Does Life Teen Translate Into Adult Catholic Life?

[tom.wineman]

The Catholic church can’t afford to keep loosing people. Especially teens. 85% of my Catholic friends lost the faith after high school and in school only did it because school made them and their parents made them. There wasn’t anything to keep the teens involved. Life Teen… regardless of its questionable masses… still keeps young Catholics involved in the church… and hopefully keeps them in the faith after they’ve grown up.

That is the question ?

Does keeping them involved in this way keep them, or make them Catholic ?

 

[johnpaul2_fan]

That is the question ?

Does keeping them involved in this way keep them, or make them Catholic ?

No, they had many similar programs in my diocese, while I was growing up. (I’m only a Freshman in college, so it wasn’t to long ago I was in CCD, youth group, etc.) Let me tell you, the youth program had tons of youth going to the activities, but when Sunday came around 15%, maybe showed up to Mass. I was very involved, throughout my middle school and high school years, but I didn’t even know about the Real Presence. They preached the gospel of lukewarmness.

It wasn’t until I went to a Catholic camp where we learned about the saints, our Blessed Mother, etc, and prayed the rosary and liturgy of the hours daily until I had any sort of conversion, or change in my life.

It may not be like that everywhere but that was my experiance.

 

[Psalm45_9]

That is the question ?

Does keeping them involved in this way keep them, or make them Catholic ?

IMOP :nope: When they go off to college and there is no lifeteen anymore, they stop going to Mass. Except the few who were already well grounded in their faith before they stated going to Life Teen.

 

[Meggie]

In my experiance, yes, it does, out of five lifeteen I know there are atleast three men on road to seminary, four questionong, and two are like that almost sisters thing and a coulple are still in college considering.

Many of my freinds are firm church goers…I know one who goes to the same UNI and me and we both attend Mass.

I wouldn’t necessarly blame Lifeteen if young adults go to Mass during college. College, these days, is all about “me” and that driving immage can make even the bravest of souls stray.

On the other hand, of the 50-60 mass regulars (for the 10 pm mass) at my uni only one or two didn’t have a STRONG youth group, about half are former Lifeteeners.

Of Lifeteeners who don’t attend mass they all have a deep respect for the Catholic Church.

A good Lifeteen has weekly Mass and at least a monthly Adoration. You can know an organization by its fruits. Youth activities are NOT “just” similar to Lifeteen becusae Lifeteen is Eucharist based.

 

[LeahInancsi]

It all starts and ends at home. The best Catechism teachers are the parents. If they aren’t properly catechised, then it’s their responsibility to become so.

Oh, I wish I had kids. I’d turn them into junior apologists. They’d have all the answers they need to fight off those nasty college years and those who try to fill their heads about the Catholic church.

 

[agapewolf]

I’ve posted this in another forum awhile back, but here goes again:

I am a 32 year old music director of a parish. Before this job, I was a youth minister for 5 years. I became an orthodox devout practicing Catholic through LifeTeen **as an adult youth minister.
**
Fruits from LifeTeen I have seen first hand:
I have seen this program keep teens from not only leaving the church, but the same teen enter the seminary and become a priest. I have seen MANY sisters in different (conservative) orders take vows who were once in LT programs, and discerned their vocation in a LT program.Teens bring their parents back to church. The Lifeteen Mass at our parish has all ages…. Not just teens and their parents, but our biggest fan, a 90 year old man.

At the lifenights, we teach chastity, catechesis, OBJECTIVE morality, modesty, a healthy prayer life (sub prayer groups study saints, in depth bible studies, ministerial life, evangelization in schools, and doctors of the church).

My participation in LifeTeen as an adult has helped me to love the Mass for itself. I love a quiet daily Mass. I am not afraid of silence and go to holy hours in our quiet adoration chapel because of experiences like the Steubenville youth conference and LifeTeen retreats with adoration and music. Before, adoration used to be something I dreaded cause you just knelt a really long time and got bored. (in grade school). Now it’s an amazing experience of the Lord.

We had adoration and praise and worship music at our parish one night… 3 6th graders came up to me after that one night and asked to sign up for a slot of our perpetual adoration chapel.
PRAISE GOD!!!

 

[cue]

I’m sure most of us have had some experience with Lifeteen and I’m sure they are all different experiences. It would seem more helpful if we discussed more than personal experiences. The people involved in Lifeteen are very genuine and loving Christians–no doubt about it. Nonetheless, when we are examining a program, we need to look more at its methods (which might be good or bad), rather than its people (who are created good).

Is it a good thing to regularly and routinely seperate these teens from the rest of the parish community during the celebration of the Sacraments? What message does this send to the youth?

Does this program, however attractive it may be to them, prepare them to join in the sacrifice of the cross, dying to themselves (feelings, desires, emotions) and living for Chirst?

Does this program help these people to understand the emotions and relativity do not constitute a legitimate basis for belief, morality, and worship or does it compete for teens’ attention in the exact same way as the culture does, therefore fueling the ‘dictatorship of relativism?’

Does this program account for different personality types?

These are some of the expectations of Christian adults.

Some of these questions will have an experiential element or answer to them, however, we should look first to the methods of the program itself.

 

[Titus]

I’m sure most of us have had some experience with Lifeteen and I’m sure they are all different experiences. It would seem more helpful if we discussed more than personal experiences. The people involved in Lifeteen are very genuine and loving Christians–no doubt about it. Nonetheless, when we are examining a program, we need to look more at its methods (which might be good or bad), rather than its people (who are created good).

**But the problem is the program is all about how the parish implements it. It can be fantastic, as seen in agapewolf’s post. **

Is it a good thing to regularly and routinely seperate these teens from the rest of the parish community during the celebration of the Sacraments? What message does this send to the youth?

**Again, is this necessarily true? Adults turn up in droves for good Life Teen masses, so we are returning to the implementation of the program. **

Does this program, however attractive it may be to them, prepare them to join in the sacrifice of the cross, dying to themselves (feelings, desires, emotions) and living for Chirst?

Yes. (If done well- see agapewolf’s post)

Does this program help these people to understand the emotions and relativity do not constitute a legitimate basis for belief, morality, and worship or does it compete for teens’ attention in the exact same way as the culture does, therefore fueling the ‘dictatorship of relativism?’

Sometimes (yes in agapewolf’s post)

Does this program account for different personality types?

**Huh? **

These are some of the expectations of Christian adults.

Some of these questions will have an experiential element or answer to them, however, we should look first to the methods of the program itself.
**We need to see the actual program, I think. **

 

[Meggie]

Is it a good thing to regularly and routinely seperate these teens from the rest of the parish community during the celebration of the Sacraments? What message does this send to the youth?

First off, Lifeteen dosn’t separate familes. Many families come to Lifeteen Masses. In my experiance Lifeteen kids go to a couple times, frequeting the sacraments more. Also, for many, many teens their parents are fallen away and sitting with their peers makes weekly Mass easier to go. Just think of being 15 and desiring to go to Mass and having to go ALONE with no support. It rarely happens.

Does this program, however attractive it may be to them, prepare them to join in the sacrifice of the cross, dying to themselves (feelings, desires, emotions) and living for Chirst?

Yes. Actually, almst all the teen that go to lifeteen face the “church freak” factor. They have to skip out of fun events elseware in order to go to Mass. And its still not “cool” or “ok” like some protestant services are considered. Practicing, involved, spiritual Catholic teens are considered freaks by society. Some of my friends at Lifeteen sacrificed life long friends and family lifestyles (parties, luxuary, etc) to kneel in a church alterrail for adoraion in an just barely heated enough church.

Does this program help these people to understand the emotions and relativity do not constitute a legitimate basis for belief, morality, and worship or does it compete for teens’ attention in the exact same way as the culture does, therefore fueling the ‘dictatorship of relativism?’

Emotions can run high in Lifeteen, positive feelings, but feelings are de-emphasized. You do it becuase it is morally right, you go to Mass becuase you have an obligation, and that obligation is for the better ment of your soul. Again, this is what Lifeteen HQ speaks of, its printed again and again to emphaize this and teach the teens. It may not be done, but as an orginization it dosn’t.
And I wouldn’t say that some lame worship songs and free pizza are the end all be all for competing for kids attention. They have TONS of better stuff to do. It just creates an invironment that they are more familiar with in order to help them understand what needs to be heard insted of focusing on the differences.

Does this program account for different personality types?

Absolutely. There is a mix of “lifenights” some are upbeat party nights, some are quiet, meditiative Bible study nights, some are upbeat topic nights, some are serious topic nights. This is if the “lifenight-lifeline” packs are followed.

 

[Psalm45_9]

My primary concern with Lifeteen and Steubenville’s youth conferences is that if fills our teens with a flames of religious passion, which is good. But then they leave the youth conference and go back to their typical parishes, or they go off to college and into a typical parish, that fire is quickly extinquished. Like I said before, for those who are already well grounded in the faith before they begin the program, it might work, but the rest I don’t think know how to live off of the coals once that fire is doused by those “normal” “boring” liturgies that take place at a typical parish.

 

[agapewolf]

I don’t think you just read what I wrote.

its BECAUSE of the lifeTeen masses and steubenvilles that I am able to enjoy a quiet mass and silent adoration.

Your logic doesn’t make sense. So we shouldn’t have mountain top experiences just because we won’t always have them? That’s the whole basis for a retreat, etc.

Steubenville manuals discuss how to process the conference with the teens, as well as how to support them afterwards. LifeTeen, as I stated before, teaches about how to live out the faith in college and in the future.

 

[Psalm45_9]

I don’t think you just read what I wrote.

its BECAUSE of the lifeTeen masses and steubenvilles that I am able to enjoy a quiet mass and silent adoration.

Your logic doesn’t make sense. So we shouldn’t have mountain top experiences just because we won’t always have them? That’s the whole basis for a retreat, etc.

Steubenville manuals discuss how to process the conference with the teens, as well as how to support them afterwards. LifeTeen, as I stated before, teaches about how to live out the faith in college and in the future.

And those who are already well grounded in their faith (ie not doing it to learn about it) are very successful at it. But the for the teen that does not know Jesus, the wrong message can come across. I remember my high school years how I was learning about Jesus. I remember we saw Jesus Christ superstar live, I LOVED IT! I even bought the CD. I brought it with me to college. Then I got into Godspell and all the contemporary christian stuff. I had Jesus loves me stuff all over my room, I even red the Bible almost daily. Now for the darkside, my jesus posters were side by side with my playboy centefolds. I got a lot of people on my floor into Jesus Christ Superstar, we used to watch it when ever we’d smoke the wacky tabacy. We all used to go to church together, to listen to this happy uplifiting homilies. Of course they sometimes would talk about how we shouldn’t be doing this and that, but we just rolled our eyes, because we all thought we knew Jesus better then the adults did. Then one day I stumbled across the writings of the early church fathers. Reading them led me away from that lifestyle. But I never heard about them until my own initative.

Then one day I walked silently into the adoration chapel at my church at home. The silent was so nice, thanks to the fathers of the church, I fianally realized what was actually going on.

 

[Meggie]

Its quite desparing to compare a Steubenville experiance to Jesus Christ Superstar and Godspell.

Steubenville dose NOT make God “cool”. It simply uses tools that teens are familiar with, be it music, food, or humor. To teach them about Mass, Adoration, and moral issues.

Adoration at Steubenville can be done in silence. Its not a big rock concert. The homilies and lessons are not all happy, often they often speak about abortion, consequences of premarital sex, why its important to give to others, etc.

This word dose not raise believers. My generation comes from the children of those who lost their faith (while still practice religion) during Vatican II. My parents generation has no clue about Adoration, and my Grandparents (genrally speaking) weren’t sure what to believe.

Its not about living once the “fire” has been doused. To even think that a teen could not enjoy and understand and ordinary Mass is insulting to their intellegiance. Its simply easier for them to come to Christ if the are in a non-threatening environment. And, in all honesty, a normal Mass to someone who has no faith, can be hard.

There is still fire, passion inside, its simply redirected as a person grows. Not to say that I don’t still love happy Masses, but I wouldn’t reject the church if I never could go to one again. (although I’d question their ideas if they banned the masses)

Somehow, the idea has been had that Steubenville is all about excitement, fun, when really its about a spiritual awakening, in the quiet of Adoration, in the soft whispers of night prayers, in the rapt attention of one thousand teens and a priest speaks about Jesus. And yes, even in the upbeat music.

Like I said before, kids aren’t stupid. For many of them if they wanted fun they could go to sports camp, or the lake house or ride on dirt bikes, or shop at the mall, they have hundreds of options that astetically please them. However, becuase someone reached out in Jesus’ name the way they are familiar, they came to love, live and sacrifice for Christ.

 

[Psalm45_9]

Its quite desparing to compare a Steubenville experiance to Jesus Christ Superstar and Godspell.

Steubenville dose NOT make God “cool”. It simply uses tools that teens are familiar with, be it music, food, or humor. To teach them about Mass, Adoration, and moral issues.

I’ve been to one sorry, that’s how it came across to me. Yeah, we’re using those tools, but it’s like diet pepsi, it’s not the same as regular pepsi.

 

[Psalm45_9]

The homilies and lessons are not all happy, often they often speak about abortion, consequences of premarital sex, why its important to give to others, etc.

This is the most positive thing I saw at Stuebenville. The rest I did not care for. I had way too many people acting like I have never experienced adoration or Christ until I went on that conference. I was just confirmed that Easter at age 21 after my spiritual awakening via the writings of the Church Fathers. Afterwards I came to appreciate gregorian chant, bendedication, etc. I still love the smashing pumpkins, Live, all the “in” stuff of my teenage years. It just really frustrated me that way too many people were insisting that because I never went to Steubenville, I have never experienced Christ before. It was a very frustrating experience. Just like my current involvement in Lifeteen at my parish.

 

[Psalm45_9]

I would also like to note what I have stated in other posts about this topic:

Lifenite=:yup: :clapping:

Lifeteen Mass=:bigyikes: :nope: :banghead: :crying:

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

I’m sure most of us have had some experience with Lifeteen and I’m sure they are all different experiences. It would seem more helpful if we discussed more than personal experiences. The people involved in Lifeteen are very genuine and loving Christians–no doubt about it. Nonetheless, when we are examining a program, we need to look more at its methods (which might be good or bad), rather than its people (who are created good).

Is it a good thing to regularly and routinely seperate these teens from the rest of the parish community during the celebration of the Sacraments? What message does this send to the youth?

Does this program, however attractive it may be to them, prepare them to join in the sacrifice of the cross, dying to themselves (feelings, desires, emotions) and living for Chirst?

Does this program help these people to understand the emotions and relativity do not constitute a legitimate basis for belief, morality, and worship or does it compete for teens’ attention in the exact same way as the culture does, therefore fueling the ‘dictatorship of relativism?’

Does this program account for different personality types?

These are some of the expectations of Christian adults.

Some of these questions will have an experiential element or answer to them, however, we should look first to the methods of the program itself.

While people can quibble about whether question x or y is fair or relevant, I think the project you propose is, in fact, the crucial one. Don’t look solely at fruits because, as any good experimenter knows, these could be the result of variables not taken into account (such as the theory, to which I think there is some merit, that already solid teens will progress into spiritual adulthood and those who weren’t strong already will not). We need to think about the concepts underlying the program and see a) if they square with our Tradition and tradition and b) what messages they might be implicitly sending.

My main concerns stem from these. For one, Lifeteen implicitly reinforces the teen mistake that the Church’s liturgical patrimony is boring and irrelevant. “You’re right, it can’t really speak to you, that’s why we’re changing it. This way you’ll have a reason to go.” Wrong! The second big concern is that, just as cue said, it allows teens to judge the liturgy according to the standards of the world instead of understanding it according to the standards of the Faith. Now, since our beliefs cannot escape the influence of our liturgy, both of these factors should work to the detriment of overall Catholic formation. Lifeteen and other similar youth ministries feed teens liturgical milk; I don’t really think we should use that anyway, but if we do we should give the babes the courtesy of a supervised weaning, which I don’t see happening.

 

[Mordocai]

teens need to encounter Christ.
period.
the rest will follow.

 

[Meggie]

I never got the message “the mass is wrong, we’re changing it.” its the same thing they do on Sunday bar the music. Why should I have to listen to songs invented in the 70’s? THEY invented their own music. And don’t go saying that everyone should know and use gregorian chant beucase, while its beautiful its definatly NOT for everyone. It dosn’t reinforce that church is boring, it reinforces the importance of Mass.

Tradition is not the songs we sing. Tradition is not a homily that has a couple of jokes off of Jackie chan movies. Tradition is the Mass that has been done since the beginning of the church and will continue.

This seems to be the main problem you are attacking. As far as the spiritual health of the youth groups, well, the format draws teens in with things they understands as a jumping off point. It get as in depths as the teens can. It would seeme watered down for a well educated teen, but for one struggling to understand it spins their head.

 

[Psalm45_9]

Now we get into the topic of liturgical music. Gregorian Chant is not the only style of music the church has used. Polyphany is another. There were beautiful Mass compistions that strayed from this during the Renaissance which then continued into the Barouqe and Romantic periods. I also love these Masses. But the church re-inforced gregorian chant during the romantic period for a reason. If anyone has heard any Mass settings during the Barouqe and Classical periods, they will notice that they are very symphonic and operetic. Although beautiful and passionate (they speak to me too), they lost the meaning of what Mass is. Which is why the church pulled the plug on such elaborate compistions being made and returned to its musical roots.

Could contemporary music be used at Mass, I suppose it could. But the catch is that it must be appropriate for the liturgy. At lifeteen at our church tends to use the same songs over and over again. Such as “step by step you lead me, and I’ll follow you all of my days.” Or, “it’s a big, big house, with lots and lots of room.” Hey great, it teaches about Jesus, but did any of it emphasis the theme of Mass last Sunday? Me and my pastor both said no to this. The only one that came close to tying in with the transfiguration was, “here I am to worship, here I am to bow down.” I see with Lifeteen that we are entering into how it was during the barouque era. We just just don’t seem to learn from our mistakes.

(I love Barouqe music too, btw.) Most people aren’t used to alternative rock one minute and classical the next.