Does neuroscience obviate the concept of soul?

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I would suggest that you cannot reconcile the operations of the brain to the soul because no one knows what the soul is. You’ll be best served simply by studying the brain.
Those who believe in a transcendent Pure Spirit without restrictions know what a soul is even if they cannot express it in human vocabulary. They would also know what an anatomy, which includes the neural system, is when it decomposes. 🙂
 
Thomas and other medieval thinkers seemed to suggest that was comprised of “volition”, and other definable properties which might cause someone to be sent to heaven or hell. Yet in the 21st century all of these propertie seem to me to be accountable for by physical processes. Volition to act in one way or another can be affected by cerebrial diseases and removal of portions of the brain. Hence, volition, fault, responsibility and one’s ultimate fate becomes subject to factors outside of one’s own self. So Thomas’ view that can’t be right.
But do these factors make volition deterministic? I doubt it. Even if they do, it would just mean that a person* under those conditions *would have a compromised free will . It says nothing about the free will of people who have not had these issues.
 
brain and mind are one but they represent two different, separate systems of structure underlying the unity of human experience

in a similar fashion, the soul, which “operates the brain”, forms part of the unity, but remains independent.
So, if you just examine physical processes that is all you will find;
it appears as if everything is going by itself, when it isn’t.
that’s how it looks when we look at the brain now, but with sufficient technology, we could eventually get to the point where we understand the complete workings of the brain. At that point, we will see a break in the normal physical laws, in which case the soul does exist and controls the brain, or else we will not, which will mean that no soul can be interacting with the brain. In order for the brain to be used by the soul, the soul has to cause brain states.
 

From outside the conscious mind of another there is no direct access to the inside experienced content by observing the brain.

A search of one’s mind will never give a direct experience of one’s own brain cells or their electro-chemical processes and multi-level networking.
From the inside by observing my own consciousness there is no direct access to the observable brain and its neural electro-chemical processes.
guardian.co.uk/science/2012/jan/31/mind-reading-program-brain-words

Anybody wants to guess how long till we have a capability to read our thoughts?
 
guardian.co.uk/science/2012/jan/31/mind-reading-program-brain-words

Anybody wants to guess how long till we have a capability to read our thoughts?
guardian.co.uk/science/2012/jan/31/mind-reading-program-brain-words

Anybody wants to guess how long till we have a capability to read our thoughts?
I wouldn’t hold my breath.

This study parallels a similar one regarding visual stimuli: the technique only works while the sense is being stimulated.

Re visual stimuli, blood flow in the visual cortex (highly localized in the brain) is measured by fMRI while the subject is watching the movie. A computer with a visual feed creates a formula that correlates what it sees with the blood flow patterns in the subject seeing the movie. Last, it uses the formula with only the fMRI data and no visual feed to project what the subject is presently seeing.

Here is the published study.

Whereas the areas of the brain that process direct sense stimuli are very localized or modular (the visual cortex, auditory cortex), cognitive functions (e.g., language, perception, memory, attention, intelligence) are not the same. They involve multilevel networking throughout various regions of the brain including within the prefrontal cortex.

Further reading posted below.
 
Fuster notes “whereas the the modular paradigm has been most helpful to clarify the neural basis of sensations, it is inadequate to clarify the central substrates of perception and memory.” “It is becoming increasingly evident that cognitive information transcends any of the traditional subdivisions of the cortex by structural and functional criteria (e.g., column, cytoarchitectonic area, thalamic projection, or receptive field).” (p., ix) He goes on to note: “The result of that encounter between unproven assumption [modularity] and partial evidence [from sensation] is the notion that there is a cortical region, or module, for every cognitive function. This notion has caused endless confusion. It is a serious impediment to the study of the brain mechanisms of cognition.” (x)
[Joaquín M. Fuster, MD, PhD, *Cortex and Mind. (Oxford University Press, 2003), pp. ix-x]

“No cognitive function has a fully dedicated cortical area or network.”
Joaquín M. Fuster, MD, PhD, Cortex and Mind. (Oxford University Press, 2003), p. 56

Its [prefrontal cortex] boundaries have been traced in various ways, depending on the methodology and criteria of definition. Yet, whatever the demarcation there are hardly any grounds for a priori regarding this part of the cerebral cortex as a structural entity with a unitary function. On morphological grounds alone, the anatomical complexity of the prefrontal cortex, especially in higher animals, makes its functional homogeneity implausible. Indeed, the behavioral study of animals with selective lesions of this cortex have ruled out such homogeneity. Furthermore, a unitary role for the prefrontal cortex is also inconsistent with clinical findings in patients with injuries to this part of the brain. Yet at some level, as we shall see, there is a synergy if not unity in prefrontal functions.
The precise nature of the apparently multiple functions of the prefrontal cortex is still to some extent unclear . . .
The prefrontal cortex is also connected to many other cerebral structures.
[Joaquín M. Fuster, *The Prefrontal Cortex. 4th ed., Boston: Elsevier Ltd., 2008, pp. 1, 2]

“The concept of diaschisis is that damage to the brain deprives other intact regions of normal afferent inflows from the injured area. Thus a lesion can cause dysfunction of a remote area because of its strong connections with that other area. For example, a PET study of a patient with amnesia demonstrated that a stroke damaging the septum, within the basal forebrain, resulted in decreased activity remotely in the hippocampus. Even though the hippocampus was not damaged directly, decreased activity resulted because it is anatomically connected to the septum via the fornix. Determination of the neural substrate of the patient’s memory loss in this case would be difficult. Thus patients who are tested at the acute stage are problematic for studies attempting to link structure and function. . . .
When tested later after injury, patient’s recovery of function may have plateaued and brain plasticity and reorganization may have occurred. At this point in time it cannot be assumed that intact regions of the brain will function in the same way after injury as before.”
[Patricia A. Reuter-Lorenz, et al., eds., *The Cognitive Neuroscience of Mind: A Tribute to Michael S. Gazzaniga. (Cambridge, MA: the MIT Press, 2010), p. 212.]

Why is causality so hard to demonstrate?
“What are the limitations of the cognitive neuropsychological approach? First, it is assumed that the cognitive performance of brain damaged patients provides direct evidence of the impact of brain damage on previously normal cognitive systems. However some brain damaged patients may have had somewhat unusual cognitive systems prior to brain damage. In addition, some impact of brain damage on cognitive functioning may be camouflaged because patient’s develop compensatory strategies to help them cope with their brain damage.
Second, the whole cognitive neuropsychological approach is very complex, because there are very often large differences among individuals having broadly similar brain damage. As Banich (1997, p. 55) pointed out, such individuals ‘typically vary widely in age, socioeconomic status and educational background. Prior to brain damage, these individuals may have had diverse life experiences. Afterward, their life experience vary widely too, depending on the type of rehabilitation they receive, their attitudes toward therapy and recovery and their social support network.’
Third, the modular approach may exaggerate the extent to which cognitive functions are localized within the brain (Farah, 1994). As Banich (1997, p. 52) noted: ‘the brain is comprised of about 50 million interconnected neurons. Therefore, even complex cognitive functions for which a modular description seems apt rely on a number of interconnected brain regions or systems.’
[p. 7] Fourth, the study of brain damaged patients can lead to underestimates of the brain areas involved in performing any given cognitive function. The lesion method generally only permits identification of those brain areas of crucial importance to a cognitive function, but not those that may be partially involved.
Fifth, study of brain damaged patients can lead to overestimates of the areas of the brain directly involved in certain aspects of cognitive functioning. This can happen when the brain damaged region contains axons known as fibers of passage, which connect the brain areas crucially involved in performing a certain cognitive function.”
Michael W. Eysenck, Principles of Cognitive Psychology, 2nd ed. (Philadelphia, PA: Taylor & Francis Inc., 2001) p. 6-7. [also in Michael W. Eysenck and Mark T. Keane, *Cognitive Psychology: A Student’s Handbook. 5th Ed. New York: Taylor & Francis Inc., 2005, pp. 9-10.] Italics in original.
 
that’s how it looks when we look at the brain now, but with sufficient technology, we could eventually get to the point where we understand the complete workings of the brain. At that point, we will see a break in the normal physical laws, in which case the soul does exist and controls the brain, or else we will not, which will mean that no soul can be interacting with the brain. In order for the brain to be used by the soul, the soul has to cause brain states.
this would be a hope based on a faith in science

from my perspective:
the spirit and the body are separate “dimensions/structures/understandings/perspectives/approaches/systems/etc” of the unity that is man
i would suggest that if you don’t see clear and conclusive evidence as you sit there looking at your computer screen, there would be nothing in future elaborations of neurological science/thought that would clarify the matter
studying body all you will find is body
if you want to know your spiritual side, you have to pray, meditate
 
this would be a hope based on a faith in science
If I were putting my faith in science, I would say that there will someday be enough evidence to prove whether or not we have free will. Instead, I’m saying that there may someday be enough evidence.
from my perspective:
the spirit and the body are separate “dimensions/structures/understandings/perspectives/approaches/systems/etc” of the unity that is man
i would suggest that if you don’t see clear and conclusive evidence as you sit there looking at your computer screen, there would be nothing in future elaborations of neurological science/thought that would clarify the matter
studying body all you will find is body
if you want to know your spiritual side, you have to pray, meditate
I agree that one can’t see the spiritual realm directly. However, one might be able to see the spiritual world indirectly, since spiritual causes have physical effects. If we find physical events in the brain that are outside reasonable quantum probability and physical laws, then we know that there is something spiritual directing those events. If we find that the brain is entirely deterministic from physical laws, we will know that there is no free will.

Or we may be limited in what we can observe. Who knows?
 
If I were putting my faith in science, I would say that there will someday be enough evidence to prove whether or not we have free will. Instead, I’m saying that there may someday be enough evidence.

I agree that one can’t see the spiritual realm directly. However, one might be able to see the spiritual world indirectly, since spiritual causes have physical effects. If we find physical events in the brain that are outside reasonable quantum probability and physical laws, then we know that there is something spiritual directing those events. If we find that the brain is entirely deterministic from physical laws, we will know that there is no free will.

Or we may be limited in what we can observe. Who knows?
Several points need to be considered in addressing the issue of whether there can be a reductive scientific explanation of the mind as nothing but brain activity.

(1) What has to be done is to relate first-person data (the data of inner personal conscious life) with third-person observed scientific physical data. How do objective, publically-observable neuronal events produce/become inner, first-person conscious experience(s)? We need to be mindful that what we are trying to explain is the first-person data.

(2) We already know causality between brain and mind is bi-directional, i.e., not only can one affect conscious experience and functioning by changes in the brain, one can also affect brain structure and functioning by conscious changes in activity. Research into neuroplasticity has made this abundantly clear.

(3) As for spiritual causes and physical effects, we need to acknowledge that the interaction of the mind (soul, “spiritual realm”) with matter may only be ascertainable by the intellect and not by measurable physical changes/processes.

In many significant cases the intellect can grasp certain realities not apprehensible by the senses alone. Examples would be existence, causality, the epistemological justification of the scientific method, mathematical theorems, and the intuitive grasp of the principle of sufficient reason, the mutual ordering of parts in a whole. E.g., the reception of raw sense impressions on sense organs of itself does not contain the judgment that a particular thing exists or that one thing is a cause: it is an act of the intellect which judges that a thing or property exists.
“cognitions which are only sensory are not the result of principles and causes but of the sensible object itself acting upon the senses. For to proceed from causes to effects or the reverse is not an activity of the senses but only of the intellect.”
[St. Thomas Aquinas, *Commentary on Aristotle’s Metaphysics, VI, Lesson 1, 1146]

(4) There are are serious questions as to whether the structure and function of physical objects type of analysis in science can ever bridge the explanatory gap between observed physical processes and inner first-person experience. Many researchers acknowledge that we have to settle for correlation not reductive causation.

Joaquín M. Fuster, MD, PhD, a neurological researcher writes in his Cortex and Mind. (Oxford University Press, 2003)
“There are evident correlations between the brain and the mind. In the domains of scientific empiricism, however, where causality reigns supreme, correlation is Cinderella. Yet correlation is the only logical relationship we can substantiate empirically between the brain and the mind. . . . correlation is all we need for upholding the indissoluble unity of cortex and mind.” (p. viii)
“A cognitive order, no matter how it is construed, cannot be causally reduced to a brain order. Only a semblance of causality can be indirectly inferred, for example, from the psychological effects of brain lesions or chemicals.” (p. viii) This is because “No cognitive function has a fully dedicated cortical area or network.” (56)
 
If I were putting my faith in science, I would say that there will someday be enough evidence to prove whether or not we have free will. Instead, I’m saying that there may someday be enough evidence.

I agree that one can’t see the spiritual realm directly. However, one might be able to see the spiritual world indirectly, since spiritual causes have physical effects. If we find physical events in the brain that are outside reasonable quantum probability and physical laws, then we know that there is something spiritual directing those events. If we find that the brain is entirely deterministic from physical laws, we will know that there is no free will.

Or we may be limited in what we can observe. Who knows?
there are so many interesting directions this topic could go:
  • the scientific method; it’s strengths and weaknesses
  • the reality of science: the politics, how its practice in the lab (i’m thinking specifically bio/animal labs) actually affects one’s attitude about and one’s relationship with the world independent of what one gains in terms of “objective” knowledge
  • the possiblity of proving that the soul exists empirically
i’ll focus on the last point:
  • i see the hand of God in the way the universe has taken shape, including its beginning; we have a point in time when it started (creation)
  • we see universal “laws” that are everywhere, in everything and beyond everything, because they create everything (God’s word)
  • we see and ever growing complexity in creation to the point where we arrive at man, who is self aware (and has the capacity to commune with His creator)
  • all the evidence one would ever need is right here as it was 5000 yrs ago
  • if one does not see God, they will not see the soul
 
Simple observation. My apology if it has already been presented.

It has been my impression that the soul employs the brain and does not control the brain. To me, there is a whale of a difference between the spiritual soul using the brain and the soul controlling the brain.

On the flip side, the brain, because it is material, can impede the soul’s physical expression in that the physical expression does depend on the physical anatomy. Nothing, except free will, can interfere with the soul’s expression of the spiritual such as love of God.
 
Consider that our consciousness and subconsciousness is controlled by the brain, that any damage to any part of the brain can affect the way we perceive ourselves, others, and even God. Since I am pursuing a neuroscience major in college I’d like to know how our knowledge of the brain and the idea of soul can be reconciled.
As currently defined, the concept of soul cannot be reconciled with our knowledge of the brain. An entirely new concept of soul as a physical entity is required. Also, it will be necessary for researchers to consider the possibility that the brain is not the source of human consciousness. I do not see either opposing belief system changing soon.

If you don’t believe that, seek an audience with a neuroscience professor and ask him your question. Be prepared for gentle ridicule. BTW, get very clear on your definitions of soul beforehand. There are quite a few definitions out there, many of which do not mix well.
 
I saw a documentary that showed that when people think about God the entire brain “lights up.” As if ever part of the brain is connected to God, not just one part.
Not really. When a certain part of the brain is activated, for example, we fall fast asleep. There are also other parts of the brain that controls primitive urges, like anger. So it’s doubtful that all of the brain is going to become active when thinking about God, but only select areas.
 
Simple observation. My apology if it has already been presented.

It has been my impression that the soul employs the brain and does not control the brain. To me, there is a whale of a difference between the spiritual soul using the brain and the soul controlling the brain.

On the flip side, the brain, because it is material, can impede the soul’s physical expression in that the physical expression does depend on the physical anatomy. Nothing, except free will, can interfere with the soul’s expression of the spiritual such as love of God.
Think of the brain as the receiver and spirit as the signal (from afar) that ‘speaks’ to the soul. The Holy Spirit, for example, does not dwell in the brain, but in the mind which is a product of the brain. The picture in a TV set does not originate from within the TV, but come from afar; similarly, inner voices do not originate from the brain, but are from afar.
 
. . . It has been my impression that the soul employs the brain and does not control the brain. To me, there is a whale of a difference between the spiritual soul using the brain and the soul controlling the brain.

On the flip side, the brain, because it is material, can impede the soul’s physical expression in that the physical expression does depend on the physical anatomy. Nothing, except free will, can interfere with the soul’s expression of the spiritual such as love of God.
maybe we can get closer to the mystery, contemplating the nature of what constitutes human experience as it manifests in this moment
  • the experience we are having here, right now is a whole: the monitor in front of us, thoughts, keyboard, words flow into one another within a single consciousness that cannot be defined, but contains various elements having different qualities
  • let’s focus on one system or structure: the physical. This monitor is physical as are the colors and letters it displays. The visual experience exists for us because of neural processes that communicate with one another - from the cells in our retinas to the neurons in our cerebral cortex. If any part of this is disturbed, we will be blind - the display as it exists in our visual world will disappear. Consider that the functioning nervous system that we can imagine out there, part of the physical world, is actually the phenomenon that is being experienced this moment. At the same time that this display is our nervous system, it is also the physical display itself. Within this experience there is a unity of what we are and what we are observing.
  • this leads us to consider a second system of structure that constitutes this experience: that of mind. What is happening, although it relates to physical processes that can be chemically analyzed and otherwise measured and described, includes seeing, thinking and feeling. Through our senses, we enter into a relationship with the world around us. Mind brings our world into existence as the frame of reference giving us our particular understanding of the universe. The “information/data/(name removed by moderator)ut” is cognitively organized; the world we experience is shaped through learning that occurs through direct contact and societal teachings. So I am whomever, living wherever, working as whatever. (This is pretty amazing stuff.) The monitor in front of us is perceived and understood as an object having particular components, out there, being observed by us in here. The mind generally makes sense of things in terms of what it knows, but can see things afresh. We note that body and mind do not control one another - moving the physical entity that is the keyboard and the perception of its movement exist as a unity, they are a whole. Thinking also takes place as neurons fire in particular patterns. One person, two ways of understanding him/her.
  • this of course leads us to the spirit. We exist, understand, know beauty and goodness; we act and our actions/lives have meaning. The wholeness that is this experience that we each are experiencing individually, is situated in the now, a now which is finite, in that it does not encompass the All, but has no dimensions. It is ever still, as time, events and experiences pass through it. It is God’s breath, making this moment be. The tiny dot that skims the page and gives life to these words, gives them meaning, emerges from He whose Being is within all, encompassing all time and space, eternal. We can therefore love Him and love each other, perceive and participate in the creation of what is beautiful. We can exercise our will in accordance to His wish for us: the Good, Himself. We can also choose otherwise.
We appear as a unity of body, mind and spirit, While words seem to fall short, I would agree that it is better to say that the soul employs the brain rather than it controls it.
 
Simple observation. My apology if it has already been presented.

It has been my impression that the soul employs the brain and does not control the brain. To me, there is a whale of a difference between the spiritual soul using the brain and the soul controlling the brain.

On the flip side, the brain, because it is material, can impede the soul’s physical expression in that the physical expression does depend on the physical anatomy. Nothing, except free will, can interfere with the soul’s expression of the spiritual such as love of God.
Think of the brain as the receiver and spirit as the signal (from afar) that ‘speaks’ to the soul. The Holy Spirit, for example, does not dwell in the brain, but in the mind which is a product of the brain. The picture in a TV set does not originate from within the TV, but come from afar; similarly, inner voices do not originate from the brain, but are from afar.
My apology, but I cannot think that way ever since I was nailed for my Catesian dualism.
 
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