Does Papal bull = Ex Cathedra?

[Todd520]

The catechism is not infallible.

I think the catechism suffers the same fate as scripture:

• phrases pulled from context, honestly and with mischeve
• complex issues often lack simple answers
• man’s ability to interpret

 

[philipmarie]

Infallible pronouncements are infallible and can never be changed. This is a dogma of the faith pronounced in Pope Pius II’s Papal Bull Excerabilis. No Pope can teach anything foreign to Catholic Doctrine. There must be something wrong here, something seriously, wrong.

 

[mardukm]

I agree with the above reasoning. Salvation is from Christ the head through the Church however the Lateran Council, Unam Sanctam and the Council of Florence did not say what the Church says today. These councils took place from approximately 1200-1500 AD. At that time there were Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Eastern Orthodox Christians who were all condemned to eternal punishment because they were not in submission to the pope. If the Church back in that era had the gift of infallibility then those statements cannot be changed. If the Church is correct today, which I believe it is, then the Church was teaching error from 1200-1500 AD and probably before and after that time. The Church has always taught the necessity of baptism and confession for salvation. In the past there was no hope for the unbaptized or even those baptized outside the Church.

The statements of the Church then were mitigated by the doctrine of invincible ignorance, a doctrine that, it cannot be doubted, was upheld by the Scholastics. That is the same doctrine that guides the Church’s understanding of EENS today. This doctrine has been around since the OT, where it is shown that sins done willfully obtained a much greater penalty than sins that were not done willfully.

Fulgentius of Ruspe

"Anyone who receives the sacrament of baptism, whether in the Catholic Church or in a heretical or schismatic one, receives the whole sacrament; but salvation, which is the strength of the sacrament, he will not have, if he has had the sacrament outside the Catholic Church [and remains in **deliberate

schism]. He must therefore return to the Church, not so that he might receive again the sacrament of baptism, which no one dare repeat in any baptized person, but so that he may receive eternal life in Catholic society, for the obtaining of which no one is suited who, even with the sacrament of baptism, remains estranged from the Catholic Church" (The Rule of Faith 43 [A.D. 524]).
The quote supports the ancient doctrine of invincible ignorance.

Blessings

 

[ron77nyc]

The change in teaching goes beyond invincible ignorance.
The Church used to teach this:

Pope Leo XII (A.D. 1823 – 1829): “We profess that there is no salvation outside the Church. …For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: `If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother.’” (Encyclical, Ubi Primum )

Pope Gregory XVI (A.D. 1831 – 1846): “It is not possible to worship God truly except in Her; all who are outside Her will not be saved.” (Encyclical, Summo Jugiter )

The Church now teaches this:

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0512fea3.asp

(Karl Adam, The Spirit of Catholicism, 179). Those who do not know the Church, even those who fight against it, can receive these gifts if they honestly seek God and his truth. But, Adam says, “though it be not the Catholic Church itself that hands them the bread of truth and grace, yet it is Catholic bread that they eat.” And when they eat of it, “without knowing it or willing it” they are “incorporated in the supernatural substance of the Church.”

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324