Does Jesuu's sacrifice preclude re-building the Temple?

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Traditional numbering places Jesus’ birth at AD 1 (In fact that is the very definition of AD 1.) Isaac Newton theorized that a particular comet was the Star of Bethlehem and that it had come by at 4 BC. Biblical accounts state that Christ started his ministry in his thirtieth year, and if we count the years of his public life we know that they were 3. the sum of thirty and three is thirty-three. If you remember that they didn’t use zero then his thirty-third year was either AD 33 or AD 29. ECFs tend to agree with the first set. So for a third time, where did you get 36 from?
 
Inego_de_Loyola said:
Traditional numbering places Jesus’ birth at AD 1 (In fact that is the very definition of AD 1.) Isaac Newton theorized that a particular comet was the Star of Bethlehem and that it had come by at 4 BC. Biblical accounts state that Christ started his ministry in his thirtieth year, and if we count the years of his public life we know that they were 3. the sum of thirty and three is thirty-three. If you remember that they didn’t use zero then his thirty-third year was either AD 33 or AD 29. ECFs tend to agree with the first set. So for a third time, where did you get 36 from?
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Well, you have to look at the biblical accounts. Luke basically gives two sets of numbers for his birth year, and Matthew writes about Herod the Great searching for the baby Jesus for two years. So right out of the blocks, Jesus’ birth has to be before 4 B.C., because Herod the Great died in 4 B.C.

For that matter, Luke talks about the census of Augustus where Jesus was born. According to Josephus, that occurred at A.D. 6. If Jesus started his ministry at thirty, and preached for three years , then he would have been crucified at the Passover of A.D. 39. But Pilate had been gone two years by then, according to Josephus.

John states he was an eyewitness to everything. According to John, Jesus’ ministry lasted three years, with him being crucified when he was close to fifty years of age. Also, John says there were many things about Jesus’ ministry that he did not write about- possibly more Passovers.

How is that for a start?
 
steve53 said:
Well, you have to look at the biblical accounts. Luke basically gives two sets of numbers for his birth year, and Matthew writes about Herod the Great searching for the baby Jesus for two years. So right out of the blocks, Jesus’ birth has to be before 4 B.C., because Herod the Great died in 4 B.C.

For that matter, Luke talks about the census of Augustus where Jesus was born. According to Josephus, that occurred at A.D. 6. If Jesus started his ministry at thirty, and preached for three years , then he would have been crucified at the Passover of A.D. 39. But Pilate had been gone two years by then, according to Josephus.

John states he was an eyewitness to everything. According to John, Jesus’ ministry lasted three years, with him being crucified when he was close to fifty years of age. Also, John says there were many things about Jesus’ ministry that he did not write about- possibly more Passovers.

How is that for a start?
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It starts to make your claim of AD 36 look far more absurd.:rolleyes: You gave no reasons for your position, but instead seem to be arguing that you had no clue what you were talking about earlier. 4th times a charm; why AD 36?

Descending into your bizarre array of references that notably don’t support your position.

All Josephus said was that Herod died following a lunar eclipse, and while it is true that a partial eclipse took place in 4 BC three total eclipses took place in 5 BC and one took place in 1 BC. Also we know that at least Archelaus ruled for a time while his father was dying, so this further confuses dates ascertained from the rule of his successors.

Is this your first time studying historical documents? There are always conflicting accounts whether we’re talking about a battle 5 thousand years ago or a traffic collision 5 minutes ago. History is not an exact science, which is why it is usually moderated by convention. Convention is that Christ was crucified in his 33rd year(AKA AD 33) , so what stunning evidence do you have for AD 36?
 
Well, you have to look at your sources. And the problem is a lot of scholars treat them all equally. Especially egregious are the early Church Fathers. Good men, yes, but accurate historians?

For instance, the full lunar eclipse documented by Josephus occurred just before the Passover in the year of his death-Herod dying six months or so later. And it had to be full as seen by people in Jerusalem. So the one of March 13th 4 B.C. had to be the one. The key is just before the Passover, and only that one fits the bill. In fact, a lot of ancient chronology is based upon it.

So if you take Josephus along with the accepted Roman historians of that era as sources, and work with the NT, you can derive a A.D. 36 crucifixion date. Unfortunately, parts of Luke have to be discounted, as my previous post mentioned. But that goes against Church doctrine. But Luke himself was not an eyewitness, so he might have gotten some bad information.

Specifically, folks have argued the issue of Augustus’ census as to dates, but Josephus is very clear that it was in A.D. 6, and very clear on the dates of the reign of Archelaus. If you use inferior sources to challenge that, well, OK. But you ARE using inferior sources, then, or convoluted reasoning, so what’s the point?

To arrive at a A.D. 36 date, secondary characters in the NT have to be traced and correlated with what is known about them from Josephus, Tacitus, and other primary sources. Using John as the default Gospel, not only can a A.D. 36 crucifixion date be derived, but a birth date of 12 B.C. as well, making Halley’s comet a very prominent candidate for the Star of the East.

To follow the chain, the saga of John the Baptist can be related to Herod Antipas and Herodias, who themselves can be related to Herod Agrippa, the brother of Herodias, and finally to Flaccus, who was the President of Syria for a known time period and known dates. This can also be linked to Herod Philip, whose date of death is known to a certainty.

So the key is Josephus, an under-appreciated and much maligned historian.

If you want more details, I will be forced to cite my favorite reference, but that might make DavePalm angry.
 
Sonseeahray said:
According to the Bible, and commentators where was he crucified?
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Golgotha, or “the place of the skull.”

Using the NIV:
Mark 15:22:
They brought Jesus to the place called Golgotha (which means “the place of the skull”).
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Luke 23:33:
When they came to the place called the Skull, they crucified him there, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left.
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John 19:17:
Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha).
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Matthew 27:33:
They came to a place called Golgotha (which means “the place of the skull”)
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Mount of Olives was the place where Jesus used to pray and to teach.

gospel.com/topics/mount+of+olives
 
It was probably a particular part of the escarpment that led down into the old stone quarry, the ledge of which the Romans used for their crucifixion. The quarry had become a Jewish cemetery, so the dead could be disposed of conveniently.

It had to be very close to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem on the Temple side of it.

Titus in A.D. 70 leveled much of the city of Jerusalem, and also leveled the terrain around the upper city, so the landmarks were destroyed, save the foundations of the Second Temple itself and a few odds and ends.
 
Trevor_Stamm said:
Mt. Moriah
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QUOTE=Trevor Stamm;8982945]Mt. Moriah

No - “the place of the skull” can also be translated as “the place of the head” (count). This was located on top of the Mount of Olives. Pilgrims traveling to Jerusalem from long distances were retained beside the main access road on top of the Mount of Olives. They had to undergo a seven day period of cleansing before they could continue on to Jerusalem. So anyone going to Jerusalem for a feast had to add another week to their itinerary. This is where they also did the census or head count because they didn’t have to be concerned about who was unclean and who was not not.

It was automatically assumed that a long distance traveler would come in contact with a corpse or even just a single bone and this would contaminate the traveler. This bone could be buried 200 feet deep and the traveler would still be unclean. The only thing that stops the flow of the contamination is an air gap. This is why the bridge across the Kidron valley was two tiered to stop any contamination from bones or corpses that may be buried in the valley. Also the floor of the Temple was all hollowed out underneath to stop the flow of contamination. If a person touched a dead body and someone else touches him – the second person is also contaminated. And this goes to the sixth degree. Each time the contamination becomes less and less. They had detailed laws concerning this.

The Temple contains much symbology. Notably that of the Garden of Eden; the Throne of God in heaven; and the work of the Messiah. The place where God walked with Adam and Eve in the garden is symbolic of the Holy of Holies. Next, the Heichel room (containing the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies) where the priests ministered in the Temple is the equivalent of the Garden of Eden. The land of Eden is symbolic of the Camp-of-the-Israelites. Outside of the Heichel room (Garden of Eden) in the Temple there was an alter just like in the Genesis story. To the east of the land of Eden was the land of Nod or wandering. It also had an alter just outside of the boundary line. Cain was banished to Nod for killing his brother. The alter of Cain is the equivalent of the Miphkad alter which is outside of the camp (Eden) this is where the Red Heifer was sacrificed and the ashes from the Temple sacrifices were re-burned. The Red Heifer is symbolic of Jesus’ crucifixion as both he and the red heifer were both sacrificed without-the- camp.

Note that the veil of the Temple which was about 24’ x 80’ was located in front of the Heichel or Holy Place. This curtain was symbolic of Christ and it was torn in two at the crucifixion because of an earthquake. Symbolically this means the God has opened the gates to the Garden of Eden once again: and also the Holy of Holies as well.

Joshua 3:2-4 (NASB)
And it came about at the end of three days that the officers went through the midst of the camp; [3] and they commanded the people, saying, "When you see the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God with the Levitical priests carrying it, then you shall set out from your place and go after it. [4] “However, there shall be between you and it a distance of about 2,000 cubits by measure. Do not come near it, that you may know the way by which you shall go, for you have not passed this way before.”

These traveling Israelites were considered to be unclean and were restricted from approaching the Ark by a distance of not less than 2,000 cubits (3,000 feet) This is the same as the practice of holding travelers out side of the city on top of the Mount of Olives. There is nothing unclean that was allowed within this 2,000 cubit radius from the Holy of Holies. This 2,000 cubit limit covered most of the western side of the Mount of Olives and nothing unclean was allowed within this 4,000 cubit diameter. So the place of execution, the leper colony, the Miphkad alter, Golgotha or place of the head or census area had to be located outside of this restricted area. The place where the travelers were cleansed had also required to be without the camp.

Most of the tourist sacred sites of today were etablished by Constantine’s mother Helina. They are all wrong except possibly one. So when you read Hebrews…

Hebrews 13:11 (NASB)
For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priest as an offering for sin, are burned outside the camp.

This is the re-burning of the ashes from the Temple on the Miphkad alter “(or alter of the Red Heifer or the alter of Cain.)

Hebrews 13:12-13 (NASB)
Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate. [13] Hence, let us go out to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach.

Verse 13 is always ignored because it is not commonly known what the phrase “without(or outside)-the-camp” means. You cannot cherry pick scripture but we must account for it all.
 
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