Does Our Lady of Guadeloupe Vigil Mass today count for Sunday obligation?

[phil19034]

I’m pretty sure I know the answer, but I want to make sure…

If someone attend attendes an Our Lady of Guadeloupe vigil mass tonight (Sunday, Dec 11th), does it still count as meeting our Sunday obligation? My thought is yes.

So just out of curiosity, since today is the 3rd Sunday of Advent, COULD a priest wear the Rose/Pink vestments while celebrating the Our Lady of Guadeloupe vigil mass, or must he still wear white?

Happy advent and God Bless!

 

[1ke]

First, the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe doesn’t have a Vigil Mass. But if it did, the Third Sunday of Advent outranks it.

Today, December 11, is the third Sunday in Advent, Sunday evening Mass is the Third Sunday in Advent, not the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe.

 

[phil19034]

First, the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe doesn’t have a Vigil Mass. But if it did, the Third Sunday of Advent outranks it.

Today, December 11, is the third Sunday in Advent, Sunday evening Mass is the Third Sunday in Advent, not the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe.

I should have said “anticipated Mass” instead of vigil.

Anyway, I know a parish that is having an anticipated Mass for Our Lady of Guadalupe tonight (or at least it’s being advertised as such).

I’m going to go to it tonight, so I guess I will find out then if they do the Sunday liturgy or not.

But back to the root of my question … Is the obligation simply that I attend mass on Sunday or attend a Sunday liturgy? If the priest does Monday’s liturgy on a Sunday night, does it still count for the Sunday obligation?

 

[twf]

First, the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe doesn’t have a Vigil Mass. But if it did, the Third Sunday of Advent outranks it.

Today, December 11, is the third Sunday in Advent, Sunday evening Mass is the Third Sunday in Advent, not the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe.

Perhaps if it is a solemnity for that particular parish? (A parish dedicated to Our Lady of Guadalupe) …or if the OP is in Mexico. Though I suppose even then a Sunday of Advent would outrank the solemnity. Odd.

 

[twf]

I should have said “anticipated Mass” instead of vigil.

Anyway, I know a parish that is having an anticipated Mass for Our Lady of Guadalupe tonight (or at least it’s being advertised as such).

I’m going to go to it tonight, so I guess I will find out then if they do the Sunday liturgy or not.

But back to the root of my question … Is the obligation simply that I attend mass on Sunday or attend a Sunday liturgy? If the priest does Monday’s liturgy on a Sunday night, does it still count for the Sunday obligation?

That sounds very odd - as the Third Sunday of Advent definitely outranks the feast. That being said, yes your obligation would be satisfied. You can satisfy your obligation by assisting at holy mass in any Catholic rite (as canon law words it) anytime between Saturday evening and Sunday night. That would include Eastern rite liturgies that use a completely different calendar…

 

[1ke]

I should have said “anticipated Mass” instead of vigil.

That doesn’t make any sense either. The Third Sunday of Advent should be celebrated today, regardless.

Anyway, I know a parish that is having an anticipated Mass for Our Lady of Guadalupe tonight (or at least it’s being advertised as such).

Don’t know what to say there.

But back to the root of my question … Is the obligation simply that I attend mass on Sunday or attend a Sunday liturgy? If the priest does Monday’s liturgy on a Sunday night, does it still count for the Sunday obligation?

Your obligation is to attend Mass on Sunday or the evening before, in any Catholic Rite.

 

[1ke]

Perhaps if it is a solemnity for that particular parish? (A parish dedicated to Our Lady of Guadalupe) …or if the OP is in Mexico. Though I suppose even then a Sunday of Advent would outrank the solemnity. Odd.

The OP is not in Mexico, he is in PA. But, even though a solemnity and HDO tomorrow in Mexico, the Third Sunday of Advent still outranks it tonight.

If it is the parish patron feast, Sundays of Advent outrank the solemnities of particular calendars.

So any way you slice it, it is the Third Sunday of Advent today.

 

[YADA]

I am traveling for my work and working this weekend …I am in the South East US …

I wasn’t able to get off early enough yesterday and missed this AM Mass …there is a 6:00 PM Spanish Mass tonight I will try to make … technically I am still at work at 6:00 but hope my boss let’s me off in time to make Mass

That Parish also has a Mass tonight at 10:00PM to celebrate the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe with a reception to follow …I am working 13 hours and have to get up very early … otherwise I might try to go to that Mass too- just to have the experience.

Blessings

 

[twf]

The OP is not in Mexico, he is in PA. But, even though a solemnity and HDO tomorrow in Mexico, the Third Sunday of Advent still outranks it tonight.

If it is the parish patron feast, Sundays of Advent outrank the solemnities of particular calendars.

So any way you slice it, it is the Third Sunday of Advent today.

As long as the official parish Mass of the day is the liturgy for the Third Sunday of Advent, would it be possible to celebrate a private (even if advertized) votive Mass for Guadalupe in the evening?

 

[porthos11]

As long as the official parish Mass of the day is the liturgy for the Third Sunday of Advent, would it be possible to celebrate a private (even if advertized) votive Mass for Guadalupe in the evening?

A votive Mass would be forbidden during a Sunday in Advent.

I’m pretty much with 1ke and the rest. It doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Pre_Rejected]

Any Mass you attend on Sunday fulfills your Sunday obligation.

 

[1ke]

As long as the official parish Mass of the day is the liturgy for the Third Sunday of Advent, would it be possible to celebrate a private (even if advertized) votive Mass for Guadalupe in the evening?

No.

 

[OraLabora]

A good rule of thumb is that if a feast or solemnity has first Vespers, then you can celebrate the Mass of the feast in the evening (or if it is a solemnity with a proper Vigil, the Vigil Mass of the solemnity).

If Our Lady of Guadeloupe was being celebrated as a solemnity because it was the patronal feast of a parish, normally it would have First Vespers. However Sundays in Advent outrank any solemnity that could fall in Advent, and no First Vespers would be celebrated this year as they would fall on the Sunday of Advent which takes precedence. By the same reasoning, any Sunday evening Mass should be that of the 2nd Sunday in Advent.

An example was last week: the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception fell on a Monday. There were no First Vespers this year as the 2nd Sunday of Advent outranked the solemnity, and instead Second Vespers of the 2nd Sunday in Advent was celebrated. Hence any evening Mass last week should have been of the Second Sunday in Advent, not the Immaculate Conception.

In the OP’s case, if the Mass of Our Lady of Guadeloupe is celebrated Sunday evening (this evening) then it is an error (please folks, don’t use the word “abuse”; to err is human).

 

[1ke]

An example was last week: the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception fell on a Monday. There were no First Vespers this year as the 2nd Sunday of Advent outranked the solemnity, and instead Second Vespers of the 2nd Sunday in Advent was celebrated. Hence any evening Mass last week should have been of the Second Sunday in Advent, not the Immaculate Conception.

IC was on Thursday last week, not Monday.

 

[Vico]

I’m pretty sure I know the answer, but I want to make sure…

If someone attend attendes an Our Lady of Guadeloupe vigil mass tonight (Sunday, Dec 11th), does it still count as meeting our Sunday obligation? My thought is yes.

So just out of curiosity, since today is the 3rd Sunday of Advent, COULD a priest wear the Rose/Pink vestments while celebrating the Our Lady of Guadeloupe vigil mass, or must he still wear white?

Happy advent and God Bless!

Yes, any Mass, all the way until 11:59:59 PM Sunday.

Our Lady of Guadeloupe is not a holy day of obligation and is a weekday Mass, so I think Sunday vestments prevail on Sunday.

 

[OraLabora]

IC was on Thursday last week, not Monday.

Ah you’re right. I was mixing it up with the solemnity of the dedication of our abbey church was on Monday. Sorry for the brain lapse.

Same thing though, no first Vespers for that solemnity as the 2nd Sunday of Advent took precedence.

 

[1ke]

A votive Mass would be forbidden during a Sunday in Advent.

I’m pretty much with 1ke and the rest. It doesn’t make any sense.

Right.

Tonight at my mom’s parish (I happen to be visiting this weekend and it’s primarily a Mexican immigrant parish now), 6 p.m. Sunday Mass had the matachines for the entrance procession, the altar for OLG was already set up, but the Mass was… 3rd Sunday of Advent. The 7:30 p.m. Spanish mass is… 3rd Sunday of Advent.

Tonight, they have a procession down the street in front of the church starting at 8:30, recitation of the apparitions and reflections, rosary and prayer until Midnight. OLG mass at midnight, all night serenade and vigil until the 5 a.m. Mass with mariachis and matachines plus two more masses tomorrow at noon and six p.m.

But tonight is 3rd Sunday of Advent.

 

[phil19034]

So to follow up on this… The mass tonight DID use the reading and liturgy for Our Lady of Guadeloupe.

I have no idea if the pastor received permission or if this was a simple mistake. But Sunday’s mass was not used

 

[FrDavid96]

So to follow up on this… The mass tonight DID use the reading and liturgy for Our Lady of Guadeloupe.

I have no idea if the pastor received permission or if this was a simple mistake. But Sunday’s mass was not used

That’s acceptable.

On the one hand, yes, the Advent Sunday outranks the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe (a Solemnity in Mexico, I think?)…

However, this kind of “overlapping” feasts isn’t anticipated in the calendar norms—meaning an evening Mass on Sunday when there’s a major feast on Monday. Therefore, it has to be resolved pastorally on the local level. A parish may celebrate a OLGuadalupe Mass on Sunday night this year (2016); likewise, a parish may celebrate Sunday night as a Mass of the 3rd Sunday of Advent.

The Congregation for Divine Worship addressed this in a Notice in 1974
Notitiae 10 (1974): 222–223 Here is a translation of the notice notitiae.ipsissima-verba.org/show/155 with a link to a PDF scan of the actual publication.

We read this in paragraph 4
4. Attentive circumstances of a pastoral nature, the practice to follow at the diocesan level should be indicated by the local Ordinary at the beginning of the year in the proper liturgical Calendar, even, if the case warrants, by derogating from what was said above when, for pastoral reasons, the celebration of one or the other Mass seems preferable.

That means that even if the calendar norms require a that the Sunday Mass be used on Sunday evening (which is what most posters have responded, and correctly) the local calendar may derogate from those norms to allow the Mass of OLGuadalupe on Sunday night.

 

[phil19034]

That’s acceptable.

On the one hand, yes, the Advent Sunday outranks the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe (a Solemnity in Mexico, I think?)…

However, this kind of “overlapping” feasts isn’t anticipated in the calendar norms—meaning an evening Mass on Sunday when there’s a major feast on Monday. Therefore, it has to be resolved pastorally on the local level. A parish may celebrate a OLGuadalupe Mass on Sunday night this year (2016); likewise, a parish may celebrate Sunday night as a Mass of the 3rd Sunday of Advent.

The Congregation for Divine Worship addressed this in a Notice in 1974
Notitiae 10 (1974): 222–223 Here is a translation of the notice notitiae.ipsissima-verba.org/show/155 with a link to a PDF scan of the actual publication.

We read this in paragraph 4
4. Attentive circumstances of a pastoral nature, the practice to follow at the diocesan level should be indicated by the local Ordinary at the beginning of the year in the proper liturgical Calendar, even, if the case warrants, by derogating from what was said above when, for pastoral reasons, the celebration of one or the other Mass seems preferable.

That means that even if the calendar norms require a that the Sunday Mass be used on Sunday evening (which is what most posters have responded, and correctly) the local calendar may derogate from those norms to allow the Mass of OLGuadalupe on Sunday night.

Thank you Father!!!