Does Jesus care how socially proficient you are?

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Estevao

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Apparently being socially proficient is very important to men and women, even devout Catholic men and women. As proof of this (beyond my own experiences at church and what I have read here about this subject in off-hand remarks) I was reading some old threads, and came across this (I suppose you could google it if you wanted to know who said it, but who said it isn’t really important IMO):
The men I encounter in our Church are socially inept, awkward, unable to joke around etc. I have come to believe that these folks are not willing to put themselves “out there” and make friendships. It is incredibly frustrating. I know we are not alone in noticing this. Most of my devout female friends have said the same sort of things about the devout men they meet.
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So I gather from this that men who see themselves as socially proficient and women, including “devout” Catholic women, experience a great deal of “frustration” when it comes to devout Catholic men, by which I take to mean Catholic men who fulfill bare Catholic obligations (which already puts these Catholic men in the extreme minority of nominal Catholics).

I was just wondering do you think Jesus has “frustration” when it comes to putatively “awkward” or “creepy” Catholic men? Apparently these men can cause a good deal of “frustration” at local parishes, and apparently they are very common, and the church is the body of Christ, so maybe so. But I was also thinking that these “devout men” are probably living in a state of grace in the Catholic Church, and thus are assured of heaven if they should die in this state at that moment. So I would assume that they are very beloved of Jesus, despite their putative social awkwardness, lack of humor, being so “churchy”, etc… But maybe not being sufficiently socially proficient is a sin?

Also, would you agree with this poster’s views on the average Catholic man in your parish?
 
Estevao said:
Apparently being socially proficient is very important to men and women, even devout Catholic men and women. As proof of this (beyond my own experiences at church and what I have read here about this subject in off-hand remarks) I was reading some old threads, and came across this (I suppose you could google it if you wanted to know who said it, but who said it isn’t really important IMO):

So I gather from this that men who see themselves as socially proficient and women, including “devout” Catholic women, experience a great deal of “frustration” when it comes to devout Catholic men, by which I take to mean Catholic men who fulfill bare Catholic obligations (which already puts these Catholic men in the extreme minority of nominal Catholics).

I was just wondering do you think Jesus has “frustration” when it comes to putatively “awkward” or “creepy” Catholic men? Apparently these men can cause a good deal of “frustration” at local parishes, and apparently they are very common, and the church is the body of Christ, so maybe so. But I was also thinking that these “devout men” are probably living in a state of grace in the Catholic Church, and thus are assured of heaven if they should die in this state at that moment. So I would assume that they are very beloved of Jesus, despite their putative social awkwardness, lack of humor, being so “churchy”, etc… But maybe not being sufficiently socially proficient is a sin?

Also, would you agree with this poster’s views on the average Catholic man in your parish?
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What is the definition of " socially inept" and “devout men and women”? The Lord loves a humble, silent soul. A social butterfly, male or female, pleases those around them, but is that pleasing to The Lord?
 
KrazyKat said:
What is the definition of " socially inept" and “devout men and women”? The Lord loves a humble, silent soul. A social butterfly, male or female, pleases those around them, but is that pleasing to The Lord?
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That sums it up… I think the Lord cares more about being kind to everyone, rather than being “socially proficient.”
 
Estevao said:
Apparently being socially proficient is very important to men and women, even devout Catholic men and women. As proof of this (beyond my own experiences at church and what I have read here about this subject in off-hand remarks) I was reading some old threads, and came across this (I suppose you could google it if you wanted to know who said it, but who said it isn’t really important IMO):

So I gather from this that men who see themselves as socially proficient and women, including “devout” Catholic women, experience a great deal of “frustration” when it comes to devout Catholic men, by which I take to mean Catholic men who fulfill bare Catholic obligations (which already puts these Catholic men in the extreme minority of nominal Catholics).

I was just wondering do you think Jesus has “frustration” when it comes to putatively “awkward” or “creepy” Catholic men? Apparently these men can cause a good deal of “frustration” at local parishes, and apparently they are very common, and the church is the body of Christ, so maybe so. But I was also thinking that these “devout men” are probably living in a state of grace in the Catholic Church, and thus are assured of heaven if they should die in this state at that moment. So I would assume that they are very beloved of Jesus, despite their putative social awkwardness, lack of humor, being so “churchy”, etc… But maybe not being sufficiently socially proficient is a sin?

Also, would you agree with this poster’s views on the average Catholic man in your parish?
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Here’s a verse of Scripture worth meditating on:

Romans 12: 18 “If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.” (NRSV-Catholic Edition)

Yes, Jesus DOES care! We are to be the Light of the World, the City set on a hill for all to see. If people find us “creepy,” that’s going to be difficult!

There are some things that we cannot help. Although modern medicine can correct or soften many physical traits, there are still traits that we cannot change; e.g., big feet. (And sometimes, we can’t afford to fix certain traits!)

But there are many things that DO depend on us and that we CAN work on and improve. Personality traits and social skills can be worked on by us with the goal of being more “at peace” others.

Men and women can learn to make small talk, reach out to others, listen, speak less “directly”, be less abrasive, not interrupt, not sound “condescending,” avoid “lecturing,”
etc.

Also, there are many things about our physical appearance that we can improve. Wearing deodorant, washing our hair, wearing scents that are not too strong (if we wear scents), making sure that our makeup is appropriate for the situation (females only!), making sure our clothing is clean (even if it is “poor”), making sure that our clothing covers the parts of our body that should be covered (e.g., the “crack”), working on developing a pleasant facial expression (many of us have gotten into the habit of perpetually frowning or even scowling), moderating our voice so that it sounds pleasant, not harsh or whining, etc.

St. Paul TOLD us to work to be more “at peace” with others. Trying to improve ourselves so that others will be comfortable with us isn’t worldly or vain. It’s kindness and charity!

I’m STILL working on myself! I have a lot of unpleasant traits left over from the “hippie” era, when everyone was “doing their own thing.” I still tend to dress a little too shabbily, interrupt others, and be bombastic in social settings. I’m working on it! I want to be more “at peace” with others and a good ambassador for Jesus and Holy Mother Church!
 
Estevao said:
Apparently being socially proficient is very important to men and women, even devout Catholic men and women. As proof of this (beyond my own experiences at church and what I have read here about this subject in off-hand remarks) I was reading some old threads, and came across this (I suppose you could google it if you wanted to know who said it, but who said it isn’t really important IMO):

So I gather from this that men who see themselves as socially proficient and women, including “devout” Catholic women, experience a great deal of “frustration” when it comes to devout Catholic men, by which I take to mean Catholic men who fulfill bare Catholic obligations (which already puts these Catholic men in the extreme minority of nominal Catholics).

I was just wondering do you think Jesus has “frustration” when it comes to putatively “awkward” or “creepy” Catholic men? Apparently these men can cause a good deal of “frustration” at local parishes, and apparently they are very common, and the church is the body of Christ, so maybe so. But I was also thinking that these “devout men” are probably living in a state of grace in the Catholic Church, and thus are assured of heaven if they should die in this state at that moment. So I would assume that they are very beloved of Jesus, despite their putative social awkwardness, lack of humor, being so “churchy”, etc… But maybe not being sufficiently socially proficient is a sin?

Also, would you agree with this poster’s views on the average Catholic man in your parish?
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Being socially proficient is definitely better than being awkward, although it’s not the most important thing in life. Naturally Jesus will love us no matter what our skillset is, but this is a very important skill that everyone ought to work on. I don’t think that Jesus is necessarily “frustrated” with our lack of social grace, but I do think he’d be very happy if we worked on bettering ourselves for the good of his kingdom. People will be much more willing to look to us as the light of the world if they feel comfortable and safe around us, and we ought to be concerned about that.
 
I think God made each of us with our own unique character traits to give Him greater glory.

While there are some who are very gregarious and seem to draw people to themselves, they may be called to a more hands-on approach to evangelization.

While others are more introverted or less “socially proficient”, they may be called to more a contemplative life – a life of prayer.

We need religious missionaries throughout the world and we also need the religious contemplatives.

We are called to use the gifts God has given us for His greater glory.

As my mother always said, “What you are is God’s gift to you. What you make of yourself is your gift to God.”

Peace.

+JMJ+
 
It sounds like the paragraph you quoted is from someone talking about why they aren’t interested in men at church. There’s nothing wrong with that. The fact of the matter is that no matter how wonderful someone may be, if you aren’t attracted to them, you just aren’t attracted. While there really isn’t anything wrong with being socially awkward, most people find it sexually unappealing.
 
I’m not one to chastise people for their “social ineptness.” We instead should pray for them and realize they are that way for a reason, most likely due to abuses suffered at the hands of others and through no fault of their own. If they find solace in Mass then good on them.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
It sounds like the paragraph you quoted is from someone talking about why they aren’t interested in men at church. There’s nothing wrong with that. The fact of the matter is that no matter how wonderful someone may be, if you aren’t attracted to them, you just aren’t attracted. While there really isn’t anything wrong with being socially awkward, most people find it sexually unappealing.
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👍
 
Estevao said:
Apparently being socially proficient is very important to men and women, even devout Catholic men and women.
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Of course it is important, however, in the paragraph you quoted, I think the poster was being very judgemental. Lots of devout women dream of meeting a man at church. Yet, when they don’t, they just judge the men as being ‘creepy’ instead of realizing these are children of God and perhaps not the man God intends for them to marry.

Honestly, I think your whole post implied secular standards of being cool and hip instead of valuing others the way God wants us to.
 
Thanks for your perspectives guys! <3
BlueEyedLady said:
It sounds like the paragraph you quoted is from someone talking about why they aren’t interested in men at church. There’s nothing wrong with that. The fact of the matter is that no matter how wonderful someone may be, if you aren’t attracted to them, you just aren’t attracted. While there really isn’t anything wrong with being socially awkward, most people find it sexually unappealing.
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Whoops, I could have given more context. It was a man complaining about his inability to find some bros to hang out with at church. All the “churchy” types were annoying him I guess.

I can see how one could get your take though. But I think it’s already pretty obvious that most women these days are not interested in churchy men, even catholic women, who seem to either mostly marry some lukewarm protestant or agnostic/atheist type. Of course one shouldn’t become catholic for attention from the opposite sex so that doesn’t really matter.
Anglewannabe said:
Of course it is important, however, in the paragraph you quoted, I think the poster was being very judgemental. Lots of devout women dream of meeting a man at church. Yet, when they don’t, they just judge the men as being ‘creepy’ instead of realizing these are children of God and perhaps not the man God intends for them to marry.

Honestly, I think your whole post implied secular standards of being cool and hip instead of valuing others the way God wants us to.
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Yea your last sentence is really key. Especially in Catholic churches which are noted for being rather stiff and unwelcoming compared to protestant ecclesial communities which usually happily take all comers.
 
Estevao said:

“Yea your last sentence is really key. Especially in Catholic churches which are noted for being rather stiff and unwelcoming compared to protestant ecclesial communities which usually happily take all comers.”

I think it’s actually the reverse. Here’s why.

It is easier to put together a social event that really hums when everybody has something in common. So, as a matter of fact, those Protestant churches that really buzz are, as a rule, much more ethnically and socioeconomically homogeneous than Catholic churches. Think of the Protestant focus on having a separate group for every niche group. At my mom’s Assemblies of God church, there was, for example, a separate Sunday school class for women with non-Christian husbands. In contrast, Catholic churches in the US are generally as personable as a Greyhound Bus Station, but at the same time, just like the Greyhound Station, they are very ethnically and socioeconomically diverse. There’s actual sociological research on this, and if I had a few minutes, I would dig it up for you. (Interestingly, I have noticed that Catholic ethnic parishes (Maronite and Polish) really seem to buzz after Mass, but that is an example of the exception proving the rule–the less diverse, the warmer socially.)

As to social proficiency and WWJD, think of the parable of the talents. Are we using our talents properly, or are we burying them in the ground? There is also, as somebody mentioned upthread, some overlap (but not a complete overlap) between social proficiency and kindness. A socially proficient person who is not kind tends to be a user. A kind person who is socially inept will be less able to help people effectively. However, if you have a kind person who is also socially proficient, wow! They can do anything. It’s like having super powers.

Also, please don’t think that social proficiency is a completely gendered thing. There are many women who have to learn social skills relatively late in life (I’m in my late 30s, and I think I’ve finally got it). But it’s taken YEARS of practice, and I still make mistakes. It’s like music–you have to practice, and even then it’s still possible to hit a sour note.
 
Jesus picked some very ordinary men out of the crowds to be His Apostles. Fishermen, farmers, a tax collector, etc. I’d bet they weren’t all socially graceful men, some of them might have been that era’s version of our geeks and nerds, shy introverts, even. But they rose and shone in His Presence, then they went forth with the fire of God in them and preached the Good News. There’s a reason the Catholic Church is partly based on Apostolic Tradition, it’s those men and the ones who followed, Paul chief among them. There’s a message in that for all of us.

Them who think those guys they see in churches are klutzes incapable of loving friendships and marriages, well that’s definitely not what Jesus would say about them. For men who see these guys, perhaps you could lead them in friendship. For women who see these guys, perhaps you shouldn’t dismiss them so quickly as marriage prospects for yourself or your single friends.
 
Estevao said:
Whoops, I could have given more context. It was a man complaining about his inability to find some bros to hang out with at church. All the “churchy” types were annoying him I guess.

.
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If this was a guy trying to find guy friends, I can’t help but think that his attitude (ie looking down his nose at his brothers in Christ) is what drove the other guys away and he never got to see their good side. A good catholic guys attitude would be more charitable, something along the lines ‘These guys are devout Catholics like me, unfortunately outside of church we don’t have much in common so we probably won’t become best buddies’
 
When someone chooses to not to respond to us I wonder why we think the problem is them? :confused:
 
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