Does Islam accept religious toleration?

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Ching_PBUH:
Sorry, much as I would like to believe you, what we see happening as a direct interpretation and application of those HATE VERSES, shows the exact opposite!
wrong. it’s a direct misinterpretation and misapplication of those divine Quranic verses. big difference.
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Ching_PBUH:
Come on man, these guys are saying “Allahoooo Akhbarrrrrrrr!” and later their command center would issue statments saying “We are responsible!” Don’t tell me I am ignorant about Islam, it’s them that is the real problem ! I am the guy who says, " Bingo! so that’s why they do it! " like do a lot of other kuffar!

Don’t blame me, blame them who demonstrate “real Islam”
you are ignorant about islam. that’s a fact which is indicated by your many posts here. as for who’s the real problem, then the blame falls both on those muslims upon deviant understandings as well as people who are ignorant of islam, spreading hate propaganda and trying to attack it and defame it on account of that ignorance. so don’t think finger pointing is going to alleviate you of any blame in the matter. you’re just as guilty as those muslims ignorant of their religion and the correct understanding and application of it.
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Ching_PBUH:
Don’t you ever forget, your prophet and his allaha did worst then us kuffars! They issue hate command and carried them out physically, then by the prophet and his mercenaries and now by his faithfuls. Empty vessels, in this case is not dangerous, the most they do is just to make noise.
worse than the kuffaar (which btw is a plural word, not singular)? i’m sure the those muslim non-combatants who were massacred during the crusades and who had their bellies ripped open in search of gold and money that was supposedly hidden in them think likewise… :rolleyes: . the main difference between what’s going on now and what went on back then is that now, you have fringe muslim groups, extremist in their mentality, understanding and application who follow deviant ideologies foreign to islam whereas back then the crusades were ordered by the recognised authority of your religion, the institution of the church. just because it happened ages ago doesn’t make it right, nor does it wipe the blood of your religion’s hands.
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Ching_PBUH:
Thak you! Yes there are, and they are Muslims drawing from the Quran. I admire your sincerity.
thank me for what? stating a fact that you refuse to acknowledge? that these groups are acting contrary to islam’s teachings and proper understanding? their drawing from the Quran does not legitimise their deviance and contradiction of the Quran’s and prophet muhammad’s teachings. saying that is does is like us saying that the extremism and deviance of the KKK or other cultish groups is legitimised by the fact that they too claim to take their beliefs from the bible.
 
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Ching_PBUH:
Hihihihi… Acheh tsunami was the work of US and Israel too
You say so? … didn’t know that … I believe you then …
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Ching_PBUH:
Palestinian suicide bombings are actually Zionist ploy!
Now that I can agree with, easily.
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Ching_PBUH:
“Oooooohhhhh Yessssss Islam is a tolerant religion”
Exactly. You are getting it. Slowly. Now, care to explain why Christianity is such an intolerent religion ?

**Bruno, Giordano (1548-1600). The scientist, which, for his beliefs, the church burnt at the stake. ** . How tolerant ? 😃

The list of scientists burned alive by Church is endless …

**A minimum of 6 million jews mass murdered by Adolf Hitler … how very, very tolerant ? 😃 😃 **

Lord God, let us never hesitate or play the coward, let us never forget the duty which we have taken upon us… We are all proud that through God’s powerful aid we have become once more true Germans.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech in March 1933 [Baynes]
 
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Ching_PBUH:
They issue hate command and carried them out physically, then by the prophet and his mercenaries and now by his faithfuls.
  1. True, sincere Christians like Adolf Hitler mass murdering Jews.
  2. True, sincere Christians like George Bush & Blair mass murdering Afghanis, Iraqis & now Syrians.
  3. Ture, sincere Christians like Pat Robertson calling for assassination of leaders of sovereign nataions like Hugo Chavez.
  4. True, sincere Christians like George Bush plotting to bomb Al-Jazeera stations in Qatar … talk about freedom of expression :confused:
So far, NOT A SINGLE POST TO EXPLAIN THE INTOLERANT VERSES IN BIBLE … NOT ONE … AMAZING … 😃
 
maria_james said:
1) True, sincere Christians like Adolf Hitler mass murdering Jews.

Fun quotes by Adolf Hitler:

*Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure.

So it’s not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death. A slow death has something comforting about it. The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that’s left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light, but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.*

***The decisive falsification of Jesus’s doctrine was the work of St Paul…*For the Galilean’s object was to liberate His country from Jewish oppression. He set Himself against Jewish capitalism, and that’s why the Jews liquidated Him…The Jews, by the way, regarded Him as the son of a whore and a Roman soldier.

True, sincere Christian all right.
 
Hitler’s Table Talk

Those who deny Hitler as a Christian will invariably find the recorded table talk conversations of Hitler from 1941 to 1944 as incontrovertible evidence that he could not have been a Christian. The source usually comes from the English translation edition by Norman Cameron and R. H. Stevens, with an introduction by H.R. Trevor-Roper.

The table talk has Hitler saying such things such as: “Christianity is an invention of sick brains…,” “The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.”

But those that argue against Hitler’s Christianity fail to see that Christianity comes in many forms, two of which consist as: a belief system held by Christians, and organized religion. It was the latter, organized Christianity, that Hitler spoke against (just as many Christians do today). Not once does Hitler denounce his own Christianity nor does he speak against Jesus. On the contrary, the Table-Talk has Hitler speaking admirably about Jesus. But the problems with using Hitler’s table talk conversations as evidence for Hitler’s apostasy are manyfold:

The reliability of the source

Not one of Hitler’s table talk conversations were recorded or captured by audio, film, or broadcast on radio. According to H.R. Trevor-Roper, Hitler refused to admit any mechanical recorder into his room.

The table talk reflects thoughts that do not occur in Hitler’s other private or public conversations

If Hitler actually desired to eliminate personal Christianity, then why do we not find it in his other private dialogs and conversations? Why do we not find it in any of his public speeches or interviews?

He might have made some general comments about Christianity but there was absolutely no renouncement of Christianity …

Nowhere does Hitler denounce Jesus or his Christianity

A damaging blow to any apologist argument against Hitler’s Christianity comes from the fact that nowhere in any known source does Hitler denounce his Christianity or Jesus.
The Table-Talk does not concur with Hitler’s actions for his views for Christianity

Further injuries to the argument against Hitler’s Christianity reveals itself in Hitler’s own personal actions toward Christianity.

**If Hitler had really wished to eliminate Christianity, then why did he act to unite the Protestant and Catholic Churches in Germany?

If Hitler wanted to denounce Christianity, then why did he remain a Catholic in good standing until he died?**
 
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maria_james:
If Hitler wanted to denounce Christianity, then why did he remain a Catholic in good standing until he died?
Are you kidding me? Like the Vatican was really worried about people assuming Hitler was such a good Christian and starting to imitate his teachings or something… Why take the time to formally declare him apostate and state the obvious?
 
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maria_james:
If Hitler actually desired to eliminate personal Christianity, then why do we not find it in his other private dialogs and conversations? Why do we not find it in any of his public speeches or interviews?
I can’t believe you’re serious. Because it wouldn’t further his agenda to do so. Do you count murderous dictators among the most open and honest of people?
 
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exoflare:
Are you kidding me? Like the Vatican was really worried about people assuming Hitler was such a good Christian and starting to imitate his teachings or something… Why take the time to formally declare him apostate and state the obvious?
No, I am NOT kidding you.

Hitler’s involvement with the Church:

a) Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.

b) As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school. (On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monastery’s coat of arms bearing a swastika.)

c) Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.

d) ****As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.” **** His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest. Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

e) Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church. Matter of fact the Church felt he was JUST and “avenging for God” in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.

f) Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy. In turn they surtaxed the Catholics and gave the money to the Vatican. Hitler wrote a speech in which he talks about this alliance, this is an excerpt: “The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie.” Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party

g) Hitler worked CLOSELY with Pope Pius in converting Germanic society and supporting the church. The Church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons in turn Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education. This photo depicts Hitler with Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin. It was taken On April 20, 1939, when Orsenigo celebrated Hitler’s birthday. The celebrations were initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) and became a tradition.

**Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send “warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany with “fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.” ** (If you would like to know more about the secret dealings of Hitler and the Pope I recommend you get a book titled: Hitler’s Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)

h) Due to Hitler’s involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law. He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home. Many times Hitler addressed the church and promised that Germany would implement its teachings: “The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today.” –Adolf Hitler, on 26 June 1934, to Catholic bishops to assure them that he would take action against the new pagan propaganda “Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church.” -Adolf Hitler, reportedly to have said in Berlin in 1936 on the enmity of the Catholic Church to National Socialism.
 
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exoflare:
I can’t believe you’re serious. Because it wouldn’t further his agenda to do so. Do you count murderous dictators among the most open and honest of people?
When Adolf Hitler himself admits in his own autobiography, Mein Kampf , that he is a Christian & a true, sincere follower of Lord Jesus, then who are ***you *** to say otherwise ?
 
Okay look, nobody’s going to fall for this tripe. Your statements thus far have all been strawmen (Hitler was baptized! …wooo!!). If you seriously believe all this stuff, I only feel sorry for you and you alone… because in this case I’m not even worried about people being deceived into believing any of it.
 
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maria_james:
When Adolf Hitler himself admits in his own autobiography, Mein Kampf , that he is a Christian & a true, sincere follower of Lord Jesus, then who are ***you *** to say otherwise ?
Let me just verify your logic then. If person X claims to be a follower of a certain religion, it makes sense to evaluate that religion’s teachings based solely on the actions of person X?
 
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exoflare:
Okay look, nobody’s going to fall for this tripe. Your statements thus far have all been strawmen (Hitler was baptized! …wooo!!).
He he. Truth hurts. 😃 Can you prove he wasn’t baptized ?. Don’t make empty statements and present them as facts.
 
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maria_james:
He he. Truth hurts. 😃 Can you prove he wasn’t baptized ?. Don’t make empty statements and present them as facts.
I’m assuming you’re still serious and not joking. I’m not denying the fact that he was baptized, but just what does his being baptized prove exactly?
 
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exoflare:
Let me just verify your logic then. If person X claims to be a follower of a certain religion, it makes sense to evaluate that religion’s teachings based solely on the actions of person X?
Aah, this is what I was waiting for : 😃

Can we say the same about OBL then ?

In the case of OBL, no one has seen him make those statements claiming responsibility for ANY attacks. All what we have are some videos mysteriously appearing in some foreign nations. Certainly we have No authentic autobiography of OBL …

Whereas in the case of Hitler, we have the man’s own autobiography and speeches confirming his faith in Lord Jesus and Christianity.
 
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maria_james:
Aah, this is what I was waiting for : 😃

Can we say the same about OBL then ?

In the case of OBL, no one has seen him make those statements claiming responsibility for ANY attacks. All what we have are some videos mysteriously appearing in some foreign nations. Certainly we have No authentic autobiography of OBL …

Whereas in the case of Hitler, we have the man’s own autobiography and speeches confirming his faith in Lord Jesus and Christianity.
Okay, so answer my question.
 
Ok maria james, answer the question originally asked by exoflare; “If person X claims to be a follower of a certain religion, it makes sense to evaluate that religion’s teachings based solely on the actions of person X?” I have read many, many times on this forum how we should never judge Islam by the acts of certain Muslims. Are you saying the same standard does not apply to all faiths? Hitler claims he was Christian so Christianity is evil, but poor misunderstood Muslim homicide bombers are victims of poor interpretation of their faith?

George
 
**If you say OBL is killing non-Muslims based on Qur’anic teachings, then I just showed you how Hitler was killing Jews, justifying his atrocities using tons of intolerant verses from Holy Bible **

Play the game fair.
 
maria_james said:
**If you say OBL is killing non-Muslims based on Qur’anic teachings, then I just showed you how Hitler was killing Jews, justifying his atrocities using tons of intolerant verses from Holy Bible **

Play the game fair.

LOL point out where I said anything on here about OBL…

Now, what part of “answer the question” do you not understand?
 
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