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coolcatholicguy
Guest
Does it? I’m not sure, God did start Judaism, but Jews don’t accept Jesus as their promised Savior.
Does "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church" apply to Jews?
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
FYI:
“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm
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CMatt25
Guest
Jews? I’m still trying to find out for certain if by mortal sins and statements such as “could not be saved” applies to Catholics who once fully believed and no longer do? Whether even they can be saved without repenting in an acceptable Catholic manner what they no longer believe? There seemed no concensus on the forum the last I checked. Or perhaps some Catholics just don’t want to come out and admit the Church is judging how God will judge before He pronounces someone’s judgment? I honestly have no idea. 
Although perhaps Jews have a better chance than the Catholic person in my scenario.
Although perhaps Jews have a better chance than the Catholic person in my scenario.
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Wesley7
Guest
Yes I would think the church applies to everyone
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buffalo
Guest
If you find yourself in heaven you will be Catholic and you will have come through the Church, the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church Christ set up for that very reason.
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Third_Day
Guest
Depends on why they no longer believe the Church to be the True Church. If they left because they they think they know more than the Church on moral issues then they will not be saved. “For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened…if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt” Hebrews 6:4-6
God cannot be fooled. He knows their hearts. He will not send an innocent person to hell but if they knowingly reject the Church because they want to choose their own morality, then why should God save them.?
You may be right.
To whom much is given much is expected. (Luke 12:48)
Much has been given to a Catholic.
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CMatt25
Guest
Thank you 3rd Day.
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JudiTherese
Guest
Amen, Dockimas
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buffalo
Guest
Jesus founded a Church that was universal. A universal means of salvation.
How do we recognize the true Church?
It is one
it is holy
it is universal
it is apostolic
Katholikos - first recorded use around 100AD. - means universal.
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buffalo
Guest
How do we recognize a church not authentic?
fragmented
not universal
not apostolic
depends on solely the written word
privately interpreted
has no authority to preserve the deposit of faith.
disorganized
Can the above be what Christ has in mind?
fragmented
not universal
not apostolic
depends on solely the written word
privately interpreted
has no authority to preserve the deposit of faith.
disorganized
Can the above be what Christ has in mind?
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Third_Day
Guest
Do you believe that there is salvation outside the body of Christ?
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Dokimas
Guest
The church Jesus founded is most surely universal which means it’s FAR bigger than the CC. He also made salvation universal and that could only be by one Person, the God-Man Jesus. Salvation is by Jesus ALONE and joins us to His Bride.
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Dokimas
Guest
Salvation is IN Christ alone. Then we become part of the Bride of Christ.
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Dokimas
Guest
Do you want to get into a ‘rotten egg’ throwing contest? What purpose would that serve?
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buffalo
Guest
**I. THE CHURCH IS ONE **
** “The sacred mystery of the Church’s unity” (UR 2) **
[813](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/813.htm’)
The Church is one because of her source: "the highest exemplar and source of this mystery is the unity, in the Trinity of Persons, of one God, the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit."259 The Church is one because of her founder: for "the Word made flesh, the prince of peace, reconciled all men to God by the cross, . . . restoring the unity of all in one people and one body."260 The Church is one because of her “soul”: "It is the Holy Spirit, dwelling in those who believe and pervading and ruling over the entire Church, who brings about that wonderful communion of the faithful and joins them together so intimately in Christ that he is the principle of the Church’s unity."261 Unity is of the essence of the Church:What an astonishing mystery! There is one Father of the universe, one Logos of the universe, and also one Holy Spirit, everywhere one and the same; there is also one virgin become mother, and I should like to call her "Church."262
[814](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/814.htm’) From the beginning, this one Church has been marked by a great *diversity *which comes from both the variety of God’s gifts and the diversity of those who receive them. Within the unity of the People of God, a multiplicity of peoples and cultures is gathered together. Among the Church’s members, there are different gifts, offices, conditions, and ways of life. "Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular Churches that retain their own traditions."263 The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church’s unity. Yet sin and the burden of its consequences constantly threaten the gift of unity. And so the Apostle has to exhort Christians to "maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."264[815](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/815.htm’) What are these bonds of unity? Above all, charity "binds everything together in perfect harmony."265 But the unity of the pilgrim Church is also assured by visible bonds of communion:- profession of one faith received from the Apostles;
-common celebration of divine worship, especially of the sacraments; - apostolic succession through the sacrament of Holy Orders, maintaining the fraternal concord of God’s family.266
[816](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/816.htm’) "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter’s pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."267
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Dokimas
Guest
Thanks for your opinion and the opinion of the CC about the CC.**I. THE CHURCH IS ONE **
** “The sacred mystery of the Church’s unity” (UR 2) **
[813](javascript
What an astonishing mystery! There is one Father of the universe, one Logos of the universe, and also one Holy Spirit, everywhere one and the same; there is also one virgin become mother, and I should like to call her "Church."262
[814](javascript
[815](javascript
The Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."268
- profession of one faith received from the Apostles;
-common celebration of divine worship, especially of the sacraments;- apostolic succession through the sacrament of Holy Orders, maintaining the fraternal concord of God’s family.266
[816](javascript
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buffalo
Guest
Indulge me - one more…
**III. THE CHURCH IS CATHOLIC **
** What does “catholic” mean? **
830 The word “catholic” means “universal,” in the sense of “according to the totality” or “in keeping with the whole.” The Church is catholic in a double sense:
First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. "Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church."307 In her subsists the fullness of Christ’s body united with its head; this implies that she receives from him "the fullness of the means of salvation"308 which he has willed: correct and complete confession of faith, full sacramental life, and ordained ministry in apostolic succession. The Church was, in this fundamental sense, catholic on the day of Pentecost309 and will always be so until the day of the Parousia.
831 Secondly, the Church is catholic because she has been sent out by Christ on a mission to the whole of the human race:310
All men are called to belong to the new People of God. This People, therefore, while remaining one and only one, is to be spread throughout the whole world and to all ages in order that the design of God’s will may be fulfilled: he made human nature one in the beginning and has decreed that all his children who were scattered should be finally gathered together as one. . . . The character of universality which adorns the People of God is a gift from the Lord himself whereby the Catholic Church ceaselessly and efficaciously seeks for the return of all humanity and all its goods, under Christ the Head in the unity of his Spirit.311
** Each particular Church is “catholic” **
832 "The Church of Christ is really present in all legitimately organized local groups of the faithful, which, in so far as they are united to their pastors, are also quite appropriately called Churches in the New Testament. . . . In them the faithful are gathered together through the preaching of the Gospel of Christ, and the mystery of the Lord’s Supper is celebrated. . . . In these communities, though they may often be small and poor, or existing in the diaspora, Christ is present, through whose power and influence the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is constituted."312
833 The phrase “particular Church,” which is first of all the diocese (or eparchy), refers to a community of the Christian faithful in communion of faith and sacraments with their bishop ordained in apostolic succession.313 These particular Churches "are constituted after the model of the universal Church; it is in these and formed out of them that the one and unique Catholic Church exists."314
http://javascript<b></b>:openWindow('cr/834.htm');
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buffalo
Guest
834 Particular Churches are fully catholic through their communion with one of them, the Church of Rome "which presides in charity."315 "For with this church, by reason of its pre-eminence, the whole Church, that is the faithful everywhere, must necessarily be in accord."316 Indeed, "from the incarnate Word’s descent to us, all Christian churches everywhere have held and hold the great Church that is here [at Rome] to be their only basis and foundation since, according to the Savior’s promise, the gates of hell have never prevailed against her."317
835 "Let us be very careful not to conceive of the universal Church as the simple sum, or . . . the more or less anomalous federation of essentially different particular churches. In the mind of the Lord the Church is universal by vocation and mission, but when she put down her roots in a variety of cultural, social, and human terrains, she takes on different external expressions and appearances in each part of the world."318 The rich variety of ecclesiastical disciplines, liturgical rites, and theological and spiritual heritages proper to the local churches "unified in a common effort, shows all the more resplendently the catholicity of the undivided Church."319
** Who belongs to the Catholic Church? **
836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation."320
837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’"321
838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324
835 "Let us be very careful not to conceive of the universal Church as the simple sum, or . . . the more or less anomalous federation of essentially different particular churches. In the mind of the Lord the Church is universal by vocation and mission, but when she put down her roots in a variety of cultural, social, and human terrains, she takes on different external expressions and appearances in each part of the world."318 The rich variety of ecclesiastical disciplines, liturgical rites, and theological and spiritual heritages proper to the local churches "unified in a common effort, shows all the more resplendently the catholicity of the undivided Church."319
** Who belongs to the Catholic Church? **
836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation."320
837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’"321
838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324
**I. THE CHURCH IS ONE **
** “The sacred mystery of the Church’s unity” (UR 2) **
[813](javascript
What an astonishing mystery! There is one Father of the universe, one Logos of the universe, and also one Holy Spirit, everywhere one and the same; there is also one virgin become mother, and I should like to call her "Church."262
[814](javascript
[815](javascript
The Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."268
- profession of one faith received from the Apostles;
-common celebration of divine worship, especially of the sacraments;- apostolic succession through the sacrament of Holy Orders, maintaining the fraternal concord of God’s family.266
[816](javascript
Jon
- Status