Does "LGBT" reflect a kind of social pecking order within "the gay community"?

[livingwordunity]

So please, don’t put the word “gay” or anything like it in quotes. The exception being doing what I just did, putting it in quotes to refer to the word itself. (Or, of course, if actually quoting someone)

I put “gay” in quotes because it is a politically charged word like “Pro-Choice” is. “Gay” didn’t always mean what people think of it today. The word that used to mean “happy” was hijacked by a political movement whose goal was use the word to normalize homosexual behavior and make it sound like something good. The end goal of this political movement (only criticizing the political lobby, not individuals) was to destroy society’s concept of marriage. By the way, there plenty of heterosexuals in this same political lobby that I say are perhaps worse since they encourage others to sin.

 

[Kamaduck]

This link came up on Catholic Memes today.

Gay, Catholic, and Doing Fine

Gay != Advocating same-sex marriage. (I’m in CS. != is how I think to write =/=) Just like not every feminist wants reverse discrimination against men. Or how you can be atheist without trying to abolish public religion. Or be atheist and still be pro-life. Or be against redefinition of marriage, and not hate homosexuals as people.

So please, don’t put the word “gay” or anything like it in quotes. The exception being doing what I just did, putting it in quotes to refer to the word itself. (Or, of course, if actually quoting someone)

And maybe there is some sort of a pecking order implied in the ordering of LGBT. But at the same time, it’s also quite likely that they just tack more letters onto it as more communities come out. If there was a pecking order, then it might be LGBQT instead of LGBTQ. But seeing as any non-LGBT letters just show up at the end, it seems a safe assumption that they’re just being tacked on to the end because they’re newer.

In other words, barring the whole LGBT/GLBT debate, most of the ordering is probably explainable by how new the communities are.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I put “gay” in quotes because it is a politically charged word like “Pro-Choice” is. “Gay” didn’t always mean what people think of it today. The word that used to mean “happy” was hijacked by a political movement whose goal was use the word to normalize homosexual behavior and make it sound like something good. The end goal of this political movement (only criticizing the political lobby, not individuals) was to destroy society’s concept of marriage. By the way, there plenty of heterosexuals in this same political lobby that I say are perhaps worse since they encourage others to sin.

It used to be used to refer to promiscuous men and prostitutes in addition to “happy”.

 

[livingwordunity]

It used to be used to refer to promiscuous men and prostitutes in addition to “happy”.

That would be odd considering…

Deck the Halls : Lyrics

Deck the halls with boughs of holly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Tis the season to be jolly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Don we now our gay apparel,
Fa la la, la la la, la la la.
Troll the ancient Yule tide carol,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

See the blazing Yule before us,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Strike the harp and join the chorus.
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Follow me in merry measure,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
While I tell of Yule tide treasure,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Fast away the old year passes,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Hail the new, ye lads and lasses,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Sing we joyous, all together,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Heedless of the wind and weather,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Source

 

[Kamaduck]

That would be odd considering…

Deck the Halls : Lyrics

Deck the halls with boughs of holly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Tis the season to be jolly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Don we now our gay apparel,
Fa la la, la la la, la la la.
Troll the ancient Yule tide carol,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

See the blazing Yule before us,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Strike the harp and join the chorus.
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Follow me in merry measure,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
While I tell of Yule tide treasure,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Fast away the old year passes,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Hail the new, ye lads and lasses,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Sing we joyous, all together,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
Heedless of the wind and weather,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

Source

I don’t see how that’s odd. There are lots of words that have different meanings when used as slang. Sure, it meant happy, but it could also have meant lots of other things.

 

[SMGS127]

I put “gay” in quotes because it is a politically charged word like “Pro-Choice” is. “Gay” didn’t always mean what people think of it today. The word that used to mean “happy” was hijacked by a political movement whose goal was use the word to normalize homosexual behavior and make it sound like something good. The end goal of this political movement (only criticizing the political lobby, not individuals) was to destroy society’s concept of marriage. By the way, there plenty of heterosexuals in this same political lobby that I say are perhaps worse since they encourage others to sin.

Actually, gay was used by the community because anti-gay people used it against them first as hateful slang, so they (successfully) redefined the word from an anti-gay pejorative to mean “Good As You.” There was no intended redefinition from “happy.” They were trying to disseminate hate language, much like lesbians have partially been able to do with “d**e” and what some gay men are trying to do with “f****t,” though the latter will probably never become any less offensive than the n-word for racial slang.

 

[livingwordunity]

Actually, gay was used by the community because anti-gay people used it against them first as hateful slang, so they (successfully) redefined the word from an anti-gay pejorative to mean “Good As You.” There was no intended redefinition from “happy.” They were trying to disseminate hate language, much like lesbians have partially been able to do with “d**e” and what some gay men are trying to do with “f****t,” though the latter will probably never become any less offensive than the n-word for racial slang.

There seems to be a general assumption that when someone says they are “gay” that they mean they believe in and fully embrace all the things that are advertised about it to include so-called same-sex “marriage”. How accurate would you say this assumption is? I prefer using the term “same-sex attraction” when I am discussing the subject of homosexuals because SSA has no political connotation and because I’m trying to make a distinction between political activists vs those who struggle with SSA and who realize that the behavior is unnatural and even dangerous (for men). Although I don’t have SSA, I can sympathize with their struggle because I struggle with sin, too. It’s just that I struggle with a different kind of sin.

 

[Kamaduck]

There seems to be a general assumption that when someone says they are “gay” that they mean they believe in and fully embrace all the things that are advertised about it to include so-called same-sex “marriage”. How accurate would you say this assumption is? I prefer using the term “same-sex attraction” when I am discussing the subject of homosexuals because SSA has no political connotation and because I’m trying to make a distinction between political activists vs those who struggle with SSA and who realize that the behavior is unnatural and even dangerous (for men). Although I don’t have SSA, I can sympathize with their struggle because I struggle with sin, too. It’s just that I struggle with a different kind of sin.

Well, it’s not true of the young man who wrote the article Razanir linked to. He calls himself gay, but is clearly an orthodox Catholic. Outside of our particular circles, “gay” generally means the same as “same-sex attracted”. It’s not a political statement or a statement of belief, only a term used to identify those who exclusively experience SSA. I like the term SSA as well, because it is specific, but the fact is that many people who call themselves gay are also orthodox Catholics.

 

[meltzerboy]

Well, it’s not true of the young man who wrote the article Razanir linked to. He calls himself gay, but is clearly an orthodox Catholic. Outside of our particular circles, “gay” generally means the same as “same-sex attracted”. It’s not a political statement or a statement of belief, only a term used to identify those who exclusively experience SSA. I like the term SSA as well, because it is specific, but the fact is that many people who call themselves gay are also orthodox Catholics.

Besides, who calls themselves or thinks about themselves using the words “same-sex attracted” or “opposite-sex attracted”? Gay and straight are so much easier terms to use as shorthand. And homosexual, heterosexual, and bisexual are too medically sounding.

 

[livingwordunity]

Besides, who calls themselves or thinks about themselves using the words “same-sex attracted” or “opposite-sex attracted”? Gay and straight are so much easier terms to use as shorthand. And homosexual, heterosexual, and bisexual are too medically sounding.

Probably most people don’t know that Alfred Kinsey, the same one whose research is often touted by gay activists, believed that sexual attraction is something that is fluid and changeable. And just as Pavlov’s “Classical Conditioning” is used in psychology to explain how people can develop an odd fetish, I believe the same explanation can applied to the development of homosexual attraction.

 

[Usagi]

Are you ever going to explain what the order of the letters in the abbreviation has to do with gay hypocrisy?

Usagi

 

[Kamaduck]

Probably most people don’t know that Alfred Kinsey, the same one whose research is often touted by gay activists, believed that sexual attraction is something that is fluid and changeable. And just as Pavlov’s “Classical Conditioning” is used in psychology to explain how people can develop an odd fetish, I believe the same explanation can applied to the development of homosexual attraction.

I don’t know what this comment has to do with the term “gay”, or what it has to do with Meltzerboy’s post. Are you saying you don’t use the term “gay” because you believe that sexuality is fluid, and that sexual orientations therefore do not exist?

If that is what you’re saying, I’d say the words are still useful insofar as they allow us to communicate our experiences to others.

Are you ever going to explain what the order of the letters in the abbreviation has to do with gay hypocrisy?

Usagi

I guess it’s something along the lines of claiming that everyone is equal, but putting women first in the acronym. As though putting men first would make it any more equal.