Does mortal sin "kill" adoption?

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TommyWommy

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If I commit mortal sin, does God “un-adopt” me as His son, or am I just a dead son? What exactly am I walking away from if I sin mortally? Is it like the prodigal son whose father stood and waited for him to come home? Still a son, but lost?

I’m asking partly to help me respond to OSAS proponents who would argue that since adoption can’t be reversed, salvation is sealed.

I’ve heard it preached many times: “It doesn’t matter WHAT I do, I’m still His son! And when the Father looks at me, all he sees is His son! And at the Judgement Seat of Christ, (1Cor 3:15) all my bad works will be burned up, but I’ll still be saved!”
 
God is our true Father, not our adoptive one. Where does this concept of adoption come from?
 
You are never un-adopted by the Father. But, like the prodigal son who chooses to leave his Father, you can either choose to return to him or not. The Father does not handcuff the son and drag him back unwillingly.
 
JimG said:
You are never un-adopted by the Father. But, like the prodigal son who chooses to leave his Father, you can either choose to return to him or not. The Father does not handcuff the son and drag him back unwillingly.
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Ok, then it sounds like mortal sin basically turns me into a “dead” son until I am reconciled and reborn through the sacrament of reconciliation. Baptism is where I am adopted, and reconciliation is where I am raised from the dead should mortal sin kill me. Sound good?
 
TommyWommy said:
Ok, then it sounds like mortal sin basically turns me into a “dead” son until I am reconciled and reborn through the sacrament of reconciliation. Baptism is where I am adopted, and reconciliation is where I am raised from the dead should mortal sin kill me. Sound good?
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Analogically speaking… yes 🙂
 
You are still His son. The prodigal son is a perfect example of a how one becomes a “dead son”, or a “disinherited son”.

From a Catholic standpoint, human fatherhood is a good model of what God’s divine fatherhood is like. A father is obviously much more forgiving with his children than with his employees. If an employee stole $50 dollars from his employer, he’d be fired and maybe even turned over to the police and that would be the end of the relationship.

If a child did that to his dad, he’d be severely chastised and grounded, but the relationship would remain. If the child repented, the dad would be happy for him and the police would never get involved at any point. Certainly, by the law, the boy was guilty, but it remains an in-house thing because of the father-son relationship.

But there are things that the boy could do to get him kicked out. If he continued to remain unrepentant and steal more and more sums of money, or if he committed some still worse act, like beating his brother half to death, the father would be forced to kick him out and even turn him over to the police, even though it would greatly pain him to do so. Of course, by the law the boy would be guilty. The boy would also be disinherited because who would lavish such a wonderful inheritance on a lazy, rebellious son like that?

But of course, at any point the boy finally decided to repent and come home, the father would take him back. So I guess there’s two things going on. There’s the spiritual living → spiritual dead dynamic that runs along side the inherited → disinherited. They both result from committing a mortal sin. A mortal sin is one so bad that God has no choice but to turn you over to the law for judgment.

The model of fatherhood is also useful is understanding how Catholic can “merit” heaven. We can never legally “earn” heaven (strict merit) like an employee because we can only give back God what he gave us and because we’re all transgressors of the law and thus guilty and deserving of death. But when we become children of God, we can be rewarded by our Father for doing his will. That’s what fathers do, they reward their children for doing good, lavishing their children with far more than they would legally deserve. Fathers are delighted when they see their children actively participating in the exchange of love and (with the father’s help and guidance) doing the father’s will.
 
Someone once gave me this analogy

When you sin you are digging a hole for yourself and Salvation is a ladder that has been given to you to get out of the hole…the more serious your sin, the deeper that you have dug the hole…And no hole is deep enough for you to not be saved…But the deeper you get the longer is the journey up…Salvation is attained through true repentance and good works along with the faith in Christ who has given you the ladder to make salvation possible…While it is not upto us to judge how deep is too deep, God can make what we think is impossible possible…And he is merciful…He will not turn his back on us if we truly repented for our sins and put our trust in him…We just need to trust him and get out of the hole as soon as possible instead of digging deeper and taking salvation for granted.
 
Another pertinent analogy is the one Jesus Himself used - He is the Vine, we are the branches. If we remain connected to the Vine, and accept the pruning of the Vinedresser, we bear fruit. If we cut ourselves off from the Vine, we wither and die. But - and here we go to St. Paul, who was specifically speaking to Gentile Christians, but the analogy holds - we have been grafted on to the Vine (Israel, in Paul’s analogy, having grown on the Vine but been cut off because of their rejection of Jesus). If we sin, we can be cut away. And they (Israel) can be grafted back on.

Mortal sin cuts us off the Vine. Reconciliation grafts us back on.
Venial sin doesn’t cut us from the Vine but it damages our connection, and if that happens often enough, we may break off.
 
NHInsider said:
Another pertinent analogy is the one Jesus Himself used - He is the Vine, we are the branches. If we remain connected to the Vine, and accept the pruning of the Vinedresser, we bear fruit. If we cut ourselves off from the Vine, we wither and die. But - and here we go to St. Paul, who was specifically speaking to Gentile Christians, but the analogy holds - we have been grafted on to the Vine (Israel, in Paul’s analogy, having grown on the Vine but been cut off because of their rejection of Jesus). If we sin, we can be cut away. And they (Israel) can be grafted back on.

Mortal sin cuts us off the Vine. Reconciliation grafts us back on.
Venial sin doesn’t cut us from the Vine but it damages our connection, and if that happens often enough, we may break off.
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Indeed. So, God grafts us on, but we cut ourselves off. Although, it’s strange to imagine a branch removing itself from a vine. Or, does God do the removing because of the condition of the branch (dead)? (Am I trying to carry this analogy too far?)🤷
 
TommyWommy said:
Indeed. So, God grafts us on, but we cut ourselves off. Although, it’s strange to imagine a branch removing itself from a vine. Or, does God do the removing because of the condition of the branch (dead)? (Am I trying to carry this analogy too far?)🤷
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Jesus has the answer for you.

See John 15:1-6

" I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine grower. He takes away every branch in me that does not bear fruit, and everyone that does he prunes so that it bears more fruit. You are already pruned because of the word that I spoke to you. Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned."
 
Capta(name removed by moderator)icard said:
Jesus has the answer for you.

See John 15:1-6

" I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine grower. He takes away every branch in me that does not bear fruit, and everyone that does he prunes so that it bears more fruit. You are already pruned because of the word that I spoke to you. Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned."
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Right. 👍 Helps to read through it, eh. 🙂
 
TommyWommy said:
If I commit mortal sin, does God “un-adopt” me as His son, or am I just a dead son? What exactly am I walking away from if I sin mortally? Is it like the prodigal son whose father stood and waited for him to come home? Still a son, but lost?

I’m asking partly to help me respond to OSAS proponents who would argue that since adoption can’t be reversed, salvation is sealed.

I’ve heard it preached many times: “It doesn’t matter WHAT I do, I’m still His son! And when the Father looks at me, all he sees is His son! And at the Judgement Seat of Christ, (1Cor 3:15) all my bad works will be burned up, but I’ll still be saved!”
Click to expand...
Ask these people whether they believe in having to repent each time they commit a mortal sin after their baptism. There actually are fundamentalist Christians who believe that repenting of all our sins past, present, and future on the occasion of baptism is sufficient as long as we personally believe that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Saviour who was “punished” for our sins. We can no longer be punished, since Christ alone has made perfect satisfaction for us to the Father. But this satisfaction only applies to those of us who believe in the merits of our Lord’s passion and death. St. Paul has warned us against those who will come and “preach a new Gospel”. :confused:

PAX :heaven:
 
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