Does man have a soul?

[Ubenedictus]

Thanks for following up! The basic equation of the spirit to the memory and soul to would be acts is very accurate. And the principles of the soul having free will, the spirit being unchanging, and the spiritual realm being timeless/spaceless/immaterial are all in alignment with this simplicity.

but would be act doesnt really seem to have a personality, it is yet to happen, i would say it even has no substance, so how can it have a will??

They are also proven to exist. There is one extension to consider regarding my understandings: The creation of the soul and spirit occur in the mind of the Creator. Specifically, He thinks of Creation.

this is a beautiful idea, ‘God thinks creation’ i have even heard an explanation that says we are all thought of God, the world is a divine fantasy, it exist in Gods’ mind and when God decides to end that ‘though’ creation would cease to exist; as beautiful as those explanations sound they are also problematic. When we talk about thought we are talking about the immaterial, an idea, if God thinks creation then creation or rather creatures (not even humans) will have no free will. GOD is the controls creatures as man makes his fanasy. The implication is large and im sure it wouldn’t make God look good. I would rather think of creation as a material manifestation of divine wisdom through divine power.

It is during this thoughtful creation that He thinks of what persons, whom are capable of becoming one with His Nature, will freely choose to do.

now i believe that thru all time and eternity God knew, know what is and will be, i sincerly doubt that he thinks. His perfect knowledge allows him to know our end before we are created but i doubt he pre determines our end.

In the instance that a person freely wills an action, the spirit is created because this is what we will do during physical creation, which in turn will make us aware of the memory of us. This extension is not yet provable. However, the main growth point for me is that I now pray harder for my soul to ALWAYS continue to grow closer to God, His Church and His Heavenly Kingdom, and NEVER turn away.

amen

Regarding “Our would be acts aren’t incorruptible…we hardly know what they would be”
This statement verifies free will for any who question it. And considering “…are not incorruptible,” this could more easily be stated as “are corruptible.” This is definitely true! ok, if our would be acts (souls) are corruptible that would directly contradict the catholic church that say the soul is incorruptible.

Regarding “death causing acting to go to zero”
Given that I cannot prove the soul is created in the mind of God without a patient listener and a lot of complicated understandings, I definitely cannot prove that the soul continues after death. The two main proofs, which both initially/simply rely on circular reasoning, are the belief in Jesus Resurrecting, and the belief in a glorified resurrection/nirvana, which is completely necessary in any belief in an after-life.

no arguement here.

Regarding the soul seems to cease existing after death.
Please know that my understanding of the body is somewhat extended. I think God only needs one cell to continue our life. So in death, the complex body of the person passes, however the one cell continues and can be resurrected into another complex body again. So my understandings recognize that the soul does not cease to exist.

do you have proof that a human cell continues existence after death? I would love to hear about your undestanding of the body.

Thank you very much for further discussion!

no, thank you! You have been most kind through the course of this discussion.
Abundance of peace

 

[jochoa]

but would be act doesnt really seem to have a personality, it is yet to happen, i would say it even has no substance, so how can it have a will??

After further consideration, I would like to propose an update to the understanding of soul regarding would be acts. From the perspective of humans, the soul of a person is what s/he will do in the future. From the perspective of God, the soul of a person is what the person is doing in the thought of God, as the distinct co-existing person of the Father. So in consideration of an act by itself, you are correct in that an act, whether past, present, or future, doesn’t have a personality. It is not until an act is associated with a person and his/her intentions, including would be acts, that the act can be said to have a personality.

this is a beautiful idea, ‘God thinks creation’ i have even heard an explanation that says we are all thought of God, the world is a divine fantasy, it exist in Gods’ mind and when God decides to end that ‘though’ creation would cease to exist; as beautiful as those explanations sound they are also problematic. When we talk about thought we are talking about the immaterial, an idea, if God thinks creation then creation or rather creatures (not even humans) will have no free will. GOD is the controls creatures as man makes his fanasy. The implication is large and im sure it wouldn’t make God look good. I would rather think of creation as a material manifestation of divine wisdom through divine power. now i believe that thru all time and eternity God knew, know what is and will be, i sincerly doubt that he thinks. His perfect knowledge allows him to know our end before we are created but i doubt he pre determines our end.

I think my idea is in alignment with yours, however due to wording, it is coming across differently. Please consider the following:
When I say God thinks of what we will freely choose to do, I am saying God observes what we will freely choose to do. But He is observing in thoughtful creation, not physical creation. And since He is God, He is able to observe even what we think and feel. Since He is observing in His thought what we are freely doing, He doesn’t know the future in His thought of what we will freely choose to do. However, since first He had to observe in His thoughts what all is necessary for His Purposeful Creations to become one with His Nature, in order to ensure the purpose for Creation was fulfilled, by the instance of physical creation beginning, God was already observing what we are freely choosing to do many ages into the future from our current physically present time. Therefore, I am attempting to share a method and purpose as to how and why God knows our end before we are created while granting us free will.

ok, if our would be acts (souls) are corruptible that would directly contradict the catholic church that say the soul is incorruptible.

Please consider the updated understanding of soul mentioned earlier, as well as the following:

1. Would you please share more details regarding this teaching?
2. Considering that the soul is the person and not the acts, from my analysis, research, and prayer life, all souls will eventually be led to Heaven. Therefore, I would say that although acts can be corrupted, every soul will eventually freely become perfected because God does not create imperfection neither does He give up on any one of His Creations.

do you have proof that a human cell continues existence after death? I would love to hear about your undestanding of the body.

Regarding the body:
My understanding comes from an understanding of made in God’s Image, along with the Image of the Body of Jesus as the Eucharist and the concept of the only begotten Son with the exact image of the Father, and a vague understanding of mitosis or meiosis, in that our complete body was once a single cell, which both male and female have the exact same image as the Eucharist. This cell replicates several times. Eventually, by some process, we exist as we look. Since our complete body can exist as a single cell, I find it to be a reasonable solution to God being able to keep us alive without sacrificing the purpose for creation.

Regarding proof:
The only proofs I currently have are the logical alignment of biology with what has been written for thousands of years as stated above, and a playful interpretation of an actual person’s family/relative tree, which uses many middle names, translations, and even a couple nicknames to connect with both Biblical and Saint names, and theology of Catholicism.
I am the brother of Jesus and the son of Jesus. I have long been known as the Snake, However, together we are the children of G. G. came from Encarnacion, and we do not know where Encarnacion came from. So to our knowledge, we, the father, son, and brother, came from the Incarnation of G. I am married to Mary. She is amazingly obedient to authority, and I often wonder where she gets it! We have a Godchild named Jesus, and his brother’s name is John. My father, Jesus’s brothers and sister are Little John, Paul, and Mark. He is also good friends with Emmanuel, Micheal, Abel, Gabriel and Rita. My brother, Jesus, parents a daughter, Mary, and is married to Ann. He is also friends with Moses, Michael, and Ishmael. My wife’s mother is Gloria. She is married to Paul. Gloria came from the house of Trinity. One of Gloria’s children is Little Christ, and she married Gregory. One of her good friends is Refuge. Some of my wife’s good friends have been Michael, Luke, Samuel, Christ, and a Nicol-atian. Now my Mother Teresa came from the house of Sostenes. Her mother and sister are Julie and Julie. Early in life, she was known as Dorcas, and her sister is Deborah. One of her sisters married Paul. They had children Aaron and Sarah. Another sister married David. As Father David, his children are Trinity, Joshua, and Joseph as well as Charity and a Nicol-aitian. My mother, Therese’s adopted mother or mother-in-law is Pauline. My mother’s best friend is Mary. My father’s sister, Little John, gave birth to “Riches and Desires”, a “Christ-offering for Adam”, and Joseph. And my father’s brother, Mark, is married to Anna. He has one daughter, Bethany. Now some of my friends are Joseph, John, Steven Timothy, Mathew, Gregory, Ambrose, Anthony, Luke, Michael, Elizabeth Mary, Barnabas, Gabriel, Jeremiah, Cecilia, Adam, Thessalonia, Christ, Micah, Margaret, Elisha, Eugene, Ephrem, James the Taller, and James the Shorter, Eve, Patrick, Nathan, and Zion (who is incredibly God-Smart). Working for Saint Rita, I have had the privilege of teaching Zacarias (who struggled with speaking at all for months), Josiah, Trinity (who comes from the house of Solomon), Luke, Sophia (who was extremely wise at a young age), Eunice, Timothy, Christ, Daniel, Levi, Adam, Eve, Jordan, Bethany, Angel, Jonathan, Jacob, Mark, Matthew, Micheal, Comfort, Sincere, Emmanuel, Joshua, Charity, James, Joseph, Nathaniel, John, Samuel, Isaiah, Micah, Jonas, Jonah, Abram, Noah, Malakai, Roman, Aaron, Abigail, Ada, Adriel, Anna, Benjamin, Caleb, Chloe, Darius, Deborah, Elizabeth, Gabriel, Hannah, Jared, Isaac, Phillip, Hope, Samara, Simon, Tabitha, Isidore, Vincent, Dominic, Frederick, Madeline, Julie, Richard, Diego, Patrick, Zachary, Catherine, Peter, William, Genevieve, Fabian, Christina, Anthony, Adrian, Andrew, Raymond, Elizabeth, Martin, Markel, Gianna, Nicholas, Damien, Lily, as well as Justin. I have also had the pleasure of teaching Ezekiel and Sarai. My fathers have been Fabian, James, Joseph, Michael, Benedict, John, Paul, and David. I regularly commune for worship under Saint Mary along with Jesus, the father and son, Mother Theresa, Mark, Anna, John, Mary, Paul, Matthew, Malakai, Abel, Ezekiel, David, Tomas, and many times we find ourselves dancing like David dances. I received the gifts of Baptism, Marriage, and the yearning to spread God’s Word under Saint Margaret, gift of unity in the Sacred Heart from my God Father, Paul, the gift of Wisdom under Saint Ambrose, and the gift of Music from Saint Cecilia. I also frequently visit the Holy Angels and Saint Joseph. We are from the desert town of the Saints and Angels, which is a quick drive from Christ, the City of Gold, and the Garden of Eden.

Thank you very much for the brilliant food for thought! I look forward to further discussion!

 

[Ubenedictus]

After further consideration, I would like to propose an update to the understanding of soul regarding would be acts. From the perspective of humans, the soul of a person is what s/he will do in the future. From the perspective of God, the soul of a person is what the person is doing in the thought of God, as the distinct co-existing person of the Father. So in consideration of an act by itself, you are correct in that an act, whether past, present, or future, doesn’t have a personality. It is not until an act is associated with a person and his/her intentions, including would be acts, that the act can be said to have a personality.

ok

I think my idea is in alignment with yours, however due to wording, it is coming across differently. Please consider the following:
When I say God thinks of what we will freely choose to do, I am saying God observes what we will freely choose to do. But He is observing in thoughtful creation, not physical creation. And since He is God, He is able to observe even what we think and feel. Since He is observing in His thought what we are freely doing, He doesn’t know the future in His thought of what we will freely choose to do. However, since first He had to observe in His thoughts what all is necessary for His Purposeful Creations to become one with His Nature, in order to ensure the purpose for Creation was fulfilled, by the instance of physical creation beginning, God was already observing what we are freely choosing to do many ages into the future from our current physically present time.

observing, thinking are parts of the learning process, God is said to be ominiscient, i think that exclude thinking from the equation, if from all eternity he knew all thing then i doubt there is a room for thought.

Therefore, I am attempting to share a method and purpose as to how and why God knows our end before we are created while granting us free will.

i see your attempt, i just doubt if it works or maybe i dont understand it well.

Please consider the updated understanding of soul mentioned earlier, as well as the following:

1. Would you please share more details regarding this teaching?

Let me see…ok. The summa theologica has this argument concerning the incorruptibility of the soul. Take a look newadvent.org/summa/1075.htm#article6

1. Considering that the soul is the person and not the acts, from my analysis, research, and prayer life, all souls will eventually be led to Heaven. Therefore, I would say that although acts can be corrupted, every soul will eventually freely become perfected because God does not create imperfection neither does He give up on any one of His Creations.

i cant remember the name of this opinion but im pretty sure it has been rejected by the church, not all soul would reach heaven, some would go to everlasting shame. You remember the teaching on hell, right?

Regarding the body:
My understanding comes from an understanding of made in God’s Image, along with the Image of the Body of Jesus as the Eucharist and the concept of the only begotten Son with the exact image of the Father, and a vague understanding of mitosis or meiosis, in that our complete body was once a single cell,

i doubt it was just 1 cell, i think its 2 cells, the spermcell and ovum.

which both male and female have the exact same image as the Eucharist. This cell replicates several times. Eventually, by some process, we exist as we look. Since our complete body can exist as a single cell, I find it to be a reasonable solution to God being able to keep us alive without sacrificing the purpose for creation.

so you think the purpose of creation is sacrifice if we admit that man dies completely? I don’t see it that way, please explain.

Regarding proof:
The only proofs I currently have are the logical alignment of biology with what has been written for thousands of years as stated above, and a playful interpretation of an actual person’s family/relative tree, which uses many middle names, translations, and even a couple nicknames to connect with both Biblical and Saint names, and theology of Catholicism.
I am the brother of Jesus and the son of Jesus. I have long been known as the Snake, However, together we are the children of G. G. came from Encarnacion, and we do not know where Encarnacion came from. So to our knowledge, we, the father, son, and brother, came from the Incarnation of G. I am married to Mary. She is amazingly obedient to authority, and I often wonder where she gets it!

wow! You lost at some point, but how does it support the idea that the ‘dead’ still have a single living cell?
Thanks

 

[oval]

I’m getting into this double slit quantum experiment now as a new hooby and have a very very rough shaping which has given me confidence that something very rational can be demonstrated and therefore is worth spending time. The soul idea is connected to awareness, so if we can at least show that the universe did not come about, out of an absence or voidness of a determined conscious awareness, it would advantage the soul argument greatly I think.
Ive got a ways to go because I only downloaded the idea in the experiment last week, but it may well be that no matter what, relative to our perception, and our comprehensions in what awareness represents, that at least “1” determined conscious aware act was necessary somewhere for the universe to be in existence. This experiment above mentioned, dabbles in time, determinism, associations, negotiations, gravity,many many contributing properties for consideration, which means a very very careful patient non aggressive approach. Ive learned that if the detector is erased, before observing, the outcome will be as though the detector was not present. The best way to translate anything is with a clear non influenced mind.

 

[jochoa]

ok

observing, thinking are parts of the learning process, God is said to be ominiscient, i think that exclude thinking from the equation, if from all eternity he knew all thing then i doubt there is a room for thought. i see your attempt, i just doubt if it works or maybe i dont understand it well.

At this point, in order to gain a greater understanding of the mysteries, you must be willing to define God greater because you are absolutely correct in that God is All-Knowing. However, God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And from Scripture, one can arrive at the conclusion that only the Father is All-knowing. So the questions become why the distinctions, why only the Father, why does the Son not know everything? There must be a purpose.

Let me see…ok. The summa theologica has this argument concerning the incorruptibility of the soul. Take a look newadvent.org/summa/1075.htm#article6
i cant remember the name of this opinion but im pretty sure it has been rejected by the church, not all soul would reach heaven, some would go to everlasting shame. You remember the teaching on hell, right?

Thank you very much for sharing this teaching. Here is my consideration for justifying alignment with this teaching, please share which of the following understandings you perceive as not in alignment with Catholicism:

1. God creates each and every human for Him.
2. Only perfected humans can get into the fullness of the Kingdom of Heaven.
3. Perfection includes the lack of corruption.
4. No human soul is corruptible.
5. Every single knee shall bend at some point in the future.
6. To declare God is all-knowing without distinction, then God has forgiven all because the Son forgave all.

From these Catholic Givens, wouldn’t this indicate that some time, although it may be ages, in the future, all human souls will make it to Heaven?

i doubt it was just 1 cell, i think its 2 cells, the spermcell and ovum. so you think the purpose of creation is sacrifice if we admit that man dies completely? I don’t see it that way, please explain.

Please know my friend, I thoroughly appreciate the discussion. I apologize for the difficult time sharing ideas via text only. Thank you for your patience with me!

Perhaps there is a distinction between a human cell versus the egg/sperm cell? When the two unite, there is now a human life in one cell body.

Regarding sacrificing the purpose
Please consider the following: I am confident the purpose for Creation is to create an everlasting society of a limitless number of true friends, given the Creator gets to participate as a friend in the society, and the Creator initially exists in complete solitude. Given this purpose, if humans die off, then the purpose for Creation is sacrificed.
Would you please share what do you consider the purpose of Creation to be?

wow! You lost at some point, but how does it support the idea that the ‘dead’ still have a single living cell?
Thanks

it is a playful concept of the resurrection of the dead, in alignment with how each person came into being.

Thank you very much for the extended discussion! I greatly appreciate you sharing where you perceive me as out of alignment with the Church! I look forward to more sharing of ideas!

 

[oval]

The electron in the double slit experiment is in a superposition on a universal wave…it is in an undetermined position because it is in a timeless dimension, as it is without measure. when approaching the slits gravity and the existence of the obstacle in each different attempt in individual electrons shot through( in that attempt) determine which slit, both slits or no slit. Time space changes every moment relative to the set up as the solar system is in constant movement through time space. So the end result express’s on the board behind a time space wave like function…if the detector is installed it represents consciousness as it is fixed in time, it is negotiating time…the electron is influenced by the negotiation and awakens in time without the undetermined property and either goes through one slit or the other, the wave function collapse’s because the electron is now determined…if the detector is erased after the experiment the wave function still appears behind on the board because the electron was not existing in time relative to its own potencial determination, causing the illusion or reality of two different times. When the observer looks up at the board whether the data is erased, or in effect…at this moment only time space is able to express the two independent realities at a unified state in time…so when you look up at the board time-space jumps in place as both electron and observer are experiencing mutually determined realities. The slits themselves “represent” what ever…"started this creation…they are representations and simply mimic a determination revealing the texture of the time space setting…because a detector is a determined manipulation which express’s a determined time space negotiation the effect in the setting uncovers and shows the existence of consciousness…the question then becomes, how could a universe come to be without at least “1” conscious aware thought in order to manifest the implication of determinism in time…? therefore it is highly suspect that consciousness is a potential interference mechanism in the order of the always changing moment to moment time space due to gravity and motion…so we have wave vibes coming off our minds in every moment which is self determining in time allowing for the conscious experience. The conscious experience is perpetually rebounding off the echo of that first conscious determined necessary act …I don’t see how this could be refuted, maybe mis understood but there is just too much evidence in all these countless wave experiments…i downloaded the split wave idea last week to see what all the talk was about in these things and no doubt creation is all about the wave function in the existence of itself…and then mass, water, particles simply express or template the nature of existence.

 

[Ubenedictus]

At this point, in order to gain a greater understanding of the mysteries, you must be willing to define God greater because you are absolutely correct in that God is All-Knowing. However, God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And from Scripture, one can arrive at the conclusion that only the Father is All-knowing. So the questions become why the distinctions, why only the Father, why does the Son not know everything? There must be a purpose.

here i totally disagree, the church since the time of the church fathers have been explaining and reexplaining that christ and the holyspirit are all knowing. Infinite knowledge doesnt belong to the father alone.

Thank you very much for sharing this teaching. Here is my consideration for justifying alignment with this teaching, please share which of the following understandings you perceive as not in alignment with Catholicism:

1. God creates each and every human for Him.

true

1. Only perfected humans can get into the fullness of the Kingdom of Heaven.

true

1. Perfection includes the lack of corruption.

1. No human soul is corruptible.

true

1. Every single knee shall bend at some point in the future.

hmm…true, i dont believe every soul will repent and be admitted into heaven

1. To declare God is all-knowing without distinction, then God has forgiven all because the Son forgave all.

i dont understand the logic, beside where does scripture say christ granted effective forgivenes to all.

From these Catholic Givens, wouldn’t this indicate that some time, although it may be ages, in the future, all human souls will make it to Heaven?

no it doesnt, your idea probably negates the teaching that hell is eternal.

Please know my friend, I thoroughly appreciate the discussion. I apologize for the difficult time sharing ideas via text only. Thank you for your patience with me!

to be sincere there was no need for me to excercise patience, your posts are very charitable and you reply early most times. I should be the person saying thankyou.

Perhaps there is a distinction between a human cell versus the egg/sperm cell? When the two unite, there is now a human life in one cell body.

Regarding sacrificing the purpose
Please consider the following: I am confident the purpose for Creation is to create an everlasting society of a limitless number of true friends, given the Creator gets to participate as a friend in the society, and the Creator initially exists in complete solitude. Given this purpose, if humans die off, then the purpose for Creation is sacrificed.

if the human spirit is a ‘personalty’ that doesnt die off with the human body then the purpose of creation as stated above wont be sacrificed. Does that make sense?

Would you please share what do you consider the purpose of Creation to be?

i think in essence my thoughts on the purpose of creation is same with yours, i borrow from the work of dun scotus, i think the basic idea is the same. The only difference would be that mine have more theological baggage which may spin the discussion off on a tangent.

it is a playful concept of the resurrection of the dead, in alignment with how each person came into being.

it is playful and complex, i still find it hard to get the links.

Thank you very much for the extended discussion! I greatly appreciate you sharing where you perceive me as out of alignment with the Church! I look forward to more sharing of ideas!

you’re most welcome

 

[Ubenedictus]

Wow! Beautiful

The electron in the double slit experiment is in a superposition on a universal wave…it is in an undetermined position because it is in a timeless dimension, as it is without measure. when approaching the slits gravity and the existence of the obstacle in each different attempt in individual electrons shot through( in that attempt) determine which slit, both slits or no slit. Time space changes every moment relative to the set up as the solar system is in constant movement through time space. So the end result express’s on the board behind a time space wave like function…if the detector is installed it represents consciousness as it is fixed in time, it is negotiating time…the electron is influenced by the negotiation and awakens in time without the undetermined property and either goes through one slit or the other, the wave function collapse’s because the electron is now determined…if the detector is erased after the experiment the wave function still appears behind on the board because the electron was not existing in time relative to its own potencial determination, causing the illusion or reality of two different times. When the observer looks up at the board whether the data is erased, or in effect…at this moment only time space is able to express the two independent realities at a unified state in time…so when you look up at the board time-space jumps in place as both electron and observer are experiencing mutually determined realities. The slits themselves “represent” what ever…"started this creation…they are representations and simply mimic a determination revealing the texture of the time space setting…because a detector is a determined manipulation which express’s a determined time space negotiation the effect in the setting uncovers and shows the existence of consciousness…the question then becomes, how could a universe come to be without at least “1” conscious aware thought in order to manifest the implication of determinism in time…? therefore it is highly suspect that consciousness is a potential interference mechanism in the order of the always changing moment to moment time space due to gravity and motion…so we have wave vibes coming off our minds in every moment which is self determining in time allowing for the conscious experience. The conscious experience is perpetually rebounding off the echo of that first conscious determined necessary act …I don’t see how this could be refuted, maybe mis understood but there is just too much evidence in all these countless wave experiments…i downloaded the split wave idea last week to see what all the talk was about in these things and no doubt creation is all about the wave function in the existence of itself…and then mass, water, particles simply express or template the nature of existence.

it seem you are in the sciences, you explanation was ‘sciency’ but to the point. most atheist would argue that time and infact the world, no matter how complex it seem, happened by chance. Please can you provide me with a link on the above experiment?
Thanks

 

[oval]

Wow! Beautiful
it seem you are in the sciences, you explanation was ‘sciency’ but to the point. most atheist would argue that time and infact the world, no matter how complex it seem, happened by chance. Please can you provide me with a link on the above experiment?
Thanks

This is only unprof opinion

Thanks I’m not in the science’s and enjoy trying to figure things out.

here is the link…youtube.com/watch?v=tu57B1v0SzI

They call it superposition apparently, I’m calling it an undetermined state without time, the electron exists but is not participating in time space, it is in the underneath, there is no measured connection, no time. a constant void of time until it is interrupted, measured and then immediatly reflects back in no time superposition until something else takes a chunk of its energy …I think this is how consciousness works, transforming from nontime to time every moment…reflecting off what is presented to it in memory or other.

so the single electron approaches the slit board, an obstruction and a gravity influenced time space determined obstacle…When it pass’s through it assumes a position on a wave like proximity representing existence and a moment in time space "due to the determined slit board…it is undetermined again but changed its position representing the obstruction (board) and "changed time space giving varied positions after going through the slit for every shot, thats what gives the wave like result. and hits the final marking board …collectively demonstrating a wave, but the wave is only representing the fabric of reality, not a wave as in the water. which mimics as well, like a template…but in time spce we can visually see the water wave because its a determined reality in time space…so theres no electron split and bouncing off one another in this idea, like the water example… If its measured with the detector, just before passing through the detector fully determines time for the electron, it pass’s through the slit and shows the effect of the full time-space determination in time caused by the detector. If the detector is erased afterwards and the experimenter looks up, somehow the electron has returned to assuming the wave on the marked board(even though measured

so it seems like a trick but, time only can exist and then not exist for the electron’s journey, back and forth, from determined in time for a moment to non determined, no time…I think this also comply s with the constant feature. There is no time relative to the electron from when it is measured by the detector, until it hits the marking board, whatever the experimenter does in this time has no relevance to time with respects to the electron so if he erase’s …its as though he erase’s immediatly once reecorded as though the electron is in slow slow motion, but not even that, its not time equiped. …so all the electron can do is follow the +++ instructions in time which seem like +… +… +
to us…so when we look up…we see the end result of +++ regardless of our determined experience in +… +… + with what ever trickery we want to try and install in between for effect

anyway thanks for asking and I know my rough outline included a necessary “1” determined conscious moment and thats fine, still holding on to the suggestion…the last few days Ive been very very focused in my free time in debunking these strange sounds in the world I just heard about…I am fully convinced due to the Manitoba occurrence that they are human voice’s and someone has figured out a way to send sound rockets out from distant lands…using thunder like mechanisms broadcasting the sounds… maybe an echo effect and I notice there is always clouds around…the sounds are all A based and I detected in the AAAaaaa overlapAAaaa an Arabic fluctuation in tonal bridging…very evident, Ive got good hearing…its not a french nasal overlap, meditran…it is Arabic…plus all the sound rockets …none in the UAK…trajectory I’m thinking…the other sounds are contrived, like rubbing the needle on the arm of the old record player…no variance in the two only styles…therefore no natural nature…nothing is blended, its blunt and manipulated in sound. I will ch back in a few days and try to include the whole idea…maybe i should use some diagrams or something

.

 

[oval]

Ok skip the last part of last paragraph above… I have concluded that research and it is as I suspected a hoax, for some reason it really really bothered me, I love the night sky and it turned the table on it into something very very unnatural and un-welcoming until resolved.

 

[jochoa]

here i totally disagree, the church since the time of the church fathers have been explaining and reexplaining that christ and the holyspirit are all knowing. Infinite knowledge doesnt belong to the father alone.

Thank you very much for further discussion, my friend! Please consider the following line of thinking regarding a distinction between All-Knowing and Infinite Knowledge:
If it is true that we live forever, then we have infinite knowledge because our knowledge database grows from moment to moment in living. Therefore, I perceive my understandings as in-alignment with the Catholic Teaching in that Infinite Knowledge does not belong to the Father alone.
Is there room for interpreting the Catechism as equating All-Knowing with All-Wise?
Would you please explain further details?

hmm…true, i dont believe every soul will repent and be admitted into heaven

Please consider the following concepts: Do you ever pray the Fatima Prayer, “Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell, and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy.”? If you believe not every soul will repent and be admitted into heaven, then is it possible to genuinely request God to lead all souls to Heaven, given in essence, you have predetermined not all souls will be led to heaven?

i dont understand the logic, beside where does scripture say christ granted effective forgivenes to all.

The logic is based upon the above concept of genuinely believing that what is requested will be granted. Since the Son requested that the Father forgive us, the Son had to genuinely believe/know that the Father would forgive us. In order for the Son to believe and request that the Father forgive us, He had to have genuinely forgiven us.
So the logic follows that if there is no distinction between how and why the Son is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and the 3 co-existing persons are God, then the act of the Son praying for the forgiveness of sins concludes that God genuinely forgave all sins.

no it doesnt, your idea probably negates the teaching that hell is eternal.

My idea does not negate the teaching that hell is eternal. To simply share this, please consider the following:
Throughout the course of Jesus’ Life, He went to hell for 3 days.
From the perspective and consideration of only Jesus’ Life, hell is not eternal because He never has to go there again. Therefore the existence of hell no longer matters to Jesus, and essentially does not exist.
In other words, from the perspective of one person’s life, hell is not eternal because God will lead each soul to Heaven, especially those in most need of His Mercy.
From the perspective and consideration of humanity, hell will always exist because there will always be the Creation of additional free-willed persons which must learn to freely choose to do God’s Will. In the process of learning, there will be times in which we do not freely choose to do God’s Will, in order to discover that God’s Will is Absolutely the Best. And any time we are not acting in oneness with God’s Will, we are experiencing Hell. Therefore, Hell will always exist.

if the human spirit is a ‘personalty’ that doesnt die off with the human body then the purpose of creation as stated above wont be sacrificed. Does that make sense?

This definitely makes sense. And in my analysis and studies, I have had similar thinking. During similar thoughts, I questioned, if only the “spiritual” is necessary and not the physical body, then why did God bother to create the unnecessary step of the physical body? In my analysis, given that I equate the spirit of a person with the concept of thinking about, or observing within the mind, a person’s actions. I realized that although incredible thoughts and experiences can occur, closing my eyes and thinking of incredible experiences in no way compares to the joy which comes from physically experiencing the thoughtful experience. Therefore, a physical body became necessary in my quest to understand God.

i think in essence my thoughts on the purpose of creation is same with yours, i borrow from the work of dun scotus, i think the basic idea is the same. The only difference would be that mine have more theological baggage which may spin the discussion off on a tangent.

I am extremely delighted to have met you, my friend! Your “theological baggage” helps me tremendously in my goal to ensure my understanding and practice of faith is in alignment with Catholicism…at least from my analysis

it is playful and complex, i still find it hard to get the links.

Thanks for taking the time to consider! It definitely far fetched!

Thank you very much for all your time and consideration! I look forward to further discussion!

 

[mdisse]

who say those stories werent made up? Who say they are true? Besides a soul is usually described as immaterial how come some people can see it?
Peace

Well for example, two people in my family saw somebody die at the same time, and something left their body that looked like them. Also, other unrelated family members saw something in their old house at different times down to the exact detail without the 2nd person knowing until afterwards what the 1st person saw. But I have to ask because this just came to me, is it possible that these 2 senarios, even though and if both people saw the exact same thing, was just a mass hallutcionation?

 

[Ubenedictus]

This is only unprof opinion

Thanks I’m not in the science’s and enjoy trying to figure things out.

here is the link…youtube.com/watch?v=tu57B1v0SzI

They call it superposition apparently, I’m calling it an undetermined state without time, the electron exists but is not participating in time space, it is in the underneath, there is no measured connection, no time. a constant void of time until it is interrupted, measured and then immediatly reflects back in no time superposition until something else takes a chunk of its energy …I think this is how consciousness works, transforming from nontime to time every moment…reflecting off what is presented to it in memory or other.

so the single electron approaches the slit board, an obstruction and a gravity influenced time space determined obstacle…When it pass’s through it assumes a position on a wave like proximity representing existence and a moment in time space "due to the determined slit board…it is undetermined again but changed its position representing the obstruction (board) and "changed time space giving varied positions after going through the slit for every shot, thats what gives the wave like result. and hits the final marking board …collectively demonstrating a wave, but the wave is only representing the fabric of reality, not a wave as in the water. which mimics as well, like a template…but in time spce we can visually see the water wave because its a determined reality in time space…so theres no electron split and bouncing off one another in this idea, like the water example… If its measured with the detector, just before passing through the detector fully determines time for the electron, it pass’s through the slit and shows the effect of the full time-space determination in time caused by the detector. If the detector is erased afterwards and the experimenter looks up, somehow the electron has returned to assuming the wave on the marked board(even though measured

so it seems like a trick but, time only can exist and then not exist for the electron’s journey, back and forth, from determined in time for a moment to non determined, no time…I think this also comply s with the constant feature. There is no time relative to the electron from when it is measured by the detector, until it hits the marking board, whatever the experimenter does in this time has no relevance to time with respects to the electron so if he erase’s …its as though he erase’s immediatly once reecorded as though the electron is in slow slow motion, but not even that, its not time equiped. …so all the electron can do is follow the +++ instructions in time which seem like +… +… +
to us…so when we look up…we see the end result of +++ regardless of our determined experience in +… +… + with what ever trickery we want to try and install in between for effect

anyway thanks for asking and I know my rough outline included a necessary “1” determined conscious moment and thats fine, still holding on to the suggestion…the last few days Ive been very very focused in my free time in debunking these strange sounds in the world I just heard about…I am fully convinced due to the Manitoba occurrence that they are human voice’s and someone has figured out a way to send sound rockets out from distant lands…using thunder like mechanisms broadcasting the sounds… maybe an echo effect and I notice there is always clouds around…the sounds are all A based and I detected in the AAAaaaa overlapAAaaa an Arabic fluctuation in tonal bridging…very evident, Ive got good hearing…its not a french nasal overlap, meditran…it is Arabic…plus all the sound rockets …none in the UAK…trajectory I’m thinking…the other sounds are contrived, like rubbing the needle on the arm of the old record player…no variance in the two only styles…therefore no natural nature…nothing is blended, its blunt and manipulated in sound. I will ch back in a few days and try to include the whole idea…maybe i should use some diagrams or something

.

certainly this is the type of stuff scientist would be argueing about in the next decade. Thank very much for d information.

 

[Ubenedictus]

Ok skip the last part of last paragraph above… I have concluded that research and it is as I suspected a hoax, for some reason it really really bothered me, I love the night sky and it turned the table on it into something very very unnatural and un-welcoming until resolved.

ok, no problem

 

[oval]

thanks and now I feel that I don’t want to talk about this area of existence …plus the idea that may have caught your eye didn’t have anything to do with my curiosity and was only a side observation…so apologies for getting into the idea relative to the thread topic…anyway have a good weekend for sure and I always enjoy reading your entries.