your argument ad hominem fallacy washes? No. Who is being dishonest? Not me. I will prove that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
First of all, I must apologize for making a mistake. The verse is not 9:5 but 9:29 but you didn’t even realise that, did you? Shows how much you know about surah 9.
No. The ayat I quoted was not 9:5 but 9:29. However, no matter. I will rip your apologetics to shreds.
Here Muhammad unilaterally cancels all obligations to the Mushrikun. Here, Allah and Muhammad claim that there would be no obligation towards the Mushrikun.
Because Allah and Muhammad unilaterally cancelled all obligations to the Mushrikun, they give the Mushrikun 4 months before the hostilities start. How merciful.
Convert or die.
Okay, Allah found his earlier remarks a bit harsh. Muhammad can now decide to honor some treaties he made with some Mushrikun. All others who have not made treaties or if Muhammad does not decide to cancel treaties with, are fair game.
After these 4 months - kill all Mushrikun. But if they convert then they are allowed to live. How merciful.
If the Mushrikun beg for mercy so that they can learn about Islam and convert, you can set them free so they can convert.
That is because you did not realise I was talking about 9:29 and not 9:5. Shows how much you know about the Quran.
Next…
- Status