Does it matter who is more HOLY?

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No group of people is perfectly holy. All of them have sinners.

It is a false idea to say “Look how sinful you are” or “Look how holy we are.” By and large, we are all about the same. Yes, there are some overacheivers out there on both ends, but most of us are right in the middle, trying to stay holy and repenting when we fail.

It is also bogus to say “Look at the sins of your clergy” as well as “Look at the holiness of ours.” There are holy men in the clergy and there are vile sinners as well.

One of the great misconceptions that some denominations have is saying that once you accept Jesus, you cannot sin. If you are in our church, you have accepted Jesus. Therefore, none of our church sins. Woah Nelly!

Another one is one typical of Muslims. Example: Islam bans alcohol. Many Muslim nations jump on that. Alcohol is not served there at all and is a serious crime. The Muslims in those lands do not drink, therefore they are holier than others. The inability to commit a sin does not make one holy. It makes other sins more likely.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
Catholics are probably more conscious of lacking holiness than protestants.

Our Church is Holy, we aren’t.

We don’t claim to be sanctified, we strive for sanctification.

We are still running the race.
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I think its usually a mistake to say that any group is probably more anything than another. Certainly your first statement is absent any empircal proof and is wouldn’t you say just a tad self serving?

I would claim the next three sentences are completely true for myself and would have to think that my faith community would agree.
 
Well Orangeman, It seems you have your answer. Almost to a person, the RC’s here have the OPINION that their church is entitled to being top dog of the holies while they are so gracious to recall that individuals within it might not be. It seems pharoah has “hardened their hearts.” Sometimes I think it reflects more on needing to convince themselves with all continually yelling the same refrain…plug your ears and repeat the mantra…only our Church is holy, only our church is holy.
 
This boils down to a simple case of the Tortoise and the Hare. Individually, someone running around you saying anything about being holier is the Hare, as long as you do not give in to their ignorance then you would be the tortoise.

I grew up in a mixture of two Protestant religions.

As a whole, to me the Tortoise would be the Catholic Church, and where I came from would be the Hare.

Because I go to a Catholic Church does not make me holier, just means I am seeking holiness in a holier place.
 
SpiritMeadow said:
Well Orangeman, It seems you have your answer. Almost to a person, the RC’s here have the OPINION that their church is entitled to being top dog of the holies while they are so gracious to recall that individuals within it might not be. It seems pharoah has “hardened their hearts.” Sometimes I think it reflects more on needing to convince themselves with all continually yelling the same refrain…plug your ears and repeat the mantra…only our Church is holy, only our church is holy.
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So the thread title is ‘does it matter who is more holy’.
The idea being that a person ‘chooses’ the holiest ‘church’ to attend, or failing a holy-enough church the person feels free to start their own ‘church’, and be holy.

The Catholic point is simple. And not to be confused with personal or otherwise holier-than-thou-art claims. Christ founded One Church. And the only Church you would *imagine *any christian-leaning person would wish to belong to is the Church He Himself founded. Which is all the Catholics claim to be doing. None claim to be holier than thou. They simply claim to belong to the Church He founded.

Please don’t confuse the two things. Thankyou 🙂
 
SpiritMeadow said:
Then you would be of the opinion that you are more holy than any other denomination? You make the OP’s point.
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We don’t think of ourselves as more holy, but as more submissive to God’s way.

But I suppose I shouldn’t speak for others.
 
The Church is one, holy, catholic and apostolic.

From the CCC: 813 The Church is one because of her source: “the highest exemplar and source of this mystery is the unity, in the Trinity of Persons, of one God, the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit.” The Church is one because of her founder [Christ Jesus]…restoring the unity of all in one people and one body. The Church is one because of her “soul”…the Holy Spirit, dwelling in those who believe and pervading and ruling over the entire Church.

823 "The Church…is held, as a matter of faith, to be unfailingly holy. This is because Christ, the Son of God, who with the Father and the Spirit is hailed as ‘alone holy’, loved the Church as his Bride, giving himself up for her so as to sanctify her; he joined her to himself as his body and endowed her with the gift of the Holy Spirit for the glory of God." The Church, then, is “the holy People of God.”

830 The Church is catholic in a double sense: First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. “Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church.” In her subsists the fullness of Christ’s body united with its head…
831 Secondly, the Church is catholic because she has been sent out by Christ on a mission to the whole of the human race.

857 The Church is apostolic because she is founded on the apostles…
— she was and remains built on “the foundation of the Apostles” the witnesses chosen and sent on mission by Christ himself,
— with the help of the Spirit dwelling in her, the Church keeps and hands on the teaching…she has heard from the apostles,
—She continues to be taught, sanctified and guided by the apostles until Christ’s return, through their succesors in pastoral office…
 
I think Catholics are lazier than most other Protestants. (I’m a Catholic). Protestants seem more involved with Bible studies and helping the poor and with people in thier own churches. Catholics mostly just go to Mass on Holy obligation days, go to confession once in a while, pray the rosary once in a while and donate in the little envelopes to different causes, and call it good.🙂
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
I think Catholics are lazier than most other Protestants. (I’m a Catholic). Protestants seem more involved with Bible studies and helping the poor and with people in thier own churches. Catholics mostly just go to Mass on Holy obligation days, go to confession once in a while, pray the rosary once in a while and donate in the little envelopes to different causes, and call it good.🙂
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Christine. While if I were to draw on my own personal experience, I might agree with you. My present church has probably 5 times more ministries than did any of my RC ones. But I would hesitate to draw such a broad brush. No doubt there are many many RC parishes where service is high and many Protestant ones, of all types where it is low. Across the board, there are service oriented churches and one’s not so inclined.

We all should be striving to do more, as this economic crisis hurts the poorest of us the most. Blessings.
 
Thing said:
So the thread title is ‘does it matter who is more holy’.
The idea being that a person ‘chooses’ the holiest ‘church’ to attend, or failing a holy-enough church the person feels free to start their own ‘church’, and be holy.

The Catholic point is simple. And not to be confused with personal or otherwise holier-than-thou-art claims. Christ founded One Church. And the only Church you would *imagine *any christian-leaning person would wish to belong to is the Church He Himself founded. Which is all the Catholics claim to be doing. None claim to be holier than thou. They simply claim to belong to the Church He founded.

Please don’t confuse the two things. Thankyou 🙂
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You can be sure I am not confused. How could I be with a good dozen or so of the ultra faithful orthodox RC’s chanting their “we’re the best”. It suggests they may well be trying to convince themselves. I took the OP at his word.

To suggest that any one church is holier than others is simply a slap in God’s face. I suspect that is 100% up to Him, and for ANYONE to suggest they know is prideful arrogance in my opinion.
 
kalt said:
We don’t think of ourselves as more holy, but as more submissive to God’s way.

But I suppose I shouldn’t speak for others.
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I don’t think that even the most ardent Catholic first proponents here would argue that they personally are more holy. That chutzpuh even they do not espouse. They simply allege that their church itself is more so, which is chutzpuh enough.

May I ask what you mean by “more submissive?”
 
Rocky said:
The Church is one, holy, catholic and apostolic.

From the CCC: 813 The Church is one because of her source: “the highest exemplar and source of this mystery is the unity, in the Trinity of Persons, of one God, the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit.” The Church is one because of her founder [Christ Jesus]…restoring the unity of all in one people and one body. The Church is one because of her “soul”…the Holy Spirit, dwelling in those who believe and pervading and ruling over the entire Church.

823 "The Church…is held, as a matter of faith, to be unfailingly holy. This is because Christ, the Son of God, who with the Father and the Spirit is hailed as ‘alone holy’, loved the Church as his Bride, giving himself up for her so as to sanctify her; he joined her to himself as his body and endowed her with the gift of the Holy Spirit for the glory of God." The Church, then, is “the holy People of God.”

830 The Church is catholic in a double sense: First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. “Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church.” In her subsists the fullness of Christ’s body united with its head…
831 Secondly, the Church is catholic because she has been sent out by Christ on a mission to the whole of the human race.

857 The Church is apostolic because she is founded on the apostles…
— she was and remains built on “the foundation of the Apostles” the witnesses chosen and sent on mission by Christ himself,
— with the help of the Spirit dwelling in her, the Church keeps and hands on the teaching…she has heard from the apostles,
—She continues to be taught, sanctified and guided by the apostles until Christ’s return, through their succesors in pastoral office…
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Any number of Non-RCC would claim the same attributes.
 
SpiritMeadow said:
You can be sure I am not confused. How could I be with a good dozen or so of the ultra faithful orthodox RC’s chanting their “we’re the best”. It suggests they may well be trying to convince themselves. I took the OP at his word.

To suggest that any one church is holier than others is simply a slap in God’s face. I suspect that is 100% up to Him, and for ANYONE to suggest they know is prideful arrogance in my opinion.
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To suggest that any one church is holier than others is simply a slap in God’s face.
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This same God founded One Church, breathed the Holy Spirit into it, and promised to remain with it, to guide and protect it until the end of time. You’d think people would be glad of that.
Instead we get this strange ‘slap in Gods face’, as if we were doing something wrong, as if God was wrong founding a Church.
 
SpiritMeadow said:
Any number of Non-RCC would claim the same attributes.
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All baptized persons are a part of the Body of Christ, and therefore belong in some way (whether they acknowledge it or not) to the Catholic Church. Our prayer is for all who profess Christ to be one as He and the Father are one (His prayer in John).
 
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