Does NFP cause more porblems than it solves?

[1inICXC]

:yup::clapping:

[SIGN]Well said[/SIGN]

:clapping: more accolades for manualman! Brilliant!

Whatever discomfort NFP may cause -and being among those couples who have had indefinite periods of abstinence I think I am more than aware of them!- the perils (spiritual and physical) that it protects us from are much greater!

OP, you must be aware, that when it comes to sexual intimacy, some people see it as a supreme right to which everything else must be subjugated (they are the ones who see all the problems) in reality, sex is an undeniable good, that we must be able to give up, like any other good, if that’s what it takes to follow Jesus.

 

[nickybr38]

I see a TON of posts/threads on here regarding marriages that suffer from the Church’s strict rules against any form of birth control that isn’t periodic abstinence.

In some cases, a couple has a grave reason to avoid pregnancy but yet NFP doesn’t work for them, so they are forced to live as brother and sister. In other cases, the abstinence period is so long that one spouse begins to resort to masturbation or porn use.

…Things like this will sometimes hurt a marriage a great deal.

I see this again and again.

This makes me think that the Church is in error in not allowing the use of some forms of non abortifacient birth control, at least in extreme cases… for the greater good of the family, the marriage, and the souls involved.

How do I, or anyone, reconcile with a law that seems to cause so much harm to many families and marriages??

NFP is not the problem. People are the problem.

 

[BingoBoy]

This culture didn’t get this way by accident. The sexual worldview of our culture changed precisely BECAUSE it embraced contraception.

I don’t understand why people here keep blaming contraception rather than just blaming premarital sex. It makes no logical sense whatsoever, and to me, an argument loses it’s whole credibility when someone tries to say contraception is bad because it caused all the sexual immorality.

Contraception can be, and very often IS, used in a legitimate marriage. It isn’t just used by people who go around having premarital sex with anybody and everybody.

Just because something can be USED for bad, doesn’t mean it IS bad. So that particular argument holds absolutely no water.

 

[Castello]

I don’t understand why people here keep blaming contraception rather than just blaming premarital sex. It makes no logical sense whatsoever, and to me, an argument loses it’s whole credibility when someone tries to say contraception is bad because it caused all the sexual immorality.

Contraception can be, and very often IS, used in a legitimate marriage. It isn’t just used by people who go around having premarital sex with anybody and everybody.

Just because something can be USED for bad, doesn’t mean it IS bad. So that particular argument holds absolutely no water.

Contraception is never legitimate. It IS intrinsically bad. It can never be legitimate or good. That is what society has so twisted around.

Do you know that contraception was illegal in the United States not that many years ago? Did you know that every Christian denomination called contraception sinful until a few years ago?

Did you know that people used to realize that sex makes babies, so, one best not be having sex (married or unmarried) if one did not want a baby? There was far less adultery and fornication because people feared “getting caught” by getting pregnant. Yes, contraception made adultery and fornication easy, but, it also led to abortion and the breakdown of the family.

Contraception is always evil, even for two atheists who have been married for 15 years.

 

[BingoBoy]

Contraception is never legitimate. It IS intrinsically bad. It can never be legitimate or good. That is what society has so twisted around.

Do you know that contraception was illegal in the United States not that many years ago? Did you know that every Christian denomination called contraception sinful until a few years ago?

Did you know that people used to realize that sex makes babies, so, one best not be having sex (married or unmarried) if one did not want a baby? There was far less adultery and fornication because people feared “getting caught” by getting pregnant. Yes, contraception made adultery and fornication easy, but, it also led to abortion and the breakdown of the family.

Contraception is always evil, even for two atheists who have been married for 15 years.

That’s all fine and dandy, but just don’t use the argument of “look where our culture is now as a result of contraception” as a legitimate argument as to WHY it’s wrong. Which is what a couple people here have done.

 

[gardenswithkids]

I don’t understand why people here keep blaming contraception rather than just blaming premarital sex. It makes no logical sense whatsoever, and to me, an argument loses it’s whole credibility when someone tries to say contraception is bad because it caused all the sexual immorality.

Contraception can be, and very often IS, used in a legitimate marriage. It isn’t just used by people who go around having premarital sex with anybody and everybody.

Just because something can be USED for bad, doesn’t mean it IS bad. So that particular argument holds absolutely no water.

Yes, just because something can be used for bad doesn’t mean it’s bad; however, just because something can be used for good doesn’t mean it’s always good either.

Sex is good–seriously good. Divinely inspired even, with the potential designed within it to create human beings. That’s good stuff!.Sex can be misused, and since it’s such a serious good, misusing sex is a serious evil, (aka mortal sin.) Contraception is a perversion of sex, marital or otherwise.

As to your original question: Does NFP cause more problems than it solves? That depends on who is using it and why. NFP will never make engaging in sex outside of marriage okay–just as marriage will never make the use of contraception okay.

Married couples who encounter great difficulty while using NFP may need to ask themselves (repeatedly) if they have just reasons for avoiding additional children–and even if their reasons are just, that doesn’t mean they have to use it. I have numerous reasons why I could use NFP, but I don’t use it. Just because you can use something doesn’t mean you* have* to use it. There’s a toddler bothering me right now that my husband and I could have justly avoided conceiving via NFP a couple years ago, but I think God wanted her. Yeah, NFP caused my husband and me a few problems, so we didn’t use it. I think God likes our toddler; she’s pretty cute. :curtsey:

 

[Debora123]

Yes, just because something can be used for bad doesn’t mean it’s bad; however, just because something can be used for good doesn’t mean it’s always good either.

My point is that such is not a legitimate argument. As you can see.

 

[BingoBoy]

Yes, just because something can be used for bad doesn’t mean it’s bad; however, just because something can be used for good doesn’t mean it’s always good either.

Correct. My point was simply that such is not a legitimate argument… As you can see and have stated so yourself.

 

[casey_zia]

OP, you must be aware, that when it comes to sexual intimacy, some people see it as a supreme right to which everything else must be subjugated (they are the ones who see all the problems) in reality, sex is an undeniable good, that we must be able to give up, like any other good, if that’s what it takes to follow Jesus.

NFP is like that canary…They resent the canary instead of appreciating how it saves their marriage from the development of a fatal pattern where sex is an act of mutual taking instead of a mutual

Brilliant, both of you!
:clapping::yup::clapping:

 

[StarFireKK]

I don’t understand why people here keep blaming contraception rather than just blaming premarital sex. It makes no logical sense whatsoever, and to me, an argument loses it’s whole credibility when someone tries to say contraception is bad because it caused all the sexual immorality.

Contraception can be, and very often IS, used in a legitimate marriage. It isn’t just used by people who go around having premarital sex with anybody and everybody.

Just because something can be USED for bad, doesn’t mean it IS bad. So that particular argument holds absolutely no water.

Read Theology of the Body or talk to a Priest that has. The Pope has already answered your questions.

The wide use of contreceptives has led to a “contreceptive mindset” which is a a break down in communication and the natural “stops” sex normally has.

When a woman no longer has to worry about having or providing for a child she is less incline to communicate with her partner. Since the consequences are taken out of the picture there is no reason not to view sex as a purely pleasurable act.

Since communication breaks down and the consequences are gone…there is a large temptation for men and women to view each other and sex as just a way to feel good- it becomes a selfish act rather than an act of love.

I know what you are going to say— it doesn’t have to be. That’s where I got hung up on it too- I remember comparing it to being a child and not being allowed to play with a ball because SOME of the children will carelessly throw the ball and break the windows.

Then it dawned on me that that doesn’t matter. Of course, we all think we are going to be the children that will behave and use the ball properly…we could never be the children that might be careless and break something.

Sometimes, the Church knows when to protect us from ourselves.

Think about your argument. It is hard to do and it causes difficulties, so we shouldn’t have to do it. Doesn’t that argument work for just about any of the Church’s rules?

 

[twoangels]

I see a TON of posts/threads on here regarding marriages that suffer from the Church’s strict rules against any form of birth control that isn’t periodic abstinence.

In some cases, a couple has a grave reason to avoid pregnancy but yet NFP doesn’t work for them, so they are forced to live as brother and sister. In other cases, the abstinence period is so long that one spouse begins to resort to masturbation or porn use.

…Things like this will sometimes hurt a marriage a great deal.

I see this again and again.

This makes me think that the Church is in error in not allowing the use of some forms of non abortifacient birth control, at least in extreme cases… for the greater good of the family, the marriage, and the souls involved.

How do I, or anyone, reconcile with a law that seems to cause so much harm to many families and marriages??

You practice it in obedience but most of all prayer. This is a moment of “Lord I believe, help my unbelief.” Pray about how you’re using NFP, but most of all just join as a couple together in prayer bringing all your struggles to the Lord. It may mean a rosary or the Liturgy of the Hours. Make sure you’re spending time doing spiritual readings.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Correct. My point was simply that such is not a legitimate argument… As you can see and have stated so yourself.

Good, we agree on two points. Now perhaps you can look at some other points which spun off the points we already agree on. NFP is not okay in all circumstances, for instances using NFP doesn’t make sex outside of marriage okay. Do we agree on that? I hope so.

If you agree that NFP doesn’t make sex outside of marriage okay, then continuing on that same logic, marriage does not make contraception okay. Just because marital sex is good, doesn’t make contraception good.

 

[teresadeavila]

We love the convenience, ease of contraception - but at what price? NFP helps keep our marriage strong, not cause suffering. If not used correctly, you could have many kids, a reality married couples should be aware of and a beautiful cross to bear IMO. If used correctly and there are periods of abstinence, is the suffering so unbearable it’s worth losing your soul over?? And I have a very healthy sex drive so perhaps it’s a matter of reaching out to resources and tools within your reach to help married couples and families out. At least in our Diocese, those resources are available.

The periods of abstinence (which should not go on for weeks or months if using NFP correctly) are IMO, romantic time of anticipation - it’s nice to have that after you get very comfortable being around your spouse and may miss that sexual tension/anticipation/excitement when you first met/dated.
Maria

 

[manualman]

I don’t understand why people here keep blaming contraception rather than just blaming premarital sex. It makes no logical sense whatsoever, and to me, an argument loses it’s whole credibility when someone tries to say contraception is bad because it caused all the sexual immorality.

Contraception can be, and very often IS, used in a legitimate marriage. It isn’t just used by people who go around having premarital sex with anybody and everybody.

Just because something can be USED for bad, doesn’t mean it IS bad. So that particular argument holds absolutely no water.

From this post, I bet you’d also find JPII’s admonition to MARRIED couples to beware the temptation to lust for one another bewildering. Yes?

You’ve achieved step one in recognizing that sexual intimacy is destructive outside of the marriage relationship. What you need to do next is recognize that even within marriage, healthy sexuality cannot include objectivizing the spouse. She can never be an object to be used for your pleasure. She must always be your beloved to whom you give, not who you take from (not to be confused with receiving from). This is tricky and I don’t claim to have reached the mountaintop myself. But it’s beautiful when you contemplate it.

Contraception, even inside marriage, always is ordered towards a taking mentality, not a giving one. By it’s very nature it is a selfish action, which cannot avoid damaging the encounter between the spouses. We humans are a union of body and soul, but our culture today is rapidly moving in a direction in which we pretend that the self is independent of the body (which is also why so many see nothing wrong with ‘gay marriage’, another debate). Thus, nobody recognizes that deliberately sterilizing a sexual encounter that it naturally fertile is so destructive. News flash, your body and its inner workings are part of who you ARE. God made sex a tangled up union of the physical and spiritual. Think for a moment and wonder at the arrogance of asserting that we know enough to “improve” on how He designed us by severing the built-in link between sex and babies! Most human sin starts with pride, all the way back to Eden.

 

[Dan_Daly]

I see a TON of posts/threads on here regarding marriages that suffer from the Church’s strict rules against any form of birth control that isn’t periodic abstinence.

In some cases, a couple has a grave reason to avoid pregnancy but yet NFP doesn’t work for them, so they are forced to live as brother and sister. In other cases, the abstinence period is so long that one spouse begins to resort to masturbation or porn use.

…Things like this will sometimes hurt a marriage a great deal.

I see this again and again.

This makes me think that the Church is in error in not allowing the use of some forms of non abortifacient birth control, at least in extreme cases… for the greater good of the family, the marriage, and the souls involved.

How do I, or anyone, reconcile with a law that seems to cause so much harm to many families and marriages??

I will agree and disagree with the OP.

The Church is not in error when it condemns contraception. It’s a grave evil.

At the same time, I do think NFP causes lots of problems, and I know many other Catholics who think the same. Most NFP classes that I am aware of spend almost the entire class on how to use it to avoid children, and little or no time on when it is and isn’t moral to do so. The result is that NFP comes to be seen as “Catholic contraception” and in many cases, it is used as such.

Viewing a married couple has having a choice between:

A) Contraception
B) NFP

Is based upon a false premise. There are other options. A couple may choose to abstain completely from relations if they have grave reasons to do so. Conversely, a couple may live a normal life, including married relations, and trust to God’s providence.

Children are a gift. NFP runs into real problems when it starts portraying them as a problem.

Pax Christi

 

[fgh_123]

It is not NFP that causes suffering. It is a worldly view and orientation towards sexual intimacy. Disordered desires and the false message of secular culture regarding “love”, “self”, and “freedom” and against authentic love, marriage, family, and sacrifice.

There would be no “problem” if people listened to God through his Church instead of the world.

Not quite sure on this view.

Sex has been and ALWAYS will be an integral part of the human experience. I don’t think God was ever against that, and I don’t think that ABC (unless pushed) goes straight into the secular category.

I personally see nothing wrong in it, though I will be talking to my priest about the issue, seeing as he’s asked me to be a minister of the sacrament.

 

[StarFireKK]

I will agree and disagree with the OP.

The Church is not in error when it condemns contraception. It’s a grave evil.

At the same time, I do think NFP causes lots of problems, and I know many other Catholics who think the same. Most NFP classes that I am aware of spend almost the entire class on how to use it to avoid children, and little or no time on when it is and isn’t moral to do so. The result is that NFP comes to be seen as “Catholic contraception” and in many cases, it is used as such.

Viewing a married couple has having a choice between:

A) Contraception
B) NFP

Is based upon a false premise. There are other options. A couple may choose to abstain completely from relations if they have grave reasons to do so. Conversely, a couple may live a normal life, including married relations, and trust to God’s providence.

Children are a gift. NFP runs into real problems when it starts portraying them as a problem.

Pax Christi

I agree with Mr. Daly! This was exactly how my husband and I thought about NFP. We did the little class, we did the Engagement Weekend and it wasn’t until we finally sat down with the Priest and said “Look…this doesn’t make sense” that we were finally taught the morality and theory behind it.

If you don’t understand why you are doing it, it is a lot harder to stay on the path.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

From this post, I bet you’d also find JPII’s admonition to MARRIED couples to beware the temptation to lust for one another bewildering. Yes?

You’ve achieved step one in recognizing that sexual intimacy is destructive outside of the marriage relationship. What you need to do next is recognize that even within marriage, healthy sexuality cannot include objectivizing the spouse. She can never be an object to be used for your pleasure. She must always be your beloved to whom you give, not who you take from (not to be confused with receiving from). This is tricky and I don’t claim to have reached the mountaintop myself. But it’s beautiful when you contemplate it.

Contraception, even inside marriage, always is ordered towards a taking mentality, not a giving one. By it’s very nature it is a selfish action, which cannot avoid damaging the encounter between the spouses. We humans are a union of body and soul, but our culture today is rapidly moving in a direction in which we pretend that the self is independent of the body (which is also why so many see nothing wrong with ‘gay marriage’, another debate). Thus, nobody recognizes that deliberately sterilizing a sexual encounter that it naturally fertile is so destructive. News flash, your body and its inner workings are part of who you ARE. God made sex a tangled up union of the physical and spiritual. Think for a moment and wonder at the arrogance of asserting that we know enough to “improve” on how He designed us by severing the built-in link between sex and babies! Most human sin starts with pride, all the way back to Eden.

manualman, I feel like your personal fan club, but this is another great post.

:clapping::clapping::bowdown2: