Does it really matter being Catholic?

[Back2Church]

Yes when one is baptized they are made a member of the Church but once they grow up and accept a heretical religion they are no longer part of the Carholic Church

Validly baptized Protestants are regarded as true Christian brothers and sisters who are in imperfect relationship with the Church. The nature of the imperfections is as varied as Protestantism itself. The idea at work here is that the faith is an incarnational thing, not just a “spiritual” (disembodied) thing—just like Jesus himself. Thus, it is possible to be out of union with the Church “bodily” (structurally, sacramentally, liturgically), yet still have a spiritual unity with the Church.

http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/what-is-the-relationship-between-the-church-and-baptized-protestants

Maybe you’ll find the apologists at catholic.com more credible than me.

I’ll look for a more comprehensive source for you (and so I can keep it on hand for future reference), but this was the first thing I came across with a quick search.

 

[Jon_S_1]

The traditional Catholic dogma is that no one outside the church can be saved, not that it’s harder but impossible. But this doesn’t mean that everyone who isn’t a visible member of the Church will be damned, but that any non-Catholics who are saved were saved because they were part of the Church and only God knew. We can not assume that non-Catholics are part of the Church because we should focus on converting all heretics, schismatics, Jews, and Pagans

Yeah I agree with this.

 

[Estevao]

The main problem with the Roman Catholic church’s lack of fellowship has to do with self-selection reinforcing whatever slight manifestation of fellowship that goes on. People just hang out with who they WANT to hang out with in Roman Catholic groups, whereas the Protestant or Orthodox or even the Mormon church have what some people ITT have called “forced” fellowship.

This is why some people even call the Mormon church a “cult”, because they actually look out for each other and, say for example, if you miss a certain fellowship or service, people will actually come calling for you. Before the 20th century, protestant or Orthodox or Mormon ways of fellowship were typically better described as a “community”, where people had obligations to each other and sometimes had to do things for each other that they didn’t want to do, instead of just going to mass, maybe talking to their old buddies, and then going home to do their own thing, ignoring everybody else, which is typical of Roman Catholic parishes.

Then again when you look at the closed-table (as opposed to the open-table fellowship that Bible scholars say that Jesus of Nazareth practiced), self-selecting sort of fellowship that goes on in Catholic circles, you can’t really be surprised at the precipitous fall in practicing Catholics since Vatican II. People just get fed up with it all.

 

[MorEphrem]

If you’re trying to get from Alaska to Florida, why would you want a car or an airplane? It’s possible to get there by walking. A car or plane can get you there much more easily, but what does that matter?

I don’t think this is a relevant analogy. It equates Catholicism as simply more efficacious or expedient. I wouldn’t say that Islam is a less efficacious religion - I would just say it’s incorrect because it rejects divine truths and therefore theological faith.

 

[floresco]

Then is it just a matter of ease? That is, it’s not impossible for a non-Catholic to get to heaven, but it’s harder, so if you want the easier way, go with the Catholic Church? I see what you’re saying, it makes sense. But it’s not a compelling case to make for conversion. And in fact, the other paths may be easier (in the sense of more efficient) in other ways, depending on the person.

It is not just a matter of ease. When we say it is not impossible for an apparent non-Catholic to be saved, we are talking about a theoretical possibility. It is less like walking to Alaska (which is something very difficult) and more like time travel (something which we have no idea how to do). It is theoretically possible for those who appear to be outside of the Church to be saved, but we do not know how it happens, how often if happens, how likely it is to happen or of any actual cases of it happening. It is not something that has bearing on our practical decisions.

Just because time travel is a theoretical possibility (assuming that it is) we do not base decisions on it. Does a person marry a spouse he is unsure about thinking that if it turns out to be a mistake he will travel back in time and do something different? Would we make investments based on information that was claimed to have been obtained through time travel? Whatever may be theoretically possible is not something we consider in our every day lives.

Similarly, the theoretical possibility of salvation of people who appear to be outside the Catholic Church does not affect our actions. It is not an excuse to ignore our call to evangelize the world. It is not a permission to look through other forms of Christianity to find one we find more fun or appealing than Catholicism. The reason that for many years Church teaching on this was expressed with the saying “no salvation outside the Church” is that, for all practical purposes, this is a good way to understand it.

 

[Jon_S_1]

The main problem with the Roman Catholic church’s lack of fellowship has to do with self-selection reinforcing whatever slight manifestation of fellowship that goes on. People just hang out with who they WANT to hang out with in Roman Catholic groups, whereas the Protestant or Orthodox or even the Mormon church have what some people ITT have called “forced” fellowship.

Please don’t think “self selection” doesn’t happen in Protestant churches. It happens all the time.

It happens whenever people gather anywhere. I don’t see it as an obstacle because there are so many opportunities to get involved there is something you can find. You may not get your first choice, lets say the choir, but there are dozens of other ways.

 

[Alizarin]

If you were on the top of a mountain and the trail to the bottom of the mountain was a rough and dangerous path, and you had a guide that could lead you safely down the path as long as you listened to his instructions, you would follow the guide wouldn’t you? Or would you be one who would rather make his own path, or just ignore paths all together and jump off the side of the mountain and just hope you make it down safely?

That’s a good analogy. Working within your analogy, I’d say that some people grow more and grow better following the road less-traveled than the road well-traveled. And, based on what the CCC and the Pope have said, no one’s barred from heaven simply for not being Catholic, so…

 

[Jon_S_1]

That’s a good analogy. Working within your analogy, I’d say that some people grow more and grow better following the road less-traveled than the road well-traveled. And, based on what the CCC and the Pope have said, no one’s barred from heaven simply for not being Catholic, so…

Actually we are all barred from heaven.

Every Single one of us.

When man fell in the garden. Heaven was closed.

That is why all the dead before Christ were not in heaven.

That is why Christ died.

That is why we must believe in him to be saved.

The idea for invincible ignorance came in relationship to unreached people groups. In fact the idea first began being discussed after the discovery of the new world in the 15th century.

At the end of the day we cannot judge people, but it is our duty to witness in our words and deeds and proclaim the truth so they can have a chance at heaven through the one way Jesus Christ.

We must throw out the life preservers and try to get them in the boat, not hope that they can keep swimming through the hurricane of life.

 

[floresco]

That’s a good analogy. Working within your analogy, I’d say that some people grow more and grow better following the road less-traveled than the road well-traveled. And, based on what the CCC and the Pope have said, no one’s barred from heaven simply for not being Catholic, so…

Catholic teaching, including what the Pope has said, does not support what you are saying here. You have misunderstood. While it is possible for people who are not Catholic through no fault of their own to attain salvation, anyone who knowingly rejects Catholicism (even if they think they will grow better on another road) is indeed barred from heaven.
We do not get to choose our path to salvation from a bunch of equally good options. There is only one way that God has revealed to us - being members of the Catholic Church.

 

[Fevronia]

That’s a good analogy. Working within your analogy, I’d say that some people grow more and grow better following the road less-traveled than the road well-traveled. And, based on what the CCC and the Pope have said, no one’s barred from heaven simply for not being Catholic, so…

I think you are basing your understanding on a misinterpretation of Catholic teaching.

One is not saved by the road less traveled. There is only one road to heaven and that is through the Catholic Church. The ones who are saved outside of her are saved because of what they possess from her i.e. Scripture, Baptism, Instruction etc. So if a Protestant were to become a very good Protestant who rejects works completely (or considers them saved in the Calvinist mode), he could very well be damned for rejecting God’s grace and committing sins with a confident that he/she is saved.

The Church teaching, including that of Vatican II says that being outside of the Church means more likely to get caught in vain reasoning, despair and the snares of the devil and perish. Not many can make it out alive. As we see in the Old Testament, those who made it out by following the law were few. At least they had the law while some today do not even have a belief in God.

So another analogy is perhaps to say that the Catholic Church is like a mother. The Church is the mother and we are the children. The world outside is a forest where the devil lurks. In our lives, we have to get through that forest to our heavenly home. If we abandon the care of our mother and wander in to the forest, we will most likely not make it out. We are more likely to miss the grace God gives us and confuse ourselves in trying to get outside the forest to our heavenly home. But if we are with the mother, then we can be assured that she will take us home if we stay close to her and obey her. In the same way, the mother reaches out to the children lost in the forest and asks them to become part of her family so that she can lead them to heaven.

 

[bzkoss236]

That’s a good analogy. Working within your analogy, I’d say that some people grow more and grow better following the road less-traveled than the road well-traveled. And, based on what the CCC and the Pope have said, no one’s barred from heaven simply for not being Catholic, so…

The road less traveled may effect how your life on earth is, but if you are trying to get to heaven, the safest route is what you want to take. If you needed to get somewhere, would you want to take the more reliable route, or would you take “the road less traveled” and risk not getting there?

 

[TK421]

Yeah, being Catholic matters. If I didn’t join the Catholic Church, I feel confident that I would go to Hell.

Which isn’t to say the same is true for everybody, but the CC is the pinnacle of truth in this world and the keyholder to Heaven. Even if we ignore salvation, being Catholic matters because it is the most fulfilling earthly path that anybody could ever follow. We preach the gospel that people’s burdens will be lifted, not that they will be added on.

 

[Jon_S_1]

The road less traveled may effect how your life on earth is, but if you are trying to get to heaven, the safest route is what you want to take. If you needed to get somewhere, would you want to take the more reliable route, or would you take “the road less traveled” and risk not getting there?

Since we are speaking if roads let us remember what JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF SAID ABOUT THE ROAD TO SALVATION

Matthew 7:13-14

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[bzkoss236]

Since we are speaking if roads let us remember what JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF SAID ABOUT THE ROAD TO SALVATION

Matthew 7:13-14

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Amen, brother.

 

[Fevronia]

Since we are speaking if roads let us remember what JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF SAID ABOUT THE ROAD TO SALVATION

Matthew 7:13-14

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[Starrsmother]

The recent comment by Pope Francis regarding atheists got me thinking.

Does it really matter being Catholic?

We believe that one does not have to be Catholic to go to heaven.

I watch Duck Dynasty and love how they believe in God. How they lead presumed Godly lives. Will they be left out because they are not Catholic? I doubt it.

My grandmother and my mother-in-law are very devout Baptists…(well, my grandmother died earlier this year.). Never miss Church. Are they going to be left out of heaven because they are not Catholics? Apparently not.

So why be Catholic? Because it is the true Church? What does that matter if not required for salvation?

Because of the Eucharist? What does that matter if not required for salvation?

because it is the Church Jesus started? What does that matter if not required for salvation?

If I believe in God, follow the commandments, lead as Godly a life as possible, does it matter what Church I belong to?

I love being Catholic, but I miss the camaraderie that other Churches offer. Face it, the Catholic Church is not big on fellowship.

So why be Catholic? It has to be for more than just tradition. Doesn’t it?

Let me just dare to say the following. My own dear in-laws–now dead–belonged to the First Christian Church all their lives. They were good moral people who showed charity, lived as man and wife their entire lives, didn’t drink or swear and were just generally good people. Are they in heaven or hell? The short answer is how would I know? God doesn’t seem to feel that I need the gift of revelation. HOWEVER, my mom-in-law once told me way back when something that really began to ring true as I got a little older. She and I were discussing the Catholic faith vs protestant religions and I’m pretty sure that I was somewhat arrogant back then. She told me"We’re all trying to get to the same place—but sometimes we are on different roads to this place."

As Catholics, we are blessed with the sacraments, the church itself and if we do our best, we have an easier and more direct path to heaven than many of our protestant brothers and sisters. Yes, indeed, protestants can get to heaven–maybe even at least some atheists as Pope Francis said–but their path is longer, rougher and harder to navigate than ours. Jesus said, that “to whom much is given, much will be expected.” To KNOW of the Catholic faith, to believe in it, to practice it for a time and then to turn away from it because one admires a TV family who doesn’t know or believe the Catholic faith and who have never been raised in our faith–thus lack knowledge of it-- is a sin.

If only Catholics could reach heaven, there would be entire countries, entire tribes in Africa, entire continents of people who would have been created by God for the express purpose of watching them burn in hell. Do you believe that a loving and merciful God would do such a thing? Neither do I!

BUT, your question is about yourself. You are a Catholic. You have been given so much by God that others don’t have—and may never have in this life. How do you think Jesus might judge you if you deliberately turn away from it for what looks like a prettier or easier or more “people friendly” path? There ya go!

 

[Fevronia]

If only Catholics could reach heaven, there would be entire countries, entire tribes in Africa, entire continents of people who would have been created by God for the express purpose of watching them burn in hell. Do you believe that a loving and merciful God would do such a thing? Neither do I!

I always find this question fascinating because it feels like the answer presumes that God thinks like us. What reason do we have to think that way?

Logically speaking, the idea that many may be damned is defended from a theological and philosophical stand point throughout Catholic tradition, including by St. Thomas Aquinas.

newadvent.org/summa/1023.htm#article7

So I do not see on what basis we can hope that not many are damned. We cannot presume anything of that sort but act to do all we can for others.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I always find this question fascinating because it feels like the answer presumes that God thinks like us. What reason do we have to think that way?

Logically speaking, the idea that many may be damned is defended from a theological and philosophical stand point throughout Catholic tradition, including by St. Thomas Aquinas.

newadvent.org/summa/1023.htm#article7

So I do not see on what basis we can hope that not many are damned. We cannot presume anything of that sort but act to do all we can for others.

I believe it was man that chose to be separated from God when we first sinned.

I believe God was heartbroken that his creation chose themselves and not him.

I believe this is why God DIED and SUFFERED for us.

For everyone,

So that we may believe in his sacrificial work and put faith in his atoning sacrifice.

I too hope that unreached people groups, who follow and seek God, can have salvation.

However, let us not rely on such hope and ignore the call to evangelization that Christ commissioned us with in Matt 25.

You must remember that God flooded the earth, destroyed Sodom, Jericho, and many other people who disobeyed and engaged in their own selfish and wickedness.

We can not begin to understand God’s reasoning, but we can rely on what we know. And that is the sure way to salvation.

Accepting God’s grace, believing in Christ, putting faith in him beginning with baptism and carried through our Christian lives.

All roads do not lead to the top of the mountain. There is one road and few find it.

Help everyone around you find that road.

 

[Starrsmother]

I always find this question fascinating because it feels like the answer presumes that God thinks like us. What reason do we have to think that way?

Logically speaking, the idea that many may be damned is defended from a theological and philosophical stand point throughout Catholic tradition, including by St. Thomas Aquinas.

newadvent.org/summa/1023.htm#article7

So I do not see on what basis we can hope that not many are damned. We cannot presume anything of that sort but act to do all we can for others.

I can only repeat that this is my own personal hope and belief–though I sort of think that even Pope Francis may agree based on things he has said. The rules Jesus gave when asked what was required for someone to get to heaven were that one must love God with their whole mind and heart–and their neighbor as themselves. I don’t remember an addendum that He said “And oh yes, you must be Catholic cause everyone else is going to hell in a hand basket.” I certainly agree though that we must share our faith with as many as possible, hoping that they too will grow to believe. I suspect that God, in His mercy and wisdom, may have some plan for those people who have never been exposed to the Catholic faith–and in some cases maybe not even to Christianity. I don’t believe that God creates out of malice—and what could be more malicious than if for instance, a child were born into one of the closed prison camps in North Korea, never introduced to any form of Christianity, and when that child finally died, God were to stand there waiting and smiling as He tossed them into hell? The beauty is, however, that non of us mortals know God’s mind—so we should pray for everyone–Catholics, protestants, buddhists, and yes–even atheists! You’d agree with that, right?

 

[Mark1124]

I don’t think this is a relevant analogy. It equates Catholicism as simply more efficacious or expedient. I wouldn’t say that Islam is a less efficacious religion - I would just say it’s incorrect because it rejects divine truths and therefore theological faith.

No, the analogy is not perfect, but that’s why it’s called an analogy. There are many reasons to be Catholic, but since the OP seems focused on salvation, I focused my response on salvation. And Islam, or any other religion besides Catholicism (except perhaps Eastern Orthodoxy), is certainly less efficacious in getting people to heaven. We have the Sacraments to bring us closer to God and forgive our sins, so we’ve got the easiest possible way to heaven.