Does Jesuu's sacrifice preclude re-building the Temple?

[Tobias2]

I got into an interesting talk with Mormon missionaries- both of whom had spent time as missionaries in Israel.

They had visitied the Wailing Wall and the site of the destroyed Temple and said, though they support the state of Israel (the LDS church apparently spends a ton of money inIisrael helping humanitarian projects) the Temple won’t/can’t be rebuilt.

They said Jesus’s sacrifice ended forever the animal sacrifices which took place only in the Temple. That that dipensation is over and God will not allow the Temple to be re-built. As in animal sacrifice will not come back.

They mentioned there had been an attempt to rebuild the Temple after it’s destruction in 70AD but a massive earthquake destroyed the new Temple. Apparently Mormons interpret this as an act of God.

I had never heard that before and found it interesting.

I know Jeuus’s sacrifice replaces the imperfect animal sacrifice of the Jews. Does Scripture say anywhere that animal sacrifice ends with the perfect sacrifice of Jesus?

It was a fascinating talk and a point I’d never heard before but I can’t find a verse which says the re-establishment of animal sacrifice is precluded with the coming of Christ.

 

[runningdude]

Well, I’ve never heard of any attempt to rebuild the Temple per se, however the Muslims did build a Mosque on the Temple Mount that is still standing today. During the crusades, it was briefly converted into a church dedicated to Mary.

The Temple back in Jewish times, contained the Holy of Holies, the true presence of God on earth. When Christ died on the cross, the veil of the temple, a heavy curtain dividing the Holy of Holies from the main room, was torn in two as the true presence escaped. The Temple became a hollow shell of its former self, and a few decades later was destroyed.

Every mass, when we consecrate the new true presence, the Eucharist, we greet the risen Christ with the a declaration that He is the “Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world”. He is the unblemished lamb, sacrificed once and for all.

 

[svid2]

It seems to me there was an attempt by one of the Roman emperors - one of the crazies, like Caligula - to rebuild, so he could put his own statue in it, I think.

Work repeatedly stopped because of bizzare accidents and earthquakes. There is a story that they dug and found the entrance to hell!!

Anyway, the emperor died and work never resumed.

So the story goes.

A rebuilt temple would cause WWIII.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

A Julian the Apostate attempted to rebuild the temple to compete with Catholicism, but God had other plans.
Catholic Encyclopedia:

Julian advanced in triumph to Constantinople. Hitherto outwardly a Christian, he now let himself be portrayed as under the protection of Zeus, who in his opinion possessed with Helius the same undivided creative power. He commanded all towns to reopen the temples for pagan worship, restored animal sacrifices, and assumed the duties of a Pontifex Maximus. The Christians were united in fighting their enemy. Julian issued a decree that all titles to lands, rights and immunities bestowed since the reign of Constantine upon the Galileans, as he contemptuously called the Christians, were abrogated, and that the moneys granted to the Church from the revenues of the State must be repaid. He forbade the appointment of Christians as teachers of rhetoric and grammar. Still, he copied the organization of the Christian Church; he created, for example, a form of hierarchy, the head of which was the imperial Pontifex Maximus, and urged pagans to imitate such Christian virtues as charity and mercy.** Yet Julian’s changes failed to bring him any appreciable success. His attempt to defy the Gospel and rebuild the temple at Jerusalem was brought to nothing by fire and earthquake.**

 

[Tobias2]

A Julian the Apostate attempted to rebuild the temple to compete with Catholicism, but God had other plans.

That was it - they refererred to Julian trying to rebuild the Temple but God sending an earthquake as the Temple can’t be rebuilt since animal sacrifices are over. And that is the only place where Jewish animal sacrifices took place.

I know Jesus’s sacrifice supercedes and perfects the animal sacrifices of the Jews but I can’t find anything in Scripture which says Jesus’s sacrifice ends for all time the animal sacrifices of the Jews. If it did them the Mormom argument about the Temple would make sense.

It’s an intriguing twist I have never heard befoe.

 

[Tobias2]

It seems to me there was an attempt by one of the Roman emperors - one of the crazies, like Caligula - to rebuild, so he could put his own statue in it, I think.

Work repeatedly stopped because of bizzare accidents and earthquakes. There is a story that they dug and found the entrance to hell!!

Anyway, the emperor died and work never resumed.

So the story goes.

A rebuilt temple would cause WWIII.

Yes it would cause a war.

But the Mormons’ point was that God will not allow the Temple to be re-built because animal sacrifice ended with the new dispensation of Christ. I am trying to find a verse that supports that claim.

 

[Sonseeahray]

Well, I’ve never heard of any attempt to rebuild the Temple per se, however the Muslims did build a Mosque on the Temple Mount that is still standing today. During the crusades, it was briefly converted into a church dedicated to Mary.

The first attempt to rebuild the Temple rested on the success of the false Messiah - Bar Kochba - who failed in his mission. The second attempt was in the time of Constantine who had approved its rebuild. He was later convinced by the Christians that this was not a good idea. Constantine had the ears cut off of all the workers. Maimed persons were not allowed to work on the Temple - so the work stopped. The third was in the time of Julian the Apostate - the work was destroyed by subterranean fires as I recall. The forth attempt was in our day. The Jews have been prevented from rebuilding it again because the “Temple Mount” is under the control of the Muslims. The reality is that what they are now calling the Temple Mount is in reality the Fortress Antonia because the real Temple and Temple Mount was totally destroyed - just like Jesus prophesied. The real temple Mount was a high tower 450 feet high (pinnacle) with 150 feet underground which went down to bedrock to support the extremely heavy wall - a total of 600 feet. The highest tower of the Fortress Antonia was only 75 feet high. Eleazar of Masada fame lamented after 70AD, that the only structure to remain in the city was the camp of the Romans - which was the Fortress Antonia. The 10th legion was stationed in the fortress for over 200 years after this.

The irony of all of this is if the Jews had not believed the lie that the Fortress is the Temple Mount - they could start building the New Temple tomorrow. All they would have to do is move a highway and some other things – which is not a problem.

Based on the past record I would say that the Temple will never be rebuilt because God is only interested in herding the Jews to the foot of the cross. Unlike popular eschatology, God is not supporting the Old Covenant anymore - just like Microsoft is no longer supporting Windows 98.

The Temple back in Jewish times, contained the Holy of Holies, the true presence of God on earth. When Christ died on the cross, the veil of the temple, a heavy curtain dividing the Holy of Holies from the main room, was torn in two as the true presence escaped.

The temple veil that was torn was on the entrance of the Heichel chamber - which included the Holy of Holies. This veil was very thick and was about 24’ wide X 80’ high – it took 200 Priests to hang it. When Jesus died there was a great earthquake, which destroyed the Chamber of Hewn stones - which is where the trial of Jesus was held earlier in the day. This is where the grand Sanhedrin met. Also the massive lintel failed from which the veil was hung; and it broke in two and fell down tearing the veil in two from the top to the bottom.

The veil of the Holy of Holies was a double curtain. The outer curtain was attached to the wall on the right side and was tied back on the left side. Then a cubit away was the inner second curtain, which was attached to the wall on the left side and was tied back on the right. The High Priest would enter the first curtain on the left side and then sidestep between the two curtains until he reached the right side and then would enter the Holy of Holies on the right side of the room. He would then side step to the center with the second curtain at his back. He would then minister before the Eben Shetiyah stone as the Ark of the Covenant was no longer in the Temple since the Babylonian invasion. The Shetiyah stone was the stone upon which the Ark rested.

…a heavy curtain dividing the Holy of Holies from the main room, was torn in two as the true presence escaped. The Temple became a hollow shell of its former self, and a few decades later was destroyed.

The presence of God (Shekinah glory) left the Temple visibly, according to Josephus, just before Passover of 66AD. The heavenly host left the Temple on Passover of 66AD. This was the restrainer that Paul spoke of. Now God was no longer restraining the fomenting rage of war between the Jews and the Romans. It was only a short time later that Eleazar Ben Ananius the governor of the Temple stopped the daily sacrifices for the welfare of the Roman Emperor and Rome. This in itself was an act of war. Everything went downhill from this point on until the end. The Shekinah Glory moved to the top of the Mount of Olives and remained there until the destruction of the city in 70AD. Jesus was crucified on top of the Mount of Olives.

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

The temple will never be rebuilt. Judaism is a dead faith. There is a Mosque where the temple should be. That Mosque is there to stay. Animal sacrifice was ended with the New Covenant–Christ is to be accepted as the unblemished lamb–the only sacrifice required as a sin offering to God. The end of animal sacrifice is prophesied in the OT and explained throughout the NT. Prophecy has already been fulfilled with the destruction of the old temple and the establishment of the new covenant Church. To build a new temple would be meaningless because the old covenant has passed onto the new. It would just be an ordinary empty building with no presence of the Lord since Jews do not recognize their own King, the Christ.

 

[grandfather]

Jesus was crucified on top of the Mount of Olives.

Not according to the Bible and the ancient and modern commentators.

 

[grandfather]

The temple will never be rebuilt. Judaism is a dead faith.

 

[Fidelis]

Yes it would cause a war.

But the Mormons’ point was that God will not allow the Temple to be re-built because animal sacrifice ended with the new dispensation of Christ. I am trying to find a verse that supports that claim.

The fact that animal sacrifices are a thing of the past is all through the Letter to the Hebrews. Start reading it and you’ll pick that up very quickly.

Hebrews

Jesus predicted that the Temple would be torn down and not one stone will be left upon another. He also said that he would raise it up in three days. Since the Gospel explicitly tells us that he was referring to his body as the new Temple (and Hebrews tells us the old sacrifices are obsolete), there is no need to rebuild a new Jewish Temple–ever

Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews said, “This temple has been under construction for forty-six years, and you will raise it up in three days?” But he was speaking about the temple of his body. . [John 2:19-21]

 

[steve53]

I got into an interesting talk with Mormon missionaries- both of whom had spent time as missionaries in Israel.

They had visitied the Wailing Wall and the site of the destroyed Temple and said, though they support the state of Israel (the LDS church apparently spends a ton of money inIisrael helping humanitarian projects) the Temple won’t/can’t be rebuilt.

They said Jesus’s sacrifice ended forever the animal sacrifices which took place only in the Temple. That that dipensation is over and God will not allow the Temple to be re-built. As in animal sacrifice will not come back.

They mentioned there had been an attempt to rebuild the Temple after it’s destruction in 70AD but a massive earthquake destroyed the new Temple. Apparently Mormons interpret this as an act of God.

I had never heard that before and found it interesting.

I know Jeuus’s sacrifice replaces the imperfect animal sacrifice of the Jews. Does Scripture say anywhere that animal sacrifice ends with the perfect sacrifice of Jesus?

It was a fascinating talk and a point I’d never heard before but I can’t find a verse which says the re-establishment of animal sacrifice is precluded with the coming of Christ.

Mormons!

You must have misunderstood.

Jesus was crucified in A.D. 36, but the Temple was destroyed in A.D. 70. At that time, in A.D. 70the sacrificial rituals of the Jews were outlawed, as was the hierarchy of the High Priesthood.

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

Mormons!

You must have misunderstood.

Jesus was crucified in A.D. 36, but the Temple was destroyed in A.D. 70. At that time, in A.D. 70the sacrificial rituals of the Jews were outlawed, as was the hierarchy of the High Priesthood.

33 AD, not 36 AD.

 

[Fidelis]

The fact that animal sacrifices are a thing of the past is all through the Letter to the Hebrews. Start reading it and you’ll pick that up very quickly.

Hebrews

I should have added: start at chapter 8 to get to the meat of the discussion on this.

 

[steve53]

33 AD, not 36 AD.

A.D. 36, not A.D. 33 (and this is the proper way to write A.D.- placed before the number. B.C. is written after the number, i.e. 4 B.C.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

A.D. 36, not A.D. 33 (and this is the proper way to write A.D.- placed before the number. B.C. is written after the number, i.e. 4 B.C.

He was crucified in his 33rd year, and depending on whether you go by Newton’s numbering or traditional he was born in AD 1 or 4 BC, so either he was crucified in AD 33 or 34 by traditional numbering or AD 29 or 30 by Newtonian numbering. Where do you get 36 from?

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

A.D. 36, not A.D. 33 (and this is the proper way to write A.D.- placed before the number. B.C. is written after the number, i.e. 4 B.C.

Have any evidence?

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

Sacred_Heart;8948532:

I don’t think that sentiment is shared by the Jews.

That does not mean the Jews will not try to rebuild their temple.

Regardless of what the Jews think Christ declares that the Old has passed away into the New; therefore Judaism is a dead faith. Its not recognized by God anymore. God has declared that the law is abolished by Christ who is the law written upon our hearts. Judaism is a dead faith and the Jews don’t know it because they do not accept their King, Our Lord.

Whether, the Jews rebuild their temple or not it will still be empty and vain because the King of Israel is not present within. Jesus prophesied the destruction of the temple and rebuilt it in his body through his resurrection. If the Jews rebuild the temple it will not be the house of God because scripture says that it is our own bodies that are the temple of the Holy Spirit; as we are all one body within Christ. If the Jews rebuild the temple, like I said, it will be meaningless and empty of the presence of God.

 

[grandfather]

grandfather;8948597:

Regardless of what the Jews think Christ declares that the Old has passed away into the New; therefore Judaism is a dead faith. Its not recognized by God anymore. God has declared that the law is abolished by Christ who is the law written upon our hearts. Judaism is a dead faith and the Jews don’t know it because they do not accept their King, Our Lord.

Whether, the Jews rebuild their temple or not it will still be empty and vain because the King of Israel is not present within. Jesus prophesied the destruction of the temple and rebuilt it in his body through his resurrection. If the Jews rebuild the temple it will not be the house of God because scripture says that it is our own bodies that are the temple of the Holy Spirit; as we are all one body within Christ. If the Jews rebuild the temple, like I said, it will be meaningless and empty of the presence of God.

Everything you say is true. The temple sacrifice was a foreshadowing of the new and everlasting covenant. It is done with.

The same thing you say about the matter is also true of other religions and some Christian denominations. Some think they have the Eucharist, but deny there is an ordained priesthood, or the need for apostolic succession to have validity in their doctrines or practice. Most deny the authority of the Church to teach altogether, claiming the Bible is the sole authority, nevertheless they make up doctrine and preach it.

The point is that even though various groups are off track to one degree or another, God still calls them to himself and honors their sincerity. I have a friend who is a Protestant woman. She recently adopted a brother and sister from Africa, 4 and 6. THe four year old has severe medical issues. Right after bringing them here and paying enormous costs to give them a home she was diagnosed with cancer. The oncologist said she had no chance. They put her on some therapy to try to exend her life some, but that was all medical science could offer. They hoped to slow the growth and put off the inevitable. She wondered why God would allow her to die, because there would be no one to care for the children. She was ll they had. The birth mother died of TB in front of the little ones and now their adopted mother was going to die. Many people prayed for her, Protestant and Catholic. She went for a report on whether the treatment was working. The doctor could only say what he was seeing was impossible. The cancer not only vanished without explanation, but it vanished suddenly. The only explanation is a miracle.

The woman’s religion is mixed up. Her heart is in the right place, if her doctrine is not and God honors that. We do our best. I have always admired this lady for her courage and faithfulness to a life of prayer and how she handled herself in her work environment. She is a scientist and her colleagues are all atheists and revile her for defending Christian morals, the sanctity marriage even though she is single.

It is good for Catholics to keep in mind that while their dogma may be all true, it is what you do with it that matters.

 

[steve53]

He was crucified in his 33rd year, and depending on whether you go by Newton’s numbering or traditional he was born in AD 1 or 4 BC, so either he was crucified in AD 33 or 34 by traditional numbering or AD 29 or 30 by Newtonian numbering. Where do you get 36 from?

Don’t get me started.

Where do you get A.D. 33 or A.D. 34? That’s a better question.

Luke, I suppose.