Does Jesus care about church affiliation...

[estesbob]

What about those Catholic Churches that are not Latin? Is the Roman Catholic Church somehow in possession of truth not accessible to the other 22 particular Churches in communion with Rome? Or are you saying that all of the other Catholic Churches are not in fact particular Churches but simply parts of the Roman Catholic Church. In either case, your statement is problematic-and not just from my perspective as an Eastern Catholic, but according to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

ALL Catholic Church’s in full communion with Rome have the fullness of truth.He is flat out wrong in his assertion.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I understand that there are many different branches of Christianity… but it’s my understanding that while they all have their differences they do all believe in the same Jesus and all believe Jesus is the Son of God.

Not really. That may seem on the surface but even St. Paul in his Epistles has warned people not to believe in a Jesus other than the Jesus they preach. The problem is some denomination has this romanticized version of Jesus that it takes away really who Jesus is and what He exactly teaches. Its a very philosophical viewpoint, but I agree. Many times people have a higher or lower opinion of another person which completely distorts the image of that person. We are not to do that with Christ lest we start believeing in a different Jesus. And when we do that, we are led down to the wrong path.

 

[ConstantineTG]

What about those Catholic Churches that are not Latin? Is the Roman Catholic Church somehow in possession of truth not accessible to the other 22 particular Churches in communion with Rome? Or are you saying that all of the other Catholic Churches are not in fact particular Churches but simply parts of the Roman Catholic Church. In either case, your statement is problematic-and not just from my perspective as an Eastern Catholic, but according to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

ALL Catholic Church’s in full communion with Rome have the fullness of truth.He is flat out wrong in his assertion.

Maybe he meant to lump all Eastern Christian Churches as Orthodox. Many Eastern Catholics likes to think of themselves as “Orthodox in communion with Rome” If you want to be very techinical about it, the Eastern is different from the Oriental and from the Assyrian Church of the East. Of course in the Catholic Church we just lump them all together as Eastern Catholic Churches but in the Orthodox, there’s actually 3 different communions among them and none of these communions are in communion with one another.

 

[PJM]

=joe370;7521136]In the world of Christianity, with so many separate and segregated churches, with there own unique magisters interpreting scripture, and teaching, as they are moved by the holy spirit, do you think that Jesus is indifferent as to which church a Christian decides to establish an allegiance with and deference to…?

***No Jesus is NOT indiffferent.

God desired and fulfilled His Divin Will with the One Church He actually founded/ Matt. 16:15-19.

The New Testamant hs over 100 references to the One Church.

Here are a couple of very clear examples:***

**John 10:16 **And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

Acts.20:28 “Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church [SINGULAR] of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son. “

**Eph. 2:19-20 “**So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular[/COLOR]] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, ***Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, ***in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. “

Eph. 4: 4 -8“There is one body Only One Church] and one Spirit, [Only One set of beliefs[/COLOR]] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, Only One God] ONLY one faith, Only One set of doctrine and dogma] one baptism, By water in the Trinity] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. "

God Bless,
Pat

 

[joe370]

UniversalistGuy;7522086]I don’t think Jesus is as concerned about church membership as He is about people repenting of their sins and loving one another. It’s clear that God allows and in some cases arranges for people to be in different churches so obviously He has no problem reaching out to people of good will whatever church they are in and whatever doctrines they believe are true.

When you say: “…whatever church they are in and whatever doctrines they believe are true” - are you suggesting that doctrinal truth matters naught to Jesus Christ?

So it’s your contention that Jesus intentionally arranged for people to belong to different segregated churches founded by mere man, as opposed to the one church founded by God, on Pentecost, in Jerusalem, circa AD 33, or did I miss something in the translation?

When Jesus said: you are Peter (kepha) - and on this rock (kepha) - I will build my church, He was actually referring to the Catholic church, the Eastern Orthodox church and all of the Protestant churches that we see in the world today?

 

[joe370]

Rightlydivide;7522315]I really cannot answer what He thinks.

How about what Jesus says in scripture? Jesus established His church on Pentecost, in Jerusalem, circa AD 33, prayed that His church would be one just as He and His Father are one, and promised that the Holy Spirit would be with His church, forever guiding His church to all truth.

How many churches in the world today, were established by Jesus, on Pentecost, in Jerusalem, circa AD 33?

How can oneness and unity be accomplished in a sola scriptura world where anyone and everyone can interpret the bible as they see fit, establish their own church and proceed to teach their own brand of Christianity, basing their teachings on their interpretation of their one and only authority - the bible?

Could you please be specific?

I believe that the 70 percent of the world going to hell that are not Christians and our failure to evangelize them and spend more time arguing with one another is far far more important. Its one of the reasons when soul winning that I am not interested in sheep stealing but those who do not know Christ or are not saved.

That’s all well and good, but irrelevant to the OP. I was hoping to stay focused on the OP.

 

[joe370]

God wants us to know him, to establish communion with him. We get to know Jesus through the Bible, through the church. Seeing as there is only one truth about God, God would want us to find that truth and therefore find Him. I’m not sure if I’m wording this properly, but what I’m trying to say is: Christ wants us to follow him, to be Christians. He founded the Church so that we can find Him, so He most likely wants us to attend a church that is correct in it’s teachings. There can only be one correct teaching and we must find it.

Everything you have said seems absolutely reasonable and biblical.

 

[joe370]

I think that the seriousness of burning in hell warrants evangelism efforts for people who are not Christians. If I turn out to be wrong, bettere safe than sorry.
Eternity is a long time as the saying goes…

We all agree with you but it has nothing to do with the OP. Start a thread and discuss it there.

 

[joe370]

We are called to preach the gospel. Those who do not believe are damned Mark 16.
Failure to do so sends people to hell. Relying only on actions to convey the gospel is cowardly in my estimation because people are actually ashamed. Too scared to witness in real life. Now I prefer to not answer too much more because my view is in the minority on this forum.
Understand I am only answering a direct question.
Thanks

Yes, but not the one I asked, which of course is the original post. Let’s stick with that one if we can?

 

[joe370]

I understand that there are many different branches of Christianity… but it’s my understanding that while they all have their differences they do all believe in the same Jesus and all believe Jesus is the Son of God.

So your answer to the OP is…???

 

[Rightlydivide]

Yes, but not the one I asked, which of course is the original post. Let’s stick with that one if we can?

Joe, you do realize that you are calling me out for answering questions that you believe are off topic but not the Catholics that asked them?
Which is your right…but rather biased I say.

 

[adelore]

Yes I think Jesus cares about church affilation. Without a doubt he’s very happy for those of us who are in the Catholic Church, either by way of Craddle, Returning, or New Catholic. After all it is the Church Jesus founded through Peter.

I also believe Jesus loves everyone who is a Christain, even if their Church is not Catholic. I also believe Jesus wants us to love our Seperated Brothern with much understanding and to pray for them, as we do everyone.

If we take a good look at Scripture, Jesus was always “hanging out” with who? The sinners, the lost sheep.

We as Catholics live and have the full truth. Thus we need to follow our Lords footsteps, the best we can by reaching out to those who may not have the fullness we do. As we have seen time and time again, Jesus was always reaching out to the “lost, the needy, and yes the worst kind of sinners.” He did it with love and kindness, he didn’t force it on anyone.

I had been away from the Catholic Church for over 20 years, I’ve been back awhile now, Jesus through His love brought me home.

During my stay away, I learned much about other religions. I take to heart what I learned…but the one thing I can say, is this… I do know how much they are missing, what they have never experienced, and how I should have patience, love and kindness, for them. (True I fall short a lot of times in the patience dept. then I have to pray about it.) But just that experience alone gave me a “slight” glimmer in what our Lord must have delt with. Hopefully this posting made sense.

 

[joe370]

Joe, you do realize that you are calling me out for answering questions that you believe are off topic but not the Catholics that asked them?
Which is your right…but rather biased I say.

RD, I started this thread and I was hoping you could simply respond to the OP, but, if you would rather respond to off-topic questions, that’s cool.

 

[joe370]

Adelore, very well said; thanks for your contribution to the thread.

Yes I think Jesus cares about church affilation. Without a doubt he’s very happy for those of us who are in the Catholic Church, either by way of Craddle, Returning, or New Catholic. After all it is the Church Jesus founded through Peter.

I also believe Jesus loves everyone who is a Christain, even if their Church is not Catholic. I also believe Jesus wants us to love our Seperated Brothern with much understanding and to pray for them, as we do everyone.

If we take a good look at Scripture, Jesus was always “hanging out” with who? The sinners, the lost sheep.

We as Catholics live and have the full truth. Thus we need to follow our Lords footsteps, the best we can by reaching out to those who may not have the fullness we do. As we have seen time and time again, Jesus was always reaching out to the “lost, the needy, and yes the worst kind of sinners.” He did it with love and kindness, he didn’t force it on anyone.

I had been away from the Catholic Church for over 20 years, I’ve been back awhile now, Jesus through His love brought me home.

During my stay away, I learned much about other religions. I take to heart what I learned…but the one thing I can say, is this… I do know how much they are missing, what they have never experienced, and how I should have patience, love and kindness, for them. (True I fall short a lot of times in the patience dept. then I have to pray about it.) But just that experience alone gave me a “slight” glimmer in what our Lord must have delt with. Hopefully this posting made sense.

 

[Rightlydivide]

RD, I started this thread and I was hoping you could simply respond to the OP, but, if you would rather respond to off-topic questions, that’s cool.

Post 7 answered it.
To repeat…again.
I cannot say. I think that other things ARE more important to him based upon scripture.

 

[joe370]

Post 7 answered it.
To repeat…again.
I cannot say. I think that other things ARE more important to him based upon scripture.

So the fact that Jesus said, in scripture, **I **will build my church, (as opposed to someone else building His church, such as me or Calvin or Luther for example) - is not as important as other things, also based upon scripture? Okay.

 

[Rightlydivide]

So the fact that Jesus said, in scripture, **I **will build my church, (as opposed to someone else building His church, such as me or Calvin or Luther for example) - is not as important as other things, also based upon scripture? Okay.

In my estimation, you just changed your question Joe.
However I will answer this.
Christ did build His church.
The original question asked about affiliation specifically.
So…since even your church believes HIS church is both the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox, in other words they are also part of His church,e ven though they have different affiliations, it seems to me even Catholics hold some other things (doctrinal similiarity) to be more important than mere affilation…

 

[joe370]

In my estimation, you just changed your question Joe.
However I will answer this.
Christ did build His church.
The original question asked about affiliation specifically.
So…since even your church believes HIS church is both the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox, in other words they are also part of His church,e ven though they have different affiliations, it seems to me even Catholics hold some other things (doctrinal similiarity) to be more important than mere affilation…

Perhaps you are right about other things being more important than church affiliation but they are irrelevant to the OP, and, in my estimation I was merely adapting to your comments. I believe that the EOC and the easter/oriental offshoots of the EOC, are schismatic churches of the one church founded by Jesus, just as the EOC believes that the CC and the protestants offshoots of the CC are schismatic churches of the one church founded by Jesus.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[JeanMichel]

In the world of Christianity, with so many separate and segregated churches, with there own unique magisters interpreting scripture, and teaching, as they are moved by the holy spirit, do you think that Jesus is indifferent as to which church a Christian decides to establish an allegiance with and deference to…?

Joe, this is such a good question and can be the fount of countless hours of discussion. Fundamentally, I believe that God is very concerned about our membership in his Church. However, does that mean that all of those people who are not presently members in danger of damnation? Fundamentally, I would answer no.

God works in wondrous ways and I believe that he is active in the life of every person on the earth that seeks a relationship with God. I believe that some people are doing the Lord’s work exactly where they are at present. I also believe that this life is a journey and each of us will be judged by the way we live our lives. Eventually we each will come into a perfect union as the Body of Christ within his Church, but until that time we each work within the parameters we have been given for knowing truth.

I have felt for some time that knowing truth is important, but living truth is even more important. Is it better for us to be lukewarm Catholics or “hot” Anglicans? I think God wants us fully engaged in truth, finding it and living it.

I often think about what made Jesus so disgusted with the Pharisees of old? They each knew the law, but were incapable of living the law. They were dried sepulchers devoid of Spirit, love, and charity. The law alone, in my humble opinion, does not save us. Our hearts must yearn to be one with God; we must hunger after righteousness.

When we are hungry for the Spirit, we become one in unity with God and his Church. I for one, will admire those who live the truth they know and seek to share the fullness of the Gospel with them. I then will have faith that God will take care of their souls as well as he has with mine.

Thank you again for a great question.

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by joe370
In the world of Christianity, with so many separate and segregated churches, with there own unique magisters interpreting scripture, and teaching, as they are moved by the holy spirit, do you think that Jesus is indifferent as to which church a Christian decides to establish an allegiance with and deference to…? /QUOTE]
**
THE REPLY**

No Christ is not indifferent because He founded a visible, teaching Church, and His Church is suppose to offer the Holy Sacrifice of His Body and Blood for the forgiveness of sins. Christ paid the debt for sin but they are not forgiven unless we do our duty to God. Christ founded His Church, and He called men to be a part of that Church and to spread the good news and despence the sacraments He instituted in order to confer grace onto His people and to continue His work. Full recompense for sins forgiven and the sufferings endured by Christ for our salvation can only be made by the true Church and her Sacraments. While Christians who didnt know any better can be saved by being part of the Church by desire they however will still have to make up the debt they owe for their past sins in purgatory. Many souls are not saved because they lack the grace needed to continue living a holy life and they continue on their wide road to perdition.

No my friend God is very very sad to see so many people lost and staying outside of His Catholic Church. Especially since He founded it for their sanctification and salvation.

---

***My dear friends in Christ;

While appreciating one’s right to there own views; as I understand the OPQ, what is being asked is our view of Jesus’ take on more than the only Church He Founded; and the Bible recounts a different view thn that shared in this post:***

**John 10:16 **“And I [Jesus Speaking] have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.”

Eph. 2:19-20 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. “

Eph. 4: 4 -8 “There is one body [Only One Church] and one Spirit, [Only One set of beliefs] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, [Only One God] ONLY one faith, [Only One set of doctrine and dogma] one baptism, By water in the Trinity] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. "

Firends the NT has over 100 references to Only One Church… Clearly that REMAINS God’s preference nd choice.

God Bless,
Pat