Does it really matter

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You need to get the Lamb Supper if you read or get the audio by Scott Hahn. He is a Catholic apologist that use to be a Protestant minister. He tells about the early Catholic Church and how st. Augustine and others had trouble with the emperors at the time because they thought they were doing cannibalism. But really it was And unbloody sacrifice of our Lord.

They also used to celebrate mass in the catacombs that’s where we get the tradition for the candles at mass. It was dark in the catacombs so they would bring candles to celebrate mass. There is a lot of tradition rich tradition in our church.
 
First, you are preaching every man for himself, which was never God’s intention. Since we preach One One One, we should really preach One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, if we don’t we are being detrimental to our One Faith according to external observations.

Second you are preaching lowest common denominator, which is never really a good place to reside. It requires me to unlearn things which I find valuable to my Faith.

Thirdly I identify myself as a Catholic, I also identify myself as a Christian. If you failed to identify as a Christian when you were Catholic you have probably been swept over with words which you have come to treasure as important to your identity, and failed to grasp who you were in the first place.

Fourthly this 70s 80s 90s theology you are preaching is actually starting to produce a self-destruct childish ignorance among your support group, and this next generation is slowly starting to rebel against it recognizing that it has its shortcomings, and they actually desire depth to their Faith, heritage, and identity in a family, a Church.
 
Say you were right for one moment and we are all being torn over the petty details. Why wouldn’t you just come over to the Catholic side? After all, it’s just a few things you need to incorporate into your belief system, right?

Secondly, how can a Protestant ever really know he’s saved, even by his own standards? Say a reasonably nice guy decides today that Jesus is his personal Lord and saviour. He confesses his sins. Then the next day, he decides to commit murder. Does he need to confess that sin? If so, why? Didn’t he just decide yesterday that he’s saved? And what if he dies ten minutes after committing murder? I think there has to be some way for him to pay for his debt, ergo Purgatory.

And what if his sin wasn’t nearly so great? What if a man chooses to follow Christ, and figures this can best be accomplished while sinning sexually in a same sex relationship? Many Protestant Church members believe this. Yet how, if they studied the Bible could they possibly conclude that it’s okay? As a fallen-away Catholic, you may not see just how varied the beliefs are of Protestants. They really run the gamut. So how can they be professing the truth when they all differ?

I would like to offer you something, an invitation to come back to the fold. Please return to the Catholic faith, and leave the other stuff behind. The fullness of truth is in the Catholic faith.
 
I would also add further that the evangelical non-denomination entities which have somehow decided to usurp the term “Christian” for their own personal identity at the exclusion of others are still reeling under the blending of Christian philosophy with Hippy philosophy. The Hippy Jesus is an unfortunate phenomenon which replants Jesus Christ from 1st Century Palestine into 20th Century Napa Valley.

He becomes a fictional Jesus Christ I cannot identify with, since I never lived in that generation to experience it’s youthful zeal for that time.
 
Her’s THE deal:slightly_smiling_face:

WHO’s in CHARGE? You or GOD and the responsibility can’t be shared,

Have YOU ever heard God ask anyone for THEIR opinions? NO!

Truth can only be singular per defined issue.

There is just One TRUE God

Who desired, founded, guides and guards just His One True Church

With His and it;s One True set of Faith beliefs

So any and all decisions to ignore these boundaries is VERY risky.

Amen
Patrick
 
Jesus seems pretty detail-oriented to me. Jesus said, “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:18; see Luke 16:17) He said, “But not a hair of your head will perish.” He said, “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faith; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.” (Matthew 23:23) To many, an iota and a dot and a hair and mint and dill and cummin are “petty details” yet Jesus cared about them enough to mention them.

Consider Jesus’ two-step cure of the blind man and how, though the blind man himself may have been quite happy with just having some of his sight restored and being able to see his fellow men though they looked to him like trees, Jesus was not content until the man “saw everything clearly”:
And some people brought to [Jesus] a blind man, and begged him to touch him. And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the village; and when he had spit on his eyes and laid his hands upon him, he asked him, “Do you see anything?” And he looked up and said, “I see men; but they look like trees, walking.” Then again he laid his hands upon his eyes; and he looked intently and was restored, and saw everything clearly. (Mark 8:22-25)
The apostles Peter and John celebrated their common faith in Jesus Christ with the Samaritans who had received the word of God and been baptized in the name of Jesus but they were still eager that what they saw as lacking in their formation be corrected and “came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit … [and] laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 8:15,17)

Priscilla and Aquila celebrated their common faith in Jesus Christ with Apollos but they were still eager that what they saw as lacking in his formation be corrected and “took him and expounded to him the way of God more accurately.” (Acts 18:26)

Paul celebrated their common faith in Jesus Christ with the disciples he found in Ephesus, who had only received John’s baptism, but he was still eager that what he saw as lacking in their formation be corrected and baptized them in the name of the Lord Jesus and laid his hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. (See Acts 19:1-6)

If the New Testament writers were content just celebrating their common faith in Jesus Christ with their Christian readers, with their shared understanding of “the first principles of God’s word” (Hebrews 5:12) and “the elementary doctrines of Christ” (6:1) and not also eager that what they saw as lacking in their formation be corrected, then most of the New Testament epistles would never have been written. They wrote so that their Christian readers would all attain “the unity of the faith” (Ephesians 4:13), even in what some might call the “petty details.”
 
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Why would God reveal something if it didn’t matter? Not believing in Purgatory matters because it limits your charity and neglects a whole class of souls you could love in a concrete beneficial way, but now don’t. It also can diminish one’s appreciation of justice and the glories of Heaven.

“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; except the stuff you decide doesn’t matter.”
#ThingsJesusNeverSaid
 
Just to add, the idea that everyone should be a member of the Catholic Church for their salvation is straight out of the Bible:

We must be baptized (John 3:3) into the one Body in the one Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13), partake of the one bread as one Body (1 Cor. 10:17), and profess the One Lord, one faith, one Baptism (Eph 4:4-5). Like Noah’s ark, you have to be on board to be saved–as the Bible says, like Noah’s ark in the flood, Baptism now saves (1 Peter 3:20-21), and as I just said, we are baptized into that one Body–so the ark and the Body have the same significance in this regard.

In addition, to have fellowship or communion with Christ in His Body, you must have fellowship with those who have fellowship with Him (1 John 1:3). We are forbidden, therefore, from schisms and dissensions and must be united in belief (1 Cor. 1:10).

Furthermore, while Christ is the head of the Church, He has also willed that the Church be led by men (Acts 20:28). He put St. Peter in charge of His flock (John 21:15-17)–therefore, to be a member of Christ’s flock is to be a member of the flock tended by Peter and his successors.

Our sins are to be forgiven through the ministry of the Church (John 20:21-22) and the faith is to be taught by those with succession from the Apostles–those who have been sent (Rom 10:15). Going out without being sent, on the other hand, is harmful to souls (Acts 15:24).

So to sum up, we should not be members of those communities that went out without being sent from the Church Christ founded, do not have their sins forgiven through the Apostolic ministers, do not partake of the one Bread, are not of one belief with the Church they left, do not acknowledge their authorized shepherds, etc.
 
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As Someone who is no longer identifying as a Catholic but am a Christian I find myself asking does it matter?
I think that some things matter, while others are – in a certain sense – less critical, because there are other issues which are of concern…
My understanding is that we all fall short of the Glory of God, we all sin, we all need Christ, we get to Heaven through accepting Christ and following him and confessing when we screw up (like we all do).
But, the question comes down to: whom did Christ give you, for the forgiveness of sins through him? (John 20:22 – he gave you priests as the means through which you receive His forgiveness!)
Does it REALLY matter that you believe in pergutory and I don’t?
No, not per se – after all, Catholics don’t believe that only believers need purgation prior to admission to heaven. So, your belief in it doesn’t affect that it’s a reality (in much the same way as, should I suddenly believe the moon doesn’t exist, that doesn’t mean it will fail to rise in the skies tonight. 😉 )
when I say I’m saved, should I worry how it offends you?
No. I think you should worry about why the Church Christ founded 2000 years ago believes one thing, and the denominations men founded 500 years ago believe other things. That, for me, would be scary and worthy of consideration!
Does it REALLY matter that you pray to saints and I do not
It doesn’t matter for the sake of salvation; one is not required to ask the intercession of any human person in order to be saved.
the basis of the belief is identical , from what I understand. No-one gets to Heaven except through Christ. Period. Confess your sins. Period. And try to live a life that displays Christ. Period.
The problem is… that’s not everything that Christ said! You’re putting periods where there should be ampersands and commas! There’s more to the story, but you’re presenting it as if that’s all there is!
Am I missing something? Why did everything get so he said , she said… do you think Christ really care?
I think Christ cares that you have faith in Him, and you express it in thoughts and actions in the way He asked. That, then, would involve a sacramental system (“be baptized”… “whose sins you forgive”… “do this in memory of me”… “receive the Holy Spirit”). That would involve worship in the way that He instituted it. That would involve being part of the Church He founded. No?
 
Your post struck such a chord with me, I thank you! :heavy_heart_exclamation:
 
Why do you no longer identify as Catholic, but remain a Christian?

Obviously something mattered to you, to leave your cradle (?) faith.
 
Yes it matters. Jesus said:
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Easy religion is a lie. You may find salvation without many Catholic teachings and practices. But why would you make it harder when salvation, even for those with all the tools, is so difficult? Following Jesus means following His Church. It means following all of His teachings. Jesus left us tools to help in our salvation. It would be pride to think you don’t need all those tools. Really if you think you don’t need some instrument of salvation then you need it doubly.
 
Say you were right for one moment and we are all being torn over the petty details. Why wouldn’t you just come over to the Catholic side? After all, it’s just a few things you need to incorporate into your belief system, right?

Secondly, how can a Protestant ever really know he’s saved, even by his own standards? Say a reasonably nice guy decides today that Jesus is his personal Lord and saviour. He confesses his sins. Then the next day, he decides to commit murder. Does he need to confess that sin? If so, why? Didn’t he just decide yesterday that he’s saved? And what if he dies ten minutes after committing murder? I think there has to be some way for him to pay for his debt, ergo Purgatory.

And what if his sin wasn’t nearly so great? What if a man chooses to follow Christ, and figures this can best be accomplished while sinning sexually in a same sex relationship? Many Protestant Church members believe this. Yet how, if they studied the Bible could they possibly conclude that it’s okay? As a fallen-away Catholic, you may not see just how varied the beliefs are of Protestants. They really run the gamut. So how can they be professing the truth when they all differ?

I would like to offer you something, an invitation to come back to the fold. Please return to the Catholic faith, and leave the other stuff behind. The fullness of truth is in the Catholic faith.
HOW CAN THEY BE PROFESSING THE TRUTH WHEN THEY ALL DIFFER?

Using this as an argument against non-Catholic faith is an indication of having a beam in your own eye.
 
@Mack26

I’m a former Pentecostal and both Free Will & Southern Baptist with a sprinkle of my wife’s upbringing of the Church of Christ in the mix. I literally spent hundreds of hours ( over 300 ) in 2017 seeking the truth related to Catholicism. I didn’t begin my serious journey until after I turned 50 in November of 2016. I’m entering the Catholic Church in 10 weeks. It matters!

During my first 50 years, I did a lot of what many people do, especially protestants, which is some stay at home Christianity of I don’t need to be in church. I’m a Christian!!! My father who is about to be 75 stays at home watching Jimmy Swaggart ministries and reading his Bible. Is he living his Christian life as he understands it? I believe so. He has no interest in Catholicism.

CCC 847 “This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.” 848 “Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.” … However, I have discovered the truth of Catholicism and it is my fault if I reject it which is rejecting the Church Christ founded.

I believe the fullness of truth is in the Catholic Church. There are things commanded direct from CHRIST for us to do that are not found in fullness anywhere else like The Eucharist ( Holy Communion ) which is symbolic in the vast majority of protestant churches.

There is a lot of confusion and arguments among Christians especially from non-Catholics toward Catholics. You might want to read “Upon This Rock” by Steve Ray and “The Apostasy That Wasn’t” by Rod Bennett and “The Fathers Know Best” by Jimmy Aikin. But there is much more beyond that.

Take if from someone who has experienced stay at home Christianity and Protestantism for the first 50 years of his life. It matters.

“Once Saved Always Saved” - Some believe that some don’t - Does it matter what I believe and how I share the Gospel based on that? Yes, it matters.

“Baptism and Holy Communion ( The Eucharist )” are both symbolic in the vast majority of Protestant churches.Does it matter what I believe and how I share the Gospel based on that? Yes, it matters.

“My personal private interpretation of scripture” vs. “An authority entrusted to protect scripture ( Catholic Church )” Does it matter what I believe and how I share the Gospel based on that? Yes, it matters.

I could go on and on.

Hope that I’ve said something that helps.
 
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Two things that contradict one another can’t both be true. For instance, either same-sex sexual relationships are okay with God or they aren’t okay with God. Some Protestant religions actively promote these relationships as okay, and some as not okay. The fact that they differ means there has to be a higher authority. In this case, that higher authority is the Catholic Church and more to the point, God who leads the Catholic Church.

If I have a beam in my eye, it’s because I’m a sinner, not because I’m Catholic.
 
Churches that rely on Scripture alone for their authority inevitably sway from the true faith in one way or another. There’s simply no way to know the faith fully or with certainty by going solely on Scriptural interpretation-since that ends up being opinion in so many cases. Even highly credentialed scholars in theological and biblical fields of study routinely disagree with each other on the meaning of Scriptural passages, on important points of the faith.

The only way we can know God’s will for certain as it was revealed at the beginning of Christianity is to hear from the Church that was there, the Church He established for that purpose and who’s had a continuous living history traceable to the origins of our faith. Why would we want less, anything other? Why would we want uncertainty? Otherwise the JWs have as much claim to having it right as would any other Sola Scriptura offspring, Protestantism in general IOW.
 
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… sweeter than honey … sacred and precious … treasure that is the deposit of faith …
Direct hits to my heart ❤️.

I always said to my little ones that the church is a huge treasure chest that Jesus gave us. We can never exhaust the pearls and gems within.
 
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