Does Pat Roberson think he is God

[Good_Fella]

When did this Adam & Eve event happen exactly? Was it 6,000 years ago in a magical garden, where snakes could talk? Did god snap his holy fingers and poof, up from a pile of clay or dirt jumped some guy he named Adam, and then in his divine foresight figured Adam needed some female companionship?

Or is all this a metaphore for creation, beginning with the quantum fluctuation (or whatever it was that triggered the inflation we call the big bang), culminating with the random (but according to religionists mysteriously guided) creation of biological life by first creating simple oganisims in a primordian soup, then through a slow three billion year process, the creation of human beings through natural selection (a completely random process of trial and error that resulted in the extinction of over 99.9% of all species that have ever existed)?

Should I go with the volumes of scientific data, millions of pieces of fossil evidence, thousands of celestial observations proving the age of our universe, geological data that is irrefutable, data collected from our DNA that shows our common ancestory with other primates, etc.? Or should I believe a collection of handed down stories, taken from copies, of copies, of (you guessed it) yet more copies, of ancient scribble even biblical experts can’t agree on; for which not a drop of correborating evidence exists, which is so inconsistant it’s unimaginable to think an omnipotent and omniscient god could have created it.

But oh yeah, Paul warned you guys about people like me

It makes no difference whether Adam and Eve are historical figures or archtypes. The universal meaning behind the biblical narrative of their creation and fall remains.

What type of guys would that be? Cashew lovers?

Sure there’s that’s one option; OR the primative illiterate (or semi-literate) desert nomads who came up with this stuff just wrote a stupid story? I’m going with option B

How can a person who writes a story be illiterate or semi-illiterate? Personally, I think you’re afraid of the truth of this story. The idea of being held accountable for one’s actions before a sovereign judge of a higher order of being can be somewhat unnerving. Or maybe the idea of being held accountable for all your actions injures your ego.

I don’t feel wounded. Little factoid, during the first century period where Christianity grew up, about 75% of all people were slaves. And you can see the fingerprints of a slave mentality all over this religion. We’re poor, wounded, sinners, who lack any power over our circumstances, bla, bla, bla. It’s pathetic.

It’s either that, or natural selection hasn’t been as effective as we might have liked (and it made us mortal), and perhaps any further advancements in our biology will have to be accomplished through technological developments. With regard to natural disasters like earthquakes, there’s always the fact that continents shift, and sometimes the thin crust of our cooling planet releases energy that creates seismic waves

You own that there is a need to further advance our biological make-up by technological means, but at the same time you don’t feel that you possess a wounded or defective human nature. Or do you think you are more superior to human beings, an exception to the universal rule?

By dying to our old self, the Adam in us, and being reborn in the Spirit, we are no longer slaves.

man, do you seriously believe this stuff

Of course. If you don’t, that’s too bad. You’ll see the truth after you pass through death’s door. I pray you are prepared to meet your Creator.

Or he could have created us as superbeings who never die and don’t sin? But in his vast mercy he created us as a bunch of pathetic slaves who can’t even resist the impulse to sin constantly.

Pre-programmed robots cannot authentically love.

That’s sure a bunch of guilt to lay on one dude (who as it turns out couldn’t have really existed anyway).

The human race isn’t a single person. The name Adam means mankind.

ummm, I won’t say it (I’m already digging a hole here as it is).

It’s time to climb the ladder and get out of the hole you at least own you’ve dug for yourself.

PAX

 

[Sushi]

http://photos.upi.com/topics-Pat-Robertson/0fee892c4e55e73239eac215d0cbdad3/P.jpg

this man is not God

You’ve got that right. This man is nothing close to God. God would never say the ignorant things this man says.

 

[bridgeforsale]

It’s time to climb the ladder and get out of the hole you at least own you’ve dug for yourself.

PAX

Nahh … religion is just too absurd for me

 

[Good_Fella]

Come now, let’s not needlessly slander Nietzsche (I think Hitler probably quoted John Chrysostom just as much as he did Nietzsche … but anyway). In fairness, anyone whose truly familiar with Nietzsche (and any good Catholic scholar will admit this in a minute) knows Nietzsche hated bigotry (even ending his friendship with Wagner because of his extreme bigotry).

Adolph Hitler was influenced by the atheistic ideals of the philosopher or at least shared the latter’s ideals. In any event, the Nazi leader believed himself to be the fulfilment of Nietzsche’s prophetic “superman”. It is irrelevant whether the philospher was a racist or a bigot like the fascist leader, or that he would condemn the latter’s crimes and injustice. Perhaps he would have approved and was not exaggerating (see below). The point is that Hitler typified Nietsche’s vision of the ideal man. Nietzsche’s expression “Lords of the earth” is used by Hitler in his work Mein Kempf. So obviously an influence by Nietzsche inspired Hitler.

*"A daring and ruler race is building itself up…The aim should be to prepare a transvaluation of values for a particularly strong kind of man, most highly gifted in intellect and will. This man and the elite around him will become the “lords of the earth.”

“The strong men, the masters, regain the pure conscience of a beast of prey; monsters filled with joy, they can return from a fearful succession of murder, arson, rape, and torture with the same joy in their hearts, the same contentment in their souls as if they had indulged in some students rag… When a man is capable of commanding, when he is by nature a “Master,” when he is violent in act and gesture, of what importance are treaties to him?..To judge morality properly, it must be replaced by two concepts borrowed from zoology: the taming of a beast and the breeding of a specific species.”*

Friedrich Nietzsche
From The Will to Power

The superman is rightfully above the conventional or traditional morals of a civilization and not subject to the dictates of his conscience which he is expected to subdue and master. Nietzsche was a nihilist whose amoral philosophy wields a great influence on modern day libertines who reject traditional Christian values. Hence, there is no sanctity in marriage or in human life for these people. Divorce continues to rise and abortion on demand is on the increase.

 

[Good_Fella]

Oh man, not the Virgin Mary sighting routine

Mary is the star of the sea, a beacon of light, who serves to guide us wayfarers safely into port.

Are we offending god less today? What about Japan who doesn’t believe in god, they’ve done remarkably well over the last several decades, and what about China? I guess consistency is too much to ask for (but of course you can address the consistency problem by simply saying god’s plan is a mystery, or something to that effect, which means we have no way to measure natural disasters, wars, famine, poverty, or the like against any particular divine intention).

The world as a whole is offending God. Let’s not isolate single nations. All countries go through* the best of times and the worst of times*.

I don’t doubt some sort of solar event did happen over Portugal that day (but of course solar events happen all the time, in varying degrees of severity, and solar activity is cyclical). A “solar cycle” is eleven years. During these cyclic periods there’s substantial modulation of solar flares, coronal mass ejections, and other geoeffective solar eruptive phenomena (link here). While I’m not a expert on solar activity (and therefore I’m not going to try and offer a dogmatic alternate explanation); I sure the event was the result of natural phenomena (and not a manifestation of divine power or divine anything).

Can a thirteen year old girl predict the exact hour of a natural solar phenomenon? Do these solar phenomena cure the blind and heal the lame? Do they dry peoples clothes (70,000,000+ outfits) and the earth in a matter of seconds after it had been raining all night and all morning until noon when the miracle occurred. Do they dance and whirl in the sky and come hurling down at you? :dts:

I have a question, why is it that god only seems to appear in desert or southern climates?

Ask God.

 

[bridgeforsale]

Adolph Hitler was influenced by the atheistic ideals of the philosopher or at least shared the latter’s ideals. In any event, the Nazi leader believed himself to be the fulfilment of Nietzsche’s prophetic “superman”. It is irrelevant whether the philospher was a racist or a bigot like the fascist leader, or that he would condemn the latter’s crimes and injustice. Perhaps he would have approved and was not exaggerating (see below). The point is that Hitler typified Nietsche’s vision of the ideal man. Nietzsche’s expression “Lords of the earth” is used by Hitler in his work Mein Kempf. So obviously an influence by Nietzsche inspired Hitler.

*"A daring and ruler race is building itself up…The aim should be to prepare a transvaluation of values for a particularly strong kind of man, most highly gifted in intellect and will. This man and the elite around him will become the “lords of the earth.”

“The strong men, the masters, regain the pure conscience of a beast of prey; monsters filled with joy, they can return from a fearful succession of murder, arson, rape, and torture with the same joy in their hearts, the same contentment in their souls as if they had indulged in some students rag… When a man is capable of commanding, when he is by nature a “Master,” when he is violent in act and gesture, of what importance are treaties to him?..To judge morality properly, it must be replaced by two concepts borrowed from zoology: the taming of a beast and the breeding of a specific species.”*

Friedrich Nietzsche
From The Will to Power

The superman is rightfully above the conventional or traditional morals of a civilization and not subject to the dictates of his conscience which he is expected to subdue and master. Nietzsche was a nihilist whose amoral philosophy wields a great influence on modern day libertines who reject traditional Christian values. Hence, there is no sanctity in marriage or in human life for these people. Divorce continues to rise and abortion on demand is on the increase.

Indeed, the strong should eat the weak. And marriage you say … what a bore (I’m a huge advocate of multiple girlfriends). With regard to abortion, it’s far too underutilized in our society (and world wide). I wonder if we can put the abortion pill in the water supply?

But seriously … I wouldn’t expect you to understand Nietzsche (he’s a very difficult philosopher to understand; and perhaps the most misunderstood philosopher of them all). In reality Nietzsche is a softy (far too soft for my taste).

 

[bridgeforsale]

Mary is the star of the sea, a beacon of light, who serves to guide us wayfarers safely into port.

Oh wait … there she is on the tree in my yard (I’m gonna try to get some footage, and put it on youtube; if I have luck I’ll post the link).

 

[Good_Fella]

Nietzsche (since you brought him up) once said southern Europeans have a greater penchant for religion, I would also add middle easterners and Indians into that group. Why don’t we see many god sightings in Scandinavia or China (in fact none I can think of off the top of my head)? This sort of stuff only happens in places already predisposed to believing bizarre things. Not a conclusive fact, rather just another relevant fact on the pile.

St. Bridget of Sweden is among the Catholic Church’s great mystics who have received private revelations from God through Jesus and Mary.

China is an atheistic country. Even the obscure Catholic Church there is a part of the national apparatus. But we mustn’t presume that the Blessed Virgin Mary will never appear to a devout Catholic in China. Perhaps she will when the tension between the Church and the state tightens its grip as was the case in Portugal and in France when our Lady appeared to St. Bernadette at Lourdes. But Portugal and France are traditionally Catholic countries. The majority of the population is baptized Catholic. The saint’s body still lies in state miraculously uncorrupted by death, in any event. Modern science has no explanation. It is completely baffled, for the phenomenon is of the supernatural order. Science is a tool which can only be applied to the physical order of existence.

The Blessed Virgin Mary appeared to Sister Agnes at Akita, Japan. God reveals himself privately to those who believe in him regardless of where they live.

Nietzsche is generalizing here, just as he does where he says Germans destroy culture. By the way, Nietzsche vainly and earnestly tried to comprehend the incomprehensible. As a result, he died from a fit of insanity. He learned the hard way that man has no hope of ever replacing God with himself. Karl Marx, in his vanity and ignorance, inspired the death of tens of millions of people with the spread of radical socialism and communism in the world during the Cold War era.

Then the Lord God said, “See! the man has become like one of us, knowing what is good and what is bad! Therefore, he must not be allowed to put out his hand to take fruit from the tree of life also, and thus eat of it and live forever.”
Genesis 3, 22

Mary Shelly must have had this verse in mind when she wrote Frankenstein. The Book of Genesis wasn’t written by a “stupid nomad.” Nor was Shelly “illiterate” or “semi-literate”.

PAX :heaven:

 

[bridgeforsale]

St. Bridget of Sweden is among the Catholic Church’s great mystics who have received private revelations from God through Jesus and Mary.

China is an atheistic country. Even the obscure Catholic Church there is a part of the national apparatus. But we mustn’t presume that the Blessed Virgin Mary will never appear to a devout Catholic in China.

Yeah, you’re bound to pick up a Swede or two and even a few million Chinese; it’s a numbers game. It only goes to show, the gullible exist everywhere.

Perhaps she will when the tension between the Church and the state tightens its grip as was the case in Portugal and in France when our Lady appeared to St. Bernadette at Lourdes.

Oh golly here we go. How’s this any different than Pat Robertson inferring the Haitans got what was coming to them for playing with voodoo dolls?

It could have simply been that Nietzsche had brain cancer (like most believe)

Mary Shelly must have had this verse in mind when she wrote Frankenstein. The Book of Genesis wasn’t written by a “stupid nomad.” Nor was Shelly “illiterate” or “semi-literate”.

PAX :heaven:

Not only a stupid nomad, you forgot … stupid desert nomad

 

[Teneas]

Bridgeforsale, I see you have regressed back into old ways. You were able to speak without using your a** for awhile there. Sorry to see you slip again my friend. I had hopes for ya.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

Bridgeforsale, I see you have regressed back into old ways. You were able to speak without using your a** for awhile there. Sorry to see you slip again my friend. I had hopes for ya.

lol funny.

 

[Young_Thinker]

I think that Mr. Robinson(I forgot, is he formally a clergyman?) was insinuating that the earthquake was a punishment for their voodoo(which, of course, had been re-popularized by “Papa Doc”), not mention the Satanic pact which the Haitian leaders allegedly made in order to gain independence from France.

 

[bridgeforsale]

Bridgeforsale, I see you have regressed back into old ways. You were able to speak without using your a** for awhile there. Sorry to see you slip again my friend. I had hopes for ya.

I just like to have fun with this thing once in a while; and crumpling up, destroying, and ridiculing stupid arguments and statements. It’s either this or the other favorite atheist pastime (cannibalism)

 

[bridgeforsale]

I think that Mr. Robinson(I forgot, is he formally a clergyman?) was insinuating that the earthquake was a punishment for their voodoo(which, of course, had been re-popularized by “Papa Doc”), not mention the Satanic pact which the Haitian leaders allegedly made in order to gain independence from France.

It was really punishment for building a big, over populated city right on a fault line; without giving a second thought to building codes that enforce modern construction standards (that could have prevented what is now the most massive human catastrophe I’ve ever seen). There’s literally millions of people homeless who must be housed in tents (that have yet to arrive); and their hurricane season starts in a few months (when those tents will probably be destroyed).

The scale of this thing is unimaginable.

 

[Young_Thinker]

Indeed, but I am also talking about his apparent perspective upon the catastrophe.

It was really punishment for building a big, over populated city right on a fault line; without giving a second thought to building codes that enforce modern construction standards (that could have prevented what is now the most massive human catastrophe I’ve ever seen). There’s literally millions of people homeless who must be housed in tents (that have yet to arrive); and their hurricane season starts in a few months (when those tents will probably be destroyed).

The scale of this thing is unimaginable.

 

[Good_Fella]

Oh wait … there she is on the tree in my yard (I’m gonna try to get some footage, and put it on youtube; if I have luck I’ll post the link).

Let us know when she appears inside one of your cans of cashew nuts. Of course, we’d never believe you. We aren’t as gullible as you think.

 

[bridgeforsale]

Indeed, but I am also talking about his apparent perspective upon the catastrophe.

I was just saying what the real cause was, as for old Pat Robertson, maybe all people his age are bizarre… I don’t know (if that’s the case, I guess we have to sort of put up with it until the old man’s kicks the bucket). If old age isn’t a valid excuse, then, well I guess we’d still sort of have to put with it

As far as I know being a babbling old man isn’t illegal

 

[bridgeforsale]

Let us know when she appears inside one of your cans of cashew nuts. Of course, we’d never believe you. We aren’t as gullible as you think.

yeah, but if I claimed it how could you prove me wrong?

 

[Good_Fella]

Indeed, the strong should eat the weak. And marriage you say … what a bore (I’m a huge advocate of multiple girlfriends). With regard to abortion, it’s far too underutilized in our society (and world wide). I wonder if we can put the abortion pill in the water supply?

You remind me of the intellectual hedonist Lord Henry Wotton in Oscar Wilde’s story The Picture of Dorian Gray.

But seriously … I wouldn’t expect you to understand Nietzsche (he’s a very difficult philosopher to understand; and perhaps the most misunderstood philosopher of them all). In reality Nietzsche is a softy (far too soft for my taste).

It’s very hard for anyone to understand anybody who isn’t sure himself what he is talking about. By the way, Nietzsche’s vision of the Superman bears a description of the coming anti-Christ as prophesied by Daniel and spoken of by the apostle St.Paul as the lawless one; that is the one who places himself above the law of love and freedom and rejects God’s grace and His commandments. Nietzsche honours such a man.

Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.
Proverbs 26, 12

 

[bridgeforsale]

You remind me of the intellectual hedonist Lord Henry Wotton in Oscar Wilde’s story The Picture of Dorian Gray.

It’s very hard for anyone to understand anybody who isn’t sure himself what he is talking about. By the way, Nietzsche’s vision of the Superman bears a description of the coming anti-Christ as prophesied by Daniel and spoken of by the apostle St.Paul as the lawless one; that is the one who places himself above the law of love and freedom and rejects God’s grace and His commandments. Nietzsche honours such a man.

Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.
Proverbs 26, 12

And what fun would religion be if it didn’t offer all sorts of irrational things to be paranoid about

The coming anti-Christ is one of my favorites (Nietzsche loved to ridicule it as well). But I’m afraid you don’t understand his concept of the superman even remotely (again, you’re views of Nietzsche are obviously not taken from actually reading his work, they’re taken from Christian nonsense you’ve probably read on the internet written by someone who probably earned his college degree on the internet, or rumors you heard at your local Catholic club meeting, or wherever … the point is it comes from everywhere except where it should come from, which is of course formal study or at least reading it for yourself).

If it weren’t for people like you, how after all could politicians so easily manipulate public opinion