Does Latin Mass Disrupt Unity?

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I’m asking this truly because I want some more perspective on this–not as an accusation or condemnation–does the celebration of the Latin Mass with priest turned, etc. upset the union of worshippers to each other? What I mean is, because the Mass is celebrated in the post-Vatican II way and the more tradiitional way, does that make us less united in the celebration? Hope this question makes sense and please do keep responses charitable–I’m here seeking informaiton and understanding.

Thanks.
 
cathyt said:
I’m asking this truly because I want some more perspective on this–not as an accusation or condemnation–does the celebration of the Latin Mass with priest turned, etc. upset the union of worshippers to each other? What I mean is, because the Mass is celebrated in the post-Vatican II way and the more tradiitional way, does that make us less united in the celebration? Hope this question makes sense and please do keep responses charitable–I’m here seeking informaiton and understanding.

Thanks.
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The pope has already anticipated this question in his motu proprio and here is his answer:
The Roman Missal promulgated by Paul VI is the ordinary expression of the ‘Lex orandi’ (Law of prayer) of the Catholic Church of the Latin rite. Nonetheless, the Roman Missal promulgated by St. Pius V and reissued by Bl. John XXIII is to be considered as an extraordinary expression of that same ‘Lex orandi,’ and must be given due honour for its venerable and ancient usage. **These two expressions of the Church’s Lex orandi will in no way lead to a division in the Church’s ‘Lex credendi’ (Law of belief). **They are, in fact two usages of the one Roman rite.
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summorumpontificum.net/2007/07/summorum-pontificum-english.html
 
If I am not mistaken, I think you mean the unity amongst the people present at the specific Mass, and not amongst Catholics as a whole who attend different liturgies.

I don’t think so in regards to the former. I think the unity amongst those present is just as strong (or weak) regardless of the form on the liturgy. It depends on the people present. Anyway, we gain our unity as the Body of Christ through our communion with the Head of the Church, Jesus Christ, and His vicar on earth, the Pope of Rome, all professing the same faith and receiving the Holy Eucharist, the Sacrament of Unity.

As for the latter, I don’t think it causes disunity. My old parish offers both and there was no disunity that I could disern anymore than there is any less unity between those who go to the Mass early in the morning with little or no music and those who go to the Mass where the choir sings.

The Church as a whole has always had a diversity in liturgical rites without disrupting the unity in worship found in the substance of the Mass/Divine Liturgy.
 
I can’t see it being any worse than with Parishes offering the ordinary rite in English, Spanish, Polish, Chinese etc.

Actually, it’s probably better, since everyone is on the same footing with regards to Latin, there would probably be less self-segregation.

God Bless
 
I would agree with Genesis, except to the degree that one group or the other within the Church starts to feel that their form is "superior’. If we can truly come to an understanding of them both being equal expressions of the same mystery, I don’t see a unity problem at all.

Within an individual Mass, I don’t see the form influencing “unity”, though they certainly take different approaches to participation.
 
No, it doesn’t disrupt unity, rather it focuses unity on the One Whom we are all facing. It establishes that our unity with each other is in HIM.
 
the latin mass brings about unity of catholics. if the tridentine mass were the ordinary mass, you could go to any country in the world and have the same mass said. novus ordo allows for too many parishes having their own customs. latin is the catholic language. we wouldn’t need spanish language masses, polish language masses, etc. we could all go to the same mass know what was happening.
 
I was talking about the ad orientum position, really, not the EF in particular. I attend the OF and, properly celebrated, there isn’t an overemphasis on the horizontal to the cost of the vertical. But I’ve long prefered the ad orientum/versus populum.

I think masses in the vernacular promote unity among parishoners who speak the same language.
 
I dont think so. Individual people can disrupt unity, not a Mass.
cathyt said:
I’m asking this truly because I want some more perspective on this–not as an accusation or condemnation–does the celebration of the Latin Mass with priest turned, etc. upset the union of worshippers to each other? What I mean is, because the Mass is celebrated in the post-Vatican II way and the more tradiitional way, does that make us less united in the celebration? Hope this question makes sense and please do keep responses charitable–I’m here seeking informaiton and understanding.

Thanks.
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Godi said:
Amen!!!
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Amen, Amen, was going to say the same exact thing.

How does being able to see the priest have anything to do with unity?

Is it you want him seeing “you”?

He is offering a mass for the sacrifice of our Lord, not the people.

“I shifted in my pew as if to seek the face of the priest and realized moments later, it is the face of God I should be seeking in the Mass!”
 
Another aspect on unity:

If you go to France and go to a Latin Mass, you may have your Latin-English Missal while the guy next to you has the Latin-French Missal, and there may even be a German carrying his missal with the translation in it, but when you pray the people’s prayers out loud, you are all praying the same words.

Also, with regards to unity throughout history, you are hearing the same words spoken by St. Augustine, St. Robert Bellarmine, St. John Vianney, St. Thomas Aquinas, etc… when they said Mass.

That’s unity!! 👍
 
repo man:
latin is the catholic language. we wouldn’t need spanish language masses, polish language masses, etc. we could all go to the same mass know what was happening.
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Close. More like "Latin is a dead language. we wouldn’t need Spanish language Masses, Polish language Masses, etc. We could all go to the same Mass and NOT know what was happening.
 
John_Higgins said:
Close. More like "Latin is a dead language. we wouldn’t need Spanish language Masses, Polish language Masses, etc. We could all go to the same Mass and NOT know what was happening.
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Only if one is persistant in their refusal to learn basic Latin or get a missal.
 
ComradeAndrei said:
Only if one is persistant in their refusal to learn basic Latin or get a missal.
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I agree.

When I started attending latin mass with my wife (before we were married) it was VERY, VERY hard to follow along, even with the booklet.

However the more I went I started to lean the latin and now it is a way of life. Now when I hear it chanted it is an experience you will never know if you don’t let yourself learn it. Not wanting to learn it is a cop out.

My wife and I went to Hawaii for our honeymoon. We went to this church

smcenter.org/staugustine/

They sang the Gloria in Hawaiian, trust me, while it was nice, it broke the spiritualness of the mass big time, esp. with the drumming.
 
I took four years of Latin in high school and that’s fine. The reason I’ll leave you to the Latin Mass and I’ll feel blessed to have the Mass of Paul VI is the same reason I don’t like opera but I like a Gilbert and Sullivan operetta–who wants to have to have a libretto?

John
 
I agree-once you have even the slightest working knowledge of the old Mass (or even the new Mass) in Latin, plenty of doors to liturgical and theological enrichment are opened wide. The more and more you give yourself over to it, the more and more you get out of it.

If we just want to show up on time (or not…) for Mass and be spoke at in Newspaperese that goes in one ear and out the other, we aren’t really engaging in actuoso participatio. Good thing that the English translation is at least getting a going over. Hopefully it will be much better than what we have now.
 
John_Higgins said:
I took four years of Latin in high school and that’s fine. The reason I’ll leave you to the Latin Mass and I’ll feel blessed to have the Mass of Paul VI is the same reason I don’t like opera but I like a Gilbert and Sullivan operetta–who wants to have to have a libretto?

John
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Sacrosanctum Concililum said that Latin was to be retained-regardless of what form is being used.
 
repo_man said:
…latin is the catholic language…
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Hmmm… and to think that for all these years I thought it was Old Church Slavonic! 😃 😉

…this, coming from an ol’ Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic who distinctly remembers as a kid learning my Otc’e Nas’ while my youthful Roman Catholic counterparts were busy learning their Pater Noster. 🙂

…guess there ain’t just one Catholic language after all!
 
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