Does Latin Mass Disrupt Unity?

[jmcrae]

Close. More like "Latin is a dead language. we wouldn’t need Spanish language Masses, Polish language Masses, etc. We could all go to the same Mass and NOT know what was happening.

The human brain is a very interesting machine - it processes language quite efficiently. The mere act of listening to words being spoken causes infants to learn their native language within just a few short years - no classes required.

The same process occurs when we hear words in a different language spoken over and over again - our brain processes the sounds and extracts their meaning, until after a while, we understand what is being said to us in a different language, without ever knowing how we learned it.

If one were to attend a Latin Mass over a period of several months, I expect he would figure out the meaning of the words, even without a booklet to help him.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I agree-once you have even the slightest working knowledge of the old Mass (or even the new Mass) in Latin, plenty of doors to liturgical and theological enrichment are opened wide. The more and more you give yourself over to it, the more and more you get out of it. The same can be said for a vernacular Mass

If we just want to show up on time (or not…) for Mass and be spoke at in Newspaperese that goes in one ear and out the other, we aren’t really engaging in actuoso participatio.

Like you are when your English-speaking priest, standing in front of an (let’s say) English-speaking congregation, addresses God in a language (and God MUST be prayed to in that particular language!) that is not native to to either the priest or the congregation while the congregation follows along in a book that has an English translation of what the priest, standing 15 feet away, is saying in that foreign language? Yes, I suppose you could make a case that there is more active participation (um, sorry,* actuoso participatio* ). I mean, you’re turning the pages of a book, not to mention furrowing your brow in concentration (I wonder how many calories turning and furrowing burn up)!

Just yanking your chain, Comrade!

 

[Steve40]

What I mean is, because the Mass is celebrated in the post-Vatican II way and the more tradiitional way, does that make us less united in the celebration? Hope this question makes sense and please do keep responses charitable–I’m here seeking informaiton and understanding.

Thanks.

I don’t think so. The Eastern Rite Mass is different from the Latin Rite and we are no less united to them. I wouldn’t mind seeing the Latin Rite split into two different Rites but even then we still would be united by the same faith, same sacrifice under the Holy Pontif.

 

[otjm]

The pope has already anticipated this question in his motu proprio and here is his answer:

summorumpontificum.net/2007/07/summorum-pontificum-english.html

The proble is, your quote doesn’t answer the question. The question is, “does it upset people”?

The answer to that is that until people are exposed to the EF, no one truly knows.

There will probably be some wwho are sold on an idea that the EF is a “step backwards”; for others, it may be simply that they don’t care for it and avoid that Mass time for another Mass time; others will like it. But until people are exposed to it, the question is largely theoretical and speculative. One might as well speculate on which team will go to the SuperBowl.

 

[otjm]

the latin mass brings about unity of catholics. if the tridentine mass were the ordinary mass, you could go to any country in the world and have the same mass said. novus ordo allows for too many parishes having their own customs. latin is the catholic language. we wouldn’t need spanish language masses, polish language masses, etc. we could all go to the same mass know what was happening.

We pretty much can do that now anyway. I can go to Mass anywhere in the world in the OF and know what is going on, because I have been attending it for 38 years and am familiar with the rubrics. I might not be able to understand it if it gets very far at all from a Romance Language; but it is the same Mass anywhere in the world, just in a different language. If it was in Latin, I would probably understand more of it than most people; but I attended it in Latin as a youth and had to use a Missal. So did almost every other person in my parish who was paying attention, as none of them spoke Latin.

The Mass with the same rubrics brings about unity of Catholics; it doesn’t matter if it is the EF or the OF, and I am tired of hearing that only the EF could do that because it was in Latin. Almost no one speaks or reads Latin now, and while it was taught back then, at least in the Western World, most people could not do more than understand a few words here and there.

As a matter of fact, I have been to other areas of the world in languages I didn’t understand, and attended Mass in the OF and knew what was going on. That’s just silly that people would have to have it in latin to have a clue. The Gospel is always after the three readings and Psalm; the Offeratory always preceeds the Consecration; the prayers for the Church always proceed after the Consecration, and Communion follows that. It ain’t that hard.

 

[Scotty_PGH]

The proble is, your quote doesn’t answer the question. The question is, “does it upset people”?

Wrong.

The question is, “Is there any reason why it SHOULD upset people?”

And your pope has answered, “NO!”

 

[cathyt]

There are some helpful insights here. I appreciate the (name removed by moderator)ut. Just to clarify, I did mean the unity between those who celebrate the TLM and those who celebrate Mass in the vernacular, not the unity among those who celebrate the TLM together. Does that make sense??? Thanks again.

 

[Windmill]

Ah, that does help clarify.

We must remember that either Mass (the 1962 Mass or the current Mass) can be said in Latin, so the language is not an essential barrier. Also, there is nothing in the Vatican II documents or current General Instruction of the Roman Missal that mandates the priest face the people… the rubrics actually assume he is facing “away”, or, as we prefer to say, “the same direction as the faithful are facing.”

As for dividing the faithful, I’d say it shows division no more than the Eastern Rite Catholics signify “division.” IOW, not at all.

 

[bpbasilphx]

If and only if you interpret “unity” to mean “uniformity.”

 

[otjm]

Wrong.

The question is, “Is there any reason why it SHOULD upset people?”

And your pope has answered, “NO!”

You might try reading the OP instead of telling me I am wrong. I only repeated the OP’s question, and the answer that was given in the post I replied to did not answer the OP’s question.

I know what the Pope said. I also know that there are some parishes in which parishoners would be upset with the Ef being offered. I don’t say that is right or wrong. just say it is factual. Parishes that have a very liberal streak are going to have parishones who would see that as a direct indictment of what they want the Mass to look like. Given that what they want the Mass to look like is, odds on, not what the Church wants the Mass to look like, it is going to act as a mirror which will show the distortions they have introduced, and as a result, will not show the picture they want to see.

Try reading in context; when people ask questions, it is generally because they would like an answer. The OP asked a question; my response was that another psoter was answering a question not asked; you did likewise.

As for parishes that have a reverently said OF, I would not expect to see disunity, as people attending the OF there are much more likely to see it as a legitimate choice and option.

But then, realisticly, what are the odds the EF will be said publicly in a parish which is very liberal? Slim and none, more likely.

 

[VociMike]

There are some helpful insights here. I appreciate the (name removed by moderator)ut. Just to clarify, I did mean the unity between those who celebrate the TLM and those who celebrate Mass in the vernacular, not the unity among those who celebrate the TLM together. Does that make sense??? Thanks again.

Is that situation any different than that of the 9AM “adult choir” Mass followed by the 11AM “praise choir” Mass?

Having said that, a local priest did complain, at a NO Mass, that he was feeling “invaded” by the new EF Mass which had begun (by order of the bishop, no less) in their parish. Pretty divisive words from the pulpit, I’d say.

 

[otjm]

Is that situation any different than that of the 9AM “adult choir” Mass followed by the 11AM “praise choir” Mass?

Having said that, a local priest did complain, at a NO Mass, that he was feeling “invaded” by the new EF Mass which had begun (by order of the bishop, no less) in their parish. Pretty divisive words from the pulpit, I’d say.

And absolutely unnecessary. Talk about stirring the pot…