Does Islam make sense?

[tonyfish58]

Maybe you should just read something? The life of the prophet, maybe?

When you have no counter arguments, you just make a blanket statement?

Nice try.

I am usually calm on these matters, but as people continue to post bigoted comments in the guise of True Faith, then sometimes I blanket statement so they may be encouraged to research further.

Have you read the Koran?

Have you looked into the History of the times Muhammad gave His Mission?

Have you looked at the Life of Muhammad and to what is attributed to Him as a prophet?

If you have then you would know my blanket statement was all that was required to inform the poster that they too should undertake some research and not just use popular rejection thoughts that have no basis in fact and is not the opinion of the Church one belongs to.

God bless all and may Justice in thought prevail - Regards Tony

 

[Ontheway]

I am usually calm on these matters, but as people continue to post bigoted comments in the guise of True Faith, then sometimes I blanket statement so they may be encouraged to research further.

Have you read the Koran?

Have you looked into the History of the times Muhammad gave His Mission?

Have you looked at the Life of Muhammad and to what is attributed to Him as a prophet?

If you have then you would know my blanket statement was all that was required to inform the poster that they too should undertake some research and not just use popular rejection thoughts that have no basis in fact and is not the opinion of the Church one belongs to.

God bless all and may Justice in thought prevail - Regards Tony

Yes I have. And you are still using the same old technique of making broad statements based on nothing more than your wishful thinking. You deny obvious, documented statement regarding Mohammad and Islam and you accuse everyone else of being uncharitable and doing what you yourself practice here all the time.

I think that the best way for us to practice our charity is to just ignore your statements here.

 

[tonyfish58]

Yes I have. And you are still using the same old technique of making broad statements based on nothing more than your wishful thinking. You deny obvious, documented statement regarding Mohammad and Islam and you accuse everyone else of being uncharitable and doing what you yourself practice here all the time.

I think that the best way for us to practice our charity is to just ignore your statements here.

Please do

Just a note! Even if it is only wishful thinking, it has more basis in the Love of Christ and for mankind than the other Christian given statement had

That may be worth thinking about

Regards Tony

 

[openmind77]

1. It seems that Muhammad’s coming was unnecessary, he introduced nothing new, he only confirmed the judeo-Christian ethics and some of their thinking, like the end of times,…
   2)He was never prophesized before. The messiah was heavily prophesized, every jew agreed there was to be a messiah, while muslims look desperately for only one verse in the Bible that mentions Muhammad. And he is called the greatest of all prophets, the one that was according to him prophesized in the Gospels and the Torah. Plus no jew or Christian ever thought there was to be someone like Muhammad like they did for the messiah.
   3)The first 40 years of his life were not special, he was born, he married, lived and ordinary life, unlike the earlier prophets who lived ‘specially’ from their birth to their death.
   4)He waged wars on other people and conquered people instead of spreading the faith with peace.

It is true that Muhammad did not introduce anything new - but he did bring a fairly structured and clean religion to tribes of illiterate and primitive people of the Arabian peninsula. You could argue that God should have just waited for some Christian missionaries to bring the Gospel to these people instead of giving a new revelation to Muhammad.

However, Islam is not that different from Christianity or Judaism. The God that Muhammad preached is actually more merciful than the one that Judaism or the Church propagates. In Islam there is always a chance of being saved even after being sent to hell, if one repents one’s sins - I think that belief is a big improvement over the Church’s teachings.

 

[Estevao]

Why would I use a book written in the 7th century AD to tell me about Jesus of Nazareth? That doesn’t make a lick of sense to me. It’s funny why there aren’t more bold headlines about how the Koran makes un-historical claims about Jesus, but there’s routinely headlines about how the Gospels - all 1st century documents mind you - supposedly have some historical fact in them wrong (see that Reza Aslan book or the headlines about Pope Benedict’s 3rd volume of Jesus of Nazareth).

 

[jakasaki]

I think Islam makes perfect sense. To me it is the clarification and unfolding of the Words of Christ, the next necessary step in the Spiritual Evolution of Man in His quest for the Love of God.

Christ had cemented for all time a Personal relationship with God and showed us all how it is so. Muhammad showed us all how we can use this personal Relationship and build it into a Nation of Unity.

The natural Progression was How to move from Nation Building to be World Citizens. This as promised in the Bible was delivered by the Message of Baha’u’llah. All the Foundations for Faiths and Nations to become united have been given.

It is now up to us to implement this action, it is some task, please God may Ye achieve it.

God bless all and Regards - Tony

Well then - YOU should BE a muslim and not Ba’ha…

 

[tonyfish58]

Well then - YOU should BE a muslim and not Ba’ha…

I am Both, I am all, I Christian as well

Christs Words are not separate from all Religions, they are in complete Harmony - But one must want to look

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[Techno2000]

I am Both, I am all, I Christian as well

Christs Words are not separate from all Religions, they are in complete Harmony - But one must want to look

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[Matthew_Light]

Why are you giving us an Ahmadi web site for Aisha’s age…??

Sunni Bukhari hadiths state that Aisha was 6 when the prophet of Islam married her and she was 9 when the marriage was consummated.

Hadiths are contradictory.

The best evidence is that Aisha was older than Mary when she married Joseph. That is what makes sense based on secondary data ( for example, if you knew that my mother was pregnant with me during the first Apollo moon landing, you would have a very good guess at my age…)

Sunni Muslims are prevented because of holding Aisha up as a paragon of rectitude from admitting that she probably misled people about her age ( remember, claiming a very young age was very important for her to establish primacy among the wives of Muhammad, to help her father gain political control of the Islamic community after Muhammad’s death).

 

[Blue_tiger]

1. It seems that Muhammad’s coming was unnecessary, he introduced nothing new, he only confirmed the judeo-Christian ethics and some of their thinking, like the end of times,…

Off the top of my head, there’s the 5 pillars of Islam. There’s a lot more but in a sense there was not a need to bring in something new, it was more a case of reiterate previous commandments.

2)He was never prophesized before. The messiah was heavily prophesized, every jew agreed there was to be a messiah, while muslims look desperately for only one verse in the Bible that mentions Muhammad. And he is called the greatest of all prophets, the one that was according to him prophesized in the Gospels and the Torah. Plus no jew or Christian ever thought there was to be someone like Muhammad like they did for the messiah.

Jesus (pbuh) does not fill any Jewish prophecy and to be honest I’m not concerned if Muhammad (pbuh). Some other Muslims are but each to their own.

3)The first 40 years of his life were not special, he was born, he married, lived and ordinary life, unlike the earlier prophets who lived ‘specially’ from their birth to their death.

Maybe this is what would be the distinguishing feature of the greates prophet. Not so far fetched if you believe the son of god came to earth to be a carpenter.

4)He waged wars on other people and conquered people instead of spreading the faith with peace.

I could provide many examples where the local population actually accepted Muslim invaders as they were a lot better then the current lot. But would be futile to go into as obviously some people like to believe what they want.

 

[Matthew_Light]

Why are you giving us an Ahmadi web site for Aisha’s age…??

Sunni Bukhari hadiths state that Aisha was 6 when the prophet of Islam married her and she was 9 when the marriage was consummated.

I find my Ahmadiyyah brothers and sisters are right about many things, including of course their emphasis on love between people of different faiths, and a rejection of violence.

 

[Matthew_Light]

This discussion is about Islam and your interpretation is not common in the Islamic world. Even assuming your interpretation of history and the Hadith are correct then you still missed my point entirely. The fact is, it can now be used as an excuse based on the earliest sources of Muhammad’s life.

Yes, it is sad indeed to see people of many different faiths and beliefs using their religious interpretations as an excuse for immoral behavior!

 

[dronald]

Yes, it is sad indeed to see people of many different faiths and beliefs using their religious interpretations as an excuse for immoral behavior!

Except these aren’t really just interpretations. The words are cut and dry: “Aisha was six when married, nine when he had sex with her.”

I have a hard time interpreting that as, “Aisha was probably in her late teens because of how smart she was.”

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Remain on topic please

 

[Matthew_Light]

Except these aren’t really just interpretations. The words are cut and dry: “Aisha was six when married, nine when he had sex with her.”

I have a hard time interpreting that as, “Aisha was probably in her late teens because of how smart she was.”

Those are “sayings”. Many of the sayings contradict one another, so obviously they are not all true.

You are convicting Muhammad based on hearsay evidence from witnesses who died more than a thousand years ago. Well, actually just one witness (Aisha) who had every reason to want to be seen as young as possible when she married Muhammad, because of the importance of youth, innocence and virginity in that culture.

 

[openmind77]

Remain on topic please

I completely agree. The topic is whether Islam as a religion makes sense, not the age of any woman (there is stuff like that in the OT too).

To get back to the topic:

As far as I am concerned, Islam makes plenty of sense. It is not that different from either Christianity or Judaism - the beliefs are pretty similar without the hard to swallow things like the mystery of the Trinity, the strange concept of original sin and the harshness of eternal and final damnation.

Islam to me is basically simplified Christianity.

It is in fact an excellent religion for unsophisticated, relatively primitive people from the Arabian peninsula (at least as they were at Islam’s founding). No wonder it has over a billion followers today - they are not all fools.

 

[dronald]

Remain on topic please

Those are “sayings”. Many of the sayings contradict one another, so obviously they are not all true.

You are convicting Muhammad based on hearsay evidence from witnesses who died more than a thousand years ago. Well, actually just one witness (Aisha) who had every reason to want to be seen as young as possible when she married Muhammad, because of the importance of youth, innocence and virginity in that culture.

And thus, Islam does not make sense.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Those are “sayings”. Many of the sayings contradict one another, so obviously they are not all true.

You are convicting Muhammad based on hearsay evidence from witnesses who died more than a thousand years ago. Well, actually just one witness (Aisha) who had every reason to want to be seen as young as possible when she married Muhammad, because of the importance of youth, innocence and virginity in that culture.

Then we can know nothing of the life of Muhammad. If the accounts regaurding Aisha, which are much more numerous than some of the other things said about Muhammad, and much more consistent cannot be trusted, what can be trusted as to the life of Muhammad at all?

This is one aspect of islam that makes little sense, the muslim is supposed to imitate the prophet perfectly. But how can that be done if we have no reliable information as to his life? Historically it seems very hard to show anything about Muhammad.

 

[lifllelovepeace]

Stick to your own metaphors from your “glorious” Quran.

Let us please not attack people of other faiths with bitter sarcasm like that. You are acting as a representative of Catholicism, and I’m not sure what sort of example you are setting. Although we disagree, we can still keep a civilized tongue in a reasonable argument. Just remember that every single religious person out there, no matter of what faith, is trying to reach God, and the best thing we can do to help them reach Him is show them that Christianity is a religion of love and not, under any circumstances, of intolerance.

 

[lifllelovepeace]

I don’t believe it makes any sense for the following reason:

#1: Muhammad routinely engaged in actions that God has forbidden since the OT (Adultery being one of he favorite past-times), while also claiming that God had given him permission to do so, and being completely unrepentant about it.

#2: Islam didn’t spread peacefully, but rather through conquest, making it stand in stark contrast to Christianity, which spread through evangelization.

#3: Muhammad denied the truths of Christ (his divinity in particular) while simultaneously telling his followers that the OT and NT were legitimates books of God, which shows that he either had no understanding or knowledge of what was contained within the scriptures, or he chose to pick and chose what he wanted to believe. Either way, it does not seem likely that a servant of God would be that out of touch with God’s scriptures.

(Note: these are just my favorite reasons, and do not encompass the full… well, let’s call it oddness of Islam)

#2. Christianity did not spread peacefully, a fact that still really bothers me today. The fact that so much of the world is Christian can many times be attributed to colonization of Christian European nations. I suppose it’s possible to argue that Islam has relied more heavily on conquest than Christianity did, but we should not forget that humans are humans, and Christianity has a history of its own.

#3. I honestly don’t know much about what Muhammed said, but I would think of it this way. In Christianity, we believe that the writings of the apostles are inspired by the Holy Spirit. In Islam, they don’t believe in the Holy Spirit, so its easy to disregard it as human error, or even to interpret it symbolically - the same way we interpret “brother and sister” to be more friends than literal blood relatives, the “son of God” to a Muslim could simply mean someone who is closely connected to God - a prophet. There are Christian denominations out there that have interpreted the Bible is similarly head-scratching manners.

I’m not Muslim, but I hate all the non-Christian-faith bashing. This whole post could have been worded in a much more charitable way. Obviously Christianity has the greatest fullness of truth, but that does not make other religions “nonsensical” - just misunderstandings. And I feel like the Muhammad-bashing could be compared to the Catholic-bashing on issues like the Spanish Inquisition - if we don’t want people hurling cruel words at us, we should not do such to them.

I guess the bottom line is that we don’t need to love the Islamic faith, but we can still say what we want to say while representing Catholicism in a respectful manner.