Does NFP really work?

[manualman]

… I’d love to be able to afford taking my kids on vacations to see different places and relatives… and maybe a trip to Disney. I’d love to be able to afford putting my kids in private schools and not making them worry about college loans. I’d love to afford quitting my job so that I could be a full time stay at home mom while not having to send my husband off to work extra hours.
…

Hehehe. How do you think I WENT broke??

Here’s a hard won family budgeting tip since you mention well rounding vacations. Learn to camp and be happy doing it. I’ll put my family vacations up head to head against those who spend 3 times as much and win. Glacier NP, Smokies NP, Acadia NP, Rocky Mountain NP, Cape May, the SD Black Hills… The most amazing parts of vacations are usually the cheapest ones. The most expensive stuff (hotel rooms, airplane tickets, dining out and tourist dreck) are usually the least memorable.

 

[Rascalking]

Ah, I see. Thanks, and sorry for having gotten the wrong impression.

:tsktsk:

Shame on you Debora123! Don’t get the wrong impression again!

 

[CountrySinger]

I’d also like to add that some couples find it best to have the appropriate # of kids to where they are still able to afford taking them on vacations to see different parts of the country/world or to visit family or to go to Disney World.

Some feel best if they can afford having enough to put their kids in private Catholic schools and help them pay for college.

Some families may want to be able to afford keeping one parent in the house while the other doesn’t have to work full time to make ends meet and can spend more time at home with the family.

The above are all things I personally plan on keeping in mind when trying to discern # of children. I’d love to be able to afford taking my kids on vacations to see different places and relatives… and maybe a trip to Disney. I’d love to be able to afford putting my kids in private schools and not making them worry about college loans. I’d love to afford quitting my job so that I could be a full time stay at home mom while not having to send my husband off to work extra hours.

We are not ALL required to keep having children until we are broke. It just depends on what we think is best for our family, how we want to parent, and what we think God calls us to.

I grew up poor. I would stress out because of money when I was little. I don’t want any child of mine to worry about that. I was made fun of all through school for not being rich.

I want them to have a good life. I don’t want them to settle for less than the best. I want to be able to give them the best advantage in life (tutors, private lessons in music, art, etc.) I want to be able to dress them nicely, so they aren’t the ones being made fun of not wearing name brand clothes. I want them able to go to an Ivy League school and not worry about paying for it (I was accepted to Harvard, but couldn’t go because of money, I’m still a teensy bit bitter about that). I don’t want my child to stay up at night stressing about money at eight years old. I want my child/ren to be able to see the world, and be cultured (we have family all over the world). I want them to have the things I never got. If I can’t do that, then I failed. Apparently that is wrong.

 

[Debora123]

Hehehe. How do you think I WENT broke??

Here’s a hard won family budgeting tip since you mention well rounding vacations. Learn to camp and be happy doing it. I’ll put my family vacations up head to head against those who spend 3 times as much and win. Glacier NP, Smokies NP, Acadia NP, Rocky Mountain NP, Cape May, the SD Black Hills… The most amazing parts of vacations are usually the cheapest ones. The most expensive stuff (hotel rooms, airplane tickets, dining out and tourist dreck) are usually the least memorable.

Hahaha!!

I actually can’t camp. Lol, I just can’t do it. I need a soft bed, I need a clean bathroom… my family went camping once and I HATED IT!

That being said, I totally don’t mind staying with family or at a cheap hotel. I just can’t do camping.

 

[Debora123]

:tsktsk:

Shame on you Debora123! Don’t get the wrong impression again!

 

[Debora123]

I grew up poor. I would stress out because of money when I was little. I don’t want any child of mine to worry about that. I was made fun of all through school for not being rich.

I want them to have a good life. I don’t want them to settle for less than the best. I want to be able to give them the best advantage in life (tutors, private lessons in music, art, etc.) I want to be able to dress them nicely, so they aren’t the ones being made fun of not wearing name brand clothes. I want them able to go to an Ivy League school and not worry about paying for it (I was accepted to Harvard, but couldn’t go because of money, I’m still a teensy bit bitter about that). I don’t want my child to stay up at night stressing about money at eight years old. I want my child/ren to be able to see the world, and be cultured (we have family all over the world). I want them to have the things I never got. If I can’t do that, then I failed. Apparently that is wrong.

I feel the same way… though maybe not quite to such extreme, but I definitely don’t want my children to EVER have to struggle with money… and I want them to be able to be kids and go to Disney world and see different places/cultures.

 

[CountrySinger]

Hahaha!!

I actually can’t camp. Lol, I just can’t do it. I need a soft bed, I need a clean bathroom… my family went camping once and I HATED IT!

That being said, I totally don’t mind staying with family or at a cheap hotel. I just can’t do camping.

You and me both. I need a bed and running water. I also need AC if it’s spring or summer. I’ll get heat stroke if I don’t. I’m also allergic to pollen (discovered once while hiking, I stopped breathing and was airlifted to a hospital).

 

[manualman]

Countrysinger,

A word of caution: I grew up in the north suburbs of Chicago. My subdivision was the ‘wrong’ side of the tracks, but most of my catholic schoolmates were from money. I know what you mean. I’d have died of shame had anybody known that we got powdered milk and government cheese.

But you know what? An awful lot of those kids who were given “the best of everything” turned out to be rotten scoundrels. My advice: tell them “No, it’s too expensive” sometimes.

For what it’s worth.

 

[Rascalking]

But you know what? An awful lot of those kids who were given “the best of everything” turned out to be rotten scoundrels. For what it’s worth.

It’s actually worth alot. I grew up very wealthy and went to great schools along the way. The majority of us-myself included-were/are spoiled brats, shallow, cruel and mean.

 

[Debora123]

It’s actually worth alot. I grew up very wealthy and went to great schools along the way. The majority of us-myself included-were/are spoiled brats, shallow, cruel and mean.

Riiiiight.

Seriously though, of course there are going to be plenty of rich kids out there who grow up to be snobs and arrogant, spoiled brats.

But there are also plenty of poor kids out there living in the “wrong part of town” who grow up to be uneducated thugs and criminals.

…It all depends on parenting. It is best not to make assumptions based on how much money a family has.

 

[manualman]

…It all depends on parenting. It is best not to make assumptions based on how much money a family has.

Precisely. It IS bad parenting to transfer anxiety about finances to the kids or to give them the impression that they can never have anything good. It is also bad parenting to allow your children to grow up thinking that the world owes them the very best by virtue of how special they are compared to everyone else. It’s almost inevitable that people ‘learn’ this lesson if they never have to make do with second best (third, fourth, etc) once in a while.

 

[choose_to_love]

@manualman: Wow, awesome post(s) in the recent exchange above. Thank you for your continued witness.

@deb: I see you’ve already kind of addressed it, but cut manualman some slack. Although I’m not exactly objective, b/c I think his posts are succinct and full of sharing, but I am sure manual did not mean to make anyone feel like they had to have kids until they are broke. See his whole posting history to confirm.

@country, rascal, deb: I wasn’t poor or rich growing up by any means, right in the middle I would say, but looking back, I think my parents did too much without expecting enough out of me. I think I know that rascal is half-joking, but only half. I get that a post here is generally not detailed enough to list one’s entire parenting philosophy, but I see manual and rascal’s points; also (and I am not saying you would not take this into account in your individual discernments) the benefits described by country have to also be weighed against the benefit of having (more) brothers and sisters.

I have more I would like to say on this but gotta run.

 

[1inICXC]

Countrysinger,

A word of caution: I grew up in the north suburbs of Chicago. My subdivision was the ‘wrong’ side of the tracks, but most of my catholic schoolmates were from money. I know what you mean. I’d have died of shame had anybody known that we got powdered milk and government cheese.

But you know what? An awful lot of those kids who were given “the best of everything” turned out to be rotten scoundrels. My advice: tell them “No, it’s too expensive” sometimes.

For what it’s worth.

Agreed. Our kids are highly, highly privileged compared to.what we were but for that matter, they know mommy goes shopping with a list and if it’s not on there then they don’t get it, because -I- know what they need. If we need boots and the only one’s her size are too expensive (not necessarily unafordable, just comparatively expensive) we tell them that and keep looking.

My kids will WORK for what they will need in the future, including for their education, and they will know the value of things until they get there. I want children who are grateful for what they have not upset about what they don’t.

I don’t want my children feeling entitled to anything, just because everyone else has it and I’m a firm believer that I do not owe them travels or college education. Sure, we already took them to Greece and we will be doing more traveling but that’s because DH and I chose to do so not because our children are entitled to vacations abroad or because we believe our children deserve it. We owe our children love, sound moral education, transmission of faith and to cover all their basic needs. Anything beyond that, such as Disney world, is totally optional, and as a parent, I have no regrets if i don’t offer them that. I’d much rather take them on a trip to Uganda to teach them gratitude in fact .

I speaking from experience, iwas by far the least, financially, fortunate of my group of friends, so I worked hard, studied hard, got my scholarships, traveled through Europe and am convinced that you get further in life when you feel things have to be earned rather than that you are entitled to them.

One huge parenting tip however is to give your children major backbone along with this kind of education. You don’t let them cry because EVERYONE else has an iPhone, or EVERYONE,goes on that 5-day school trip that costs hundreds of dollars. They have to know you place more value on other things and the privilege in having those other things. They need to see it not as a punishment but as a better alternative to materialism.

And for the record, I also only go camping if there’s a hotel nearby

 

[Debora123]

Precisely. It IS bad parenting to transfer anxiety about finances to the kids or to give them the impression that they can never have anything good. It is also bad parenting to allow your children to grow up thinking that the world owes them the very best by virtue of how special they are compared to everyone else. It’s almost inevitable that people ‘learn’ this lesson if they never have to make do with second best (third, fourth, etc) once in a while.

 

[Debora123]

@deb: I see you’ve already kind of addressed it, but cut manualman some slack. Although I’m not exactly objective, b/c I think his posts are succinct and full of sharing, but I am sure manual did not mean to make anyone feel like they had to have kids until they are broke. See his whole posting history to confirm.

I was honest and addressed how his post came across to me, and then apologized when he clarified. As you can see, all is well.

@country, rascal, deb: I wasn’t poor or rich growing up by any means, right in the middle I would say, but looking back, I think my parents did too much without expecting enough out of me. I think I know that rascal is half-joking, but only half. I get that a post here is generally not detailed enough to list one’s entire parenting philosophy, but I see manual and rascal’s points; also (and I am not saying you would not take this into account in your individual discernments) the benefits described by country have to also be weighed against the benefit of having (more) brothers and sisters.

I have more I would like to say on this but gotta run.

I was right in the middle class as well. I think my parents did a good job in discerning the # of children they had. I definitely don’t look back and think “wow, I wish I had had more siblings…”

 

[Debora123]

Agreed. Our kids are highly, highly privileged compared to.what we were but for that matter, they know mommy goes shopping with a list and if it’s not on there then they don’t get it, because -I- know what they need. If we need boots and the only one’s her size are too expensive (not necessarily unafordable, just comparatively expensive) we tell them that and keep looking.

My kids will WORK for what they will need in the future, including for their education, and they will know the value of things until they get there. I want children who are grateful for what they have not upset about what they don’t.

I don’t want my children feeling entitled to anything, just because everyone else has it and I’m a firm believer that I do not owe them travels or college education. Sure, we already took them to Greece and we will be doing more traveling but that’s because DH and I chose to do so not because our children are entitled to vacations abroad or because we believe our children deserve it. We owe our children love, sound moral education, transmission of faith and to cover all their basic needs. Anything beyond that, such as Disney world, is totally optional, and as a parent, I have no regrets if i don’t offer them that. I’d much rather take them on a trip to Uganda to teach them gratitude in fact .

I speaking from experience, iwas by far the least, financially, fortunate of my group of friends, so I worked hard, studied hard, got my scholarships, traveled through Europe and am convinced that you get further in life when you feel things have to be earned rather than that you are entitled to them.

Everyone has their own parenting style. I fully intend on paying for my future kids’ schools and making sure they never struggle while they are young, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to teach them that they are “entitled” to everything and anything in life, either. My parents payed for all my education from private schools to college, and though you can call me many things, “spoiled brat” isn’t one of them.

 

[manualman]

I have been known to be as subtle as a hammer. No need to apologize to ME. Sorry if I came off as if I saw you as a protruding nail…

 

[agapewolf]

Just to add a little bit here.

JPII did give a suggested minimum of children in Love and Responsibility.

 

[1inICXC]

Just to add a little bit here.

JPII did give a suggested minimum of children in Love and Responsibility.

I’m guessing 3?

 

[KostyaJMJ]

Just to add a little bit here.

JPII did give a suggested minimum of children in Love and Responsibility.

Are you going to keep us in suspense or are you going to tell us the suggested minimum?

I am guessing replacement level.