Does it?

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

I don’t think that God needs the evil to create certain good. It is always to do certain good from the scratch.

God has a wholesome ambition that we should have wholesome ambition. To live in a risky world is not a comfortable thought but - I pinched myself, and I’m still here!

I’m interested that you used (in post 1) the word “or” to contrast between meaning and truth.

A huge chunk of meaning which the churches are overly shy about is how Christ intends grace to abound through gifts of power to upbuild our brothers and sisters in upbuilding each other. How else will they be helped to survive? How else will the alleged “truth” be found to turn out true after all?

Why would outsiders want to join the Church if alleged “truth” isn’t shown to have meaning? If we can’t help our own, outsiders have no reason to bite the bait.

In II Tim 3:5 Paul criticises those who “have the form of religion but not its power”.

 

[Mammoths]

God has a wholesome ambition that we should have wholesome ambition. To live in a risky world is not a comfortable thought but - I pinched myself, and I’m still here!

I’m interested that you used (in post 1) the word “or” to contrast between meaning and truth.

A huge chunk of meaning which the churches are overly shy about is how Christ intends grace to abound through gifts of power to upbuild our brothers and sisters in upbuilding each other. How else will they be helped to survive? How else will the alleged “truth” be found to turn out true after all?

Why would outsiders want to join the Church if alleged “truth” isn’t shown to have meaning? If we can’t help our own, outsiders have no reason to bite the bait.

In II Tim 3:5 Paul criticises those who “have the form of religion but not its power”.

You make an excellent and important point. Paraphrased from first Corinthians 12-13 "Earnestly desire the best gifts, especially that you may prophesy. … yet I show you a better way: though I speak the languages of men and angels but have not love I am a resounding gong or a claiming cymbal, if I have all knowledge and understand all mysteries but have not love I am nothing. Love is patient, kind, not rude, not envious, not selfish, not narcissistic not skeptical or hopeless of others intentions. If I give all I have to the poor and give my body to be burned I gain nothing without love… trying to act like a good person like a Christian or having a major ministry without love is like a foggy mirror compared to true goodness. Love is what makes the picture complete. these three are everlasting: faith, hope and love. Love is supreme. "

Divine love expressed in whatever the church does is the meaning that holds power. We proclaim the good news out of the generosity of love so that those who are outside come in and share with us in our joy. Our joy is found in knowing Jesus. Gifts and service expressed out of love are effective opportunities to proclaim the gospel. Preaching for sport is a barrier to faith.

 

[STT]

I’m interested that you used (in post 1) the word “or” to contrast between meaning and truth.

Yes, they are different.

A huge chunk of meaning which the churches are overly shy about is how Christ intends grace to abound through gifts of power to upbuild our brothers and sisters in upbuilding each other. How else will they be helped to survive? How else will the alleged “truth” be found to turn out true after all?

Do you mean that the meaning make the truth true?

Why would outsiders want to join the Church if alleged “truth” isn’t shown to have meaning? If we can’t help our own, outsiders have no reason to bite the bait.

In II Tim 3:5 Paul criticises those who “have the form of religion but not its power”.

I don’t think if any human being in this word grasp meaning. Have you met anyone?

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Yes, they are different.

Yes, but vitally interconnected!

Do you mean that the meaning make the truth true?

Yes!

I don’t think if any human being in this word grasp meaning. Have you met anyone?

Not many, because sadly the problem Paul criticises is so prevalent.

 

[STT]

Yes, but vitally interconnected!

I don’t understand how they are interconnected.

Yes!

How? How do you define meaning?

Not many, because sadly the problem Paul criticises is so prevalent.

What was the problem?

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

I don’t understand how they are interconnected.

…

How? How do you define meaning?

As you used the two words, do you think there is a difference?

What was the problem?

If people want to be bossed around just to get a false feeling of “belonging” there is any number of ideologies one can plump for if one doesn’t think “Catholic” fashionable enough.

What Paul was referring to is something he found he needed - something Jesus shared with the other Apostles - that doesn’t make one tread on others to get the illusion of surviving, something that allows us to get on a growth curve amid the harsh realities of life. The Church’s best kept secret is Holy Spirit powered living and the second best kept, the indwelling Jesus.

What Paul calls “power” in this context is the only kind of worship in fellowship where truth and meaning coincide.

The worship of God is to not stunt the growth of the fellow adopted widows and orphans in the Father’s profitable family firm (my paraphrase of both Testaments).

Whatever questions He might ask outsiders, He is definitely going to ask insiders about how they traded the talents with each other. That’s why He wants insiders to study the Feeding of the 5,000 and the 4,000.

Outsiders won’t think there is anything worth joining (coming inside into) if they don’t see insiders really looking after other insiders (not flattering, pampering or patronising).

What the Christian life consists of is a relationship - whether there is an obvious intellectual component to it or not, and however dramatic or undramatic the details.